News Upscale Walt Disney World experiences packaged under the new 'Crown Collection by Disney'

[LuvWDW2]

@Marcus Cade

How many in your party? I’ve always gotten FoP for day 3 and beyond. I’ve gotten it in the evening on my arrival day (I travel in the summer and Presidents Day, so hardly off season). Slinky, however, is a whole other thing.

As for who will replace you at Pop, moderate loyalists who are priced out. Heck, I’m a deluxe gal and I love Pop and stay there frequently.

I’m sorry Disney currently doesn’t work for you. I get it. I just took a 5.5 year hiatus to see other places after being frustrated by higher prices and little expansion. And after SW:GE, I plan on taking another couple years off. If you love it, you’ll be back. If you don’t, you won’t. And that’s ok too. It’s your hard earned money. Spend it where it brings joy not headaches.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Half the population of the U.S. earns $30,000 or less a year. The poverty line for a family of 4 is $25,100. So, clearly when you say "we are not wealthy by any means" all that is saying is that you are not part of the elite 1%. However, knowing the cost of all those things you mentioned (DVC, V&A chef table, and spa services) on TOP of park tickets/passes, souvenirs, and dining (on nights you don't go to V&A), trust me. You have money. Way more than half the people in the U.S. Maybe more than 2/3rds....or even 3/4ths.

Growing up, my family was very strictly middle class, and we couldn't afford a Disney vacation. This was back in the early 70's when WDW first opened. People talking about how it used to be for everyone, are simply smoking nostalgia, and not reality. I started going in 1978 not because I could afford to go, but because I was living in Orlando. If I wasn't living there, I could never have afforded to go there at that time. I've been working for over 40 years, and make a better wage now, so can afford some of the finer things in life. Can I afford a house in Golden Oak - heavens no. We don't make anywhere near enough for something like that. We pay cash for every trip - never charge - but we have to save just like anyone else who wishes to go there.

As far as "not one single item is new" that is only technically true in that nothing previously unannounced was revealed on the Crown web page (yet). However, several of the offerings are new in that they just were opened/announced within the past few years such as Club 33 at multiple parks in Disney World, more Delicious Disney dining events starting in 2016 and ramping up further in 2017, as well as Disney's Riviera Resort (which Disney has decided to bar access for anyone who buys a resale DVC membership...you know...someone who is a Disney fan but really doesn't have a lot of money.) which won't open until fall.

Hmm, so something that was announced over 3 years ago is still "new"? Yes, Club 33 is new, and that will only appeal to a VERY limited clientele - just like Walt's Club 33 in Disneyland. Unless we win the lottery, it's not something we could ever afford. Umm, and you have been fed misinformation about Riviera. People you buy resale at Riviera will have the 11 month booking window as owners at that resort, just like someone who has bought direct from Disney at Riviera. I will be the FIRST to state that DVC is NOT for everyone. It is a luxury item, and no one should ever expect to get anything out of it except reduced costs on resort stays during the life of the contract. Nothing more, nothing less.

The point of what many are saying is not, "Hey, we don't want people with money to have special things to enjoy spending it on!" What we are saying is that Disney's constant focus of late is on promoting, enhancing and creating elite offerings at the expense of the formerly free or lower-cost extras, and it's quite distasteful.

Please tell us what free or lower-cost extras are now considered "elite only" items?

1. If Disney decides they want to hold special parties in the evenings that patrons must pay for in addition to their park ticket, that is fine. But continue to offer EMH at the parks that are not having a party that night so that lower income "guests" have something fun to do. The fancy pants party can keep their $100 soft-serve ice cream and popcorn (the one I get refilled in my popcorn bucket for $2). But don't just eliminate the evening EMH.

I completely agree with you in that the current morning AND evening EMH should continue for all time. No argument there at all. We don't think the After Hours are worth the money either.

2. If people want to buy DVC from an owner, then let them have all the rights of a DVC owner who bought direct from Disney. If you think resale buyers aren't paying enough then exercise your right of first refusal. Otherwise, shut up and quit restricting their enjoyment of a service that puts them in your compound in which you are almost guaranteed they will spend hundreds more on food and fun. Besides, you already got your money from the original owner. Move on.

Well, DVD makes the rules, and they are very upfront about them. If you bought resale up until 2011, you had the same rights as the original owners. Since then, they have tried to make buying direct a bigger perk than the money, with a few extras that can ALL go away whenever they want. When you consider that you can save thousands by buying resale, and what you can mostly save money wise is on APs (only $100 each), it takes years and years to break even on that purchase.

What "restriction" do you think is causing them to enjoy the savings on their resort room any less than those of us who bought direct? Please remember - the ONLY thing guaranteed - even to us direct owners - is that we will save money on our resort costs. NOTHING else is guaranteed, and can go away in a heartbeat at their discretion. NEVER buy into DVC for ANY perks. That is not the reason to buy at all. It is NOT an investment. As I said, it is a luxury purchase.

3. If people want to pay hundreds of dollars so they can ride Avatar 6 times in a row, let them. But why does Disney have to charge me a parking fee on top of my room charge when I stay at the All-Star resort? I clearly am on a budget if I'm staying here. Get your money from the people who are begging you to take it. They aren't going to be staying at the All-star anyway. So, go find them at the Deluxe resorts and find new and interesting ways of swindling them out of their money, but let the rest of us enjoy Disney the way we have in the past.

Why in heavens name would you ever want to drive while at Disney? Don't you drive enough at home? You're on vacation. You get Magical Express from the airport - which we use EVERY trip - and then buses, boats, and monorails while on property. There certainly isn't ANY reason to have to pay for parking.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

That's the point. This is just a cash-cow that is going to be milked till it's dry (a few years after the 50 year anniversary and SWL newness has worn off) and then it will be left to rot. That's not a good business plan. Much like the "not my problem" approach of 50+ year old manufacturing CEOs that pour outrageous amounts of pollution and toxic waste into the water, soil, and air. They are getting their money and won't be (or hope not to be) around for the disastrous results.

The DVC resorts actually operate at near 100% year round. The next resort to be built is NOT exclusively DVC, but a combination of DVC and regular resort. They need the extra rooms, because any hotel operator will tell you that if they are at 90% occupancy, then they don't have enough rooms. There are always rooms that are out for maintenance or upgrades, just like at Disney.

And what in the heck does manufacturing CEOs pouring pollution and toxic waste into water, air, or soil have ANYTHING to do with Disney? Are you just ticked off at the world?

 

[LuvtheGoof]

I'm more concerned about the rise in ticket prices, I would think that would be a bigger concern of lower income visitors way more than the Chef's table at V&A.

Exactly. Being DVC, we buy APs every year, but we don't like the rise in prices any more than anyone else does. But, if we want to go to Disney, we pay the price. People make a choice on what they want to spend their money on. Some go skiing. Some go to the beach. Some go to Europe or Mexico or the Bahamas. We choose to go to Disney, and pay the price. We don't ski, and going to the beach bores me to tears in a few hours.

 

[networkpro]

That's the point. This is just a cash-cow that is going to be milked till it's dry (a few years after the 50 year anniversary and SWL newness has worn off) and then it will be left to rot. That's not a good business plan. Much like the "not my problem" approach of 50+ year old manufacturing CEOs that pour outrageous amounts of pollution and toxic waste into the water, soil, and air. They are getting their money and won't be (or hope not to be) around for the disastrous results.

Tired ad hominem attempt. Disney is a publicly traded company which made a significant investment in its new offerings. By your assertions they shouldn't be able to seek any remuneration because it might not be affordable to everyone.

Marketing exists to instill the belief that the goods a company produce are a necessity, are scarce, and are essential. Market forces apply, your feels do not.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Again, you could be absolutely right. let me just say, we've been predicting the downfall of the mouseworld for a while and yet here we are. I look at it like the stock market, lol past performance is not a prediction of future performance.

Yup. Some people confuse "I DON'T LIKE THIS!!!" with "THIS WILL BE DISNEY'S DOWNFALL!!"

As you point out, so far those shouting that the sky is falling or JUST ABOUT to fall have always been wrong. Doesn't mean that it CAN'T happen... but I sincerely doubt providing higher end offerings to those who can afford it and want to buy them will be Disney's downfall.

 

[prberk]

Please tell us what free or lower-cost extras are now considered "elite only" items?

I completely agree with you in that the current morning AND evening EMH should continue for all time. No argument there at all. We don't think the After Hours are worth the money either.

In the '70s and '80s and I believe a good portion of the '90s, the parks were open late for everyone on many days -- essentially whenever it was at least a moderately busy season. It was nothing for MK to be open until midnight most every night of the summer. You did not have to be a resort guest or pay another $125 to be there late, to enjoy your vacation place in the cool of the evening.

Same with EPCOT Center. It was usually open until at least 10, and sometimes 11.

You could also go to the 15th floor of the Contemporary and walk out on the observation deck without a reservation at the restaurant at the top. That, by the way, was my favorite spot -- and I loved to visit it from time to time on my vacation, just taking in the view. But now I can't go there during the day, and I can't go at night without paying $50+ for dinner, even if I am a Contemporary guest or have had dinner there earlier in the week.

It's the simple things that I miss the most, the "quiet times" that I looked forward to the most, that I am now not allowed to enjoy unless I pay even more than I already am... and be cattle-prodded along the way. And believe me, I was already a good customer.

 

[Naplesgolfer]

In the '70s and '80s and I believe a good portion of the '90s, the parks were open late for everyone on many days -- essentially whenever it was at least a moderately busy season. It was nothing for MK to be open until midnight most every night of the summer. You did not have to be a resort guest or pay another $125 to be there late, to enjoy your vacation place in the cool of the evening.

Same with EPCOT Center. It was usually open until at least 10, and sometimes 11.

You could also go to the 15th floor of the Contemporary and walk out on the observation deck without a reservation at the restaurant at the top. That, by the way, was my favorite spot -- and I loved to visit it from time to time on my vacation, just taking in the view. But now I can't go there during the day, and I can't go at night without paying $50+ for dinner, even if I am a Contemporary guest or have had dinner there earlier in the week.

It's the simple things that I miss the most, the "quiet times" that I looked forward to the most, that I am now not allowed to enjoy unless I pay even more than I already am... and be cattle-prodded along the way. And believe me, I was already a good customer.

I agree and sympathize with your sentiments on park hours but surely you recognize the problems mobs of people with no dining reservation create for the staff at the Cali grill.

 

[prberk]

I agree and sympathize with your sentiments on park hours but surely you recognize the problems mobs of people with no dining reservation create for the staff at the Cali grill.

In my experience, it never was mobs of people. Maybe a few extra at fireworks times, but even then I never witnessed the number of people in the viewing area to be extreme. Plenty of room to walk.

Most people didn't know about it unless they stayed there, and even those were not always going to explore it.

The daytime restriction is especially silly. If I am paying umpteen hundreds of dollars to stay at your resort, you would think you would allow me to explore the resort's beautiful places in daylight. There are many times I have come to the Contemporary marina to rent a "sprite" boat (at $30+ per half hour, usually with a friend or two) and then wanted to show them the cool view from the top before going back to a park. But now that is not allowed, Contemporary guest or not.

 

[Naplesgolfer]

Most people didn't know about it unless they stayed there, and even those were not always going to explore it.

IMHO the amount WDW social media, forums and blogs have made a much wider group of people aware of the great views at CALI grill.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

In the '70s and '80s and I believe a good portion of the '90s, the parks were open late for everyone on many days -- essentially whenever it was at least a moderately busy season. It was nothing for MK to be open until midnight most every night of the summer. You did not have to be a resort guest or pay another $125 to be there late, to enjoy your vacation place in the cool of the evening.

Same with EPCOT Center. It was usually open until at least 10, and sometimes 11.

You could also go to the 15th floor of the Contemporary and walk out on the observation deck without a reservation at the restaurant at the top. That, by the way, was my favorite spot -- and I loved to visit it from time to time on my vacation, just taking in the view. But now I can't go there during the day, and I can't go at night without paying $50+ for dinner, even if I am a Contemporary guest or have had dinner there earlier in the week.

It's the simple things that I miss the most, the "quiet times" that I looked forward to the most, that I am now not allowed to enjoy unless I pay even more than I already am... and be cattle-prodded along the way. And believe me, I was already a good customer.

I certainly agree with you about the quiet times. The problem is both social media and of course, a LOT more people that go to WDW. They estimate that over 50,000,000 people visit the resort now, compared to 10,000,000 back in the 70's when I first started going. And people blast out everything on social media that ends up ruining it for everyone, because now everyone knows about that quiet spot, and it's no longer quiet.

I thought that you could still go to the bar at the Cali Grill without a reservation. Has that changed? It used to be that all you had to do was show your receipt later to go up for fireworks viewing. We always go to the Top of the World lounge now, so not sure if this is still something that you can do, but I know we did it in years past.

In looking at the calendar for this month, MK is open until midnight almost every night for the next few weeks. Guess just for Easter and Spring Break. I also remember it being open much later, but as I've gotten older, we prefer relaxing at the resort in the evening, and then being at rope drop for whichever park we are headed to that next day. I know that some of the reason is to save money on CMs, but I also think that it has partially to do with maintenance of the parks. When they were new, it was easy to stay open until 1AM and then open again at 8AM. Now with MK being almost 50 years old, it takes longer at night to perform needed maintenance - and I don't just mean cleaning the streets and sidewalks, as those haven't really changed all that much.

 

[prberk]

I certainly agree with you about the quiet times. The problem is both social media and of course, a LOT more people that go to WDW. They estimate that over 50,000,000 people visit the resort now, compared to 10,000,000 back in the 70's when I first started going. And people blast out everything on social media that ends up ruining it for everyone, because now everyone knows about that quiet spot, and it's no longer quiet.

I thought that you could still go to the bar at the Cali Grill without a reservation. Has that changed? It used to be that all you had to do was show your receipt later to go up for fireworks viewing. We always go to the Top of the World lounge now, so not sure if this is still something that you can do, but I know we did it in years past.

In looking at the calendar for this month, MK is open until midnight almost every night for the next few weeks. Guess just for Easter and Spring Break. I also remember it being open much later, but as I've gotten older, we prefer relaxing at the resort in the evening, and then being at rope drop for whichever park we are headed to that next day. I know that some of the reason is to save money on CMs, but I also think that it has partially to do with maintenance of the parks. When they were new, it was easy to stay open until 1AM and then open again at 8AM. Now with MK being almost 50 years old, it takes longer at night to perform needed maintenance - and I don't just mean cleaning the streets and sidewalks, as those haven't really changed all that much.

I was told the last time I was there that you could not go to the California Grill without a reservation; and the elevator would not take you there without signing in to go there. So, even early in the day I was locked out of the 15th floor. Fireworks or no fireworks. And I was never really worried about the fireworks.

As for the MK hours, most of the trade-off in times has been for Extra Magic Hours or now Disney After Hours. The park, at $130/day, on a summer day should never close at 9 p.m., or especially 7 p.m. on the party nights at other times. This is not only true of summer. In the past the Christmas parade ran during the day (for more than just Christmas week), and the parks were open late enough to enjoy the lights and sounds for a good while. Now they save all of that your second admission after 7 p.m. for the "party."

They have also made it harder to explore the resort as a whole (WDW I mean, not the Contemporary itself). It used to be nice to go visit the other resorts or explore the water and beaches. Now it is hard to drive in to any of them without a reservation.

 

[David copperfield]

Wow, it's stoopid for me to post anything in these discussions, yet...when did going on vacation become a political decision, a moral or ethical judgement?

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Also, I remember the gloriously uncrowded WDW of 1973. This country' s population was just over 200 million then, and international flights were still only for the very rich. Now there are over 330 million of us here in the US, and international travel is practically old hat. Kinda stands to reason visitor numbers have ballooned beyond anything 'Uncle Walt' -any of us -- imagined.

 

[The Mom]

Wow, it's stoopid for me to post anything in these discussions, yet...when did going on vacation become a political decision, a moral or ethical judgement?

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Also, I remember the gloriously uncrowded WDW of 1973. This country' s population was just over 200 million then, and international flights were still only for the very rich. Now there are over 330 million of us here in the US, and international travel is practically old hat. Kinda stands to reason visitor numbers have ballooned beyond anything 'Uncle Walt' -any of us -- imagined.

Even domestic flights are cheaper; most families in the 70s would drive, not fly.

The only hotels at WDW were the Contemporary, Polynesian, Tree House Resort, Fort Wilderness, and Disney Inn. I remember how excited I was when the first "value" hotel opened in the 80s - Carribean Beach Resort. It was the first time I could afford to stay on property. Then more "value" resorts were built, and the former value resorts were upgraded to "moderate."

I bumped up to the Disney Inn when I could get a special rate, and splurged at the other deluxe hotels when I could call the front desk and get a good "day of" rate - I live in FL, and would call and ask, "What is the best rate you can give me if I arrive in 4 hours?" Those days are long gone.

 

[prberk]

Even domestic flights are cheaper; most families in the 70s would drive, not fly.

The only hotels at WDW were the Contemporary, Polynesian, Tree House Resort, Fort Wilderness, and Disney Inn. I remember how excited I was when the first "value" hotel opened in the 80s - Carribean Beach Resort. It was the first time I could afford to stay on property. Then more "value" resorts were built, and the former value resorts were upgraded to "moderate."

I bumped up to the Disney Inn when I could get a special rate, and splurged at the other deluxe hotels when I could call the front desk and get a good "day of" rate - I live in FL, and would call and ask, "What is the best rate you can give me if I arrive in 4 hours?" Those days are long gone.

Awesome memories. I remember all of that. And you are right to point out that the "moderates" were built as "value" resorts at the time -- until, I guess, they figured that they could raise those prices and build even cheaper hotels to be "values" and raise the price to the others.

I still think of the Contemporary as the true gem in my eyes. If money were not an object, I would almost always stay there (except maybe the Wilderness Lodge).

 

[VaderTron]

Please tell us what free or lower-cost extras are now considered "elite only" items?

This v v v

I completely agree with you in that the current morning AND evening EMH should continue for all time. No argument there at all. We don't think the After Hours are worth the money either.

Evening EMH was a free (lower-cost if you consider the additional cost of staying on-site...room for your viewpoint in there) extra that came with staying in a Disney hotel. For those who planned well they could look ahead on the park calendar several months to see what nights were being offered where and plan their stay accordingly. Now they are changing nighttime (one of my favorite EMH times) to an elite pay-to-party event time instead of EMH.

Well, DVD makes the rules, and they are very upfront about them. If you bought resale up until 2011, you had the same rights as the original owners. Since then, they have tried to make buying direct a bigger perk than the money, with a few extras that can ALL go away whenever they want. When you consider that you can save thousands by buying resale, and what you can mostly save money wise is on APs (only $100 each), it takes years and years to break even on that purchase.

What "restriction" do you think is causing them to enjoy the savings on their resort room any less than those of us who bought direct? Please remember - the ONLY thing guaranteed - even to us direct owners - is that we will save money on our resort costs. NOTHING else is guaranteed, and can go away in a heartbeat at their discretion. NEVER buy into DVC for ANY perks. That is not the reason to buy at all. It is NOT an investment. As I said, it is a luxury purchase.

I didn't suggest the rules were hidden in an attempt to be deceitful. DVD is very up front about their greed when it comes to discouraging resales and trying to funnel everyone to direct purchase.

The restriction I already made clear. New resale buyers are no longer able to use points on any future DVC resort starting with Riviera. That is an unnecessarily greedy restriction. To say, "Yes, you will pay us the same dues as everyone else at your resort. We won't alter that. But because you chose a resale that we were unwilling to buy back instead of paying us 5-10 times the price that DVC owners paid us in the past, we are going to tell you that you can only use your points at some of our properties. Oh, those people who paid us years ago? No...we aren't restricting them. The people with tons of money who are buying direct from us today? Nope. Not restricting them either. Just you. Because you bought something at a discount that we were too cheap to purchase ourselves."

Why in heavens name would you ever want to drive while at Disney? Don't you drive enough at home? You're on vacation. You get Magical Express from the airport - which we use EVERY trip - and then buses, boats, and monorails while on property. There certainly isn't ANY reason to have to pay for parking.

1. My car is the way I arrive. I rarely fly, so I have to park somewhere. Now Disney is making me pay for that no matter where I go.

2. Having my vehicle allows me freedom to go where I want when I want. I never have to sit waiting on a bus for 20 min or more (happened more than once when I was traveling with others who wanted to take a bus). I don't have to wait multiple trips for a boat to take me to a non-monorail MK resort because the lines are so long. I have only been late for a dinner reservation once. That was when I was relying on Disney transportation to get me there. (You will say, "They warn you to give yourself 90 min to get there." I did. I was still late.) It takes me 30 minutes or less to get from any park to any other place in Disney with my car. That's an entire hour of extra time I have to enjoy myself in the parks, at a resort, or wherever and not in line for or on a bus, monorail, boat, etc. And that's not just an hour every day. That's an hour every time I want to go somewhere on Disney transportation. If I want to leave my resort, visit 3 parks that day, go to dinner at a different resort, and then travel back to my resort, that's anywhere from 3 to 5 hours I've spent doing fun things on my vacation, not waiting for a bus.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

This v v v

Evening EMH was a free (lower-cost if you consider the additional cost of staying on-site...room for your viewpoint in there) extra that came with staying in a Disney hotel. For those who planned well they could look ahead on the park calendar several months to see what nights were being offered where and plan their stay accordingly. Now they are changing nighttime (one of my favorite EMH times) to an elite pay-to-party event time instead of EMH.

The removal of evening EMH is a rumor at this point - not a fact.

I didn't suggest the rules were hidden in an attempt to be deceitful. DVD is very up front about their greed when it comes to discouraging resales and trying to funnel everyone to direct purchase.

The restriction I already made clear. New resale buyers are no longer able to use points on any future DVC resort starting with Riviera. That is an unnecessarily greedy restriction. To say, "Yes, you will pay us the same dues as everyone else at your resort. We won't alter that. But because you chose a resale that we were unwilling to buy back instead of paying us 5-10 times the price that DVC owners paid us in the past, we are going to tell you that you can only use your points at some of our properties. Oh, those people who paid us years ago? No...we aren't restricting them. The people with tons of money who are buying direct from us today? Nope. Not restricting them either. Just you. Because you bought something at a discount that we were too cheap to purchase ourselves."

Well, 5-10 times the price is a bit disingenuous, don't you think? And when I talked with my rep, he told me that the future restrictions are due to there being so many current owners, that people are having a very hard time getting into resorts at 7 months. Allowing it from the newer resorts will make it even harder in the future. To me, not allowing future resale buyers at the newer resorts results in a BETTER guest experience for those of that bought in many years ago, and I completely agree with the policy. And again, as long as someone knows the restrictions and buys anyways, they are buying with open eyes, and cannot complain.

1. My car is the way I arrive. I rarely fly, so I have to park somewhere. Now Disney is making me pay for that no matter where I go.

2. Having my vehicle allows me freedom to go where I want when I want. I never have to sit waiting on a bus for 20 min or more (happened more than once when I was traveling with others who wanted to take a bus). I don't have to wait multiple trips for a boat to take me to a non-monorail MK resort because the lines are so long. I have only been late for a dinner reservation once. That was when I was relying on Disney transportation to get me there. (You will say, "They warn you to give yourself 90 min to get there." I did. I was still late.) It takes me 30 minutes or less to get from any park to any other place in Disney with my car. That's an entire hour of extra time I have to enjoy myself in the parks, at a resort, or wherever and not in line for or on a bus, monorail, boat, etc. And that's not just an hour every day. That's an hour every time I want to go somewhere on Disney transportation. If I want to leave my resort, visit 3 parks that day, go to dinner at a different resort, and then travel back to my resort, that's anywhere from 3 to 5 hours I've spent doing fun things on my vacation, not waiting for a bus.

And that's your choice. You know going in that there is a cost associated with it. Sure, complain about it here (oh, and full disclosure - I DON"T AGREE WITH IT EITHER), but it is what it is, and it's not going away.

 

[VaderTron]

The removal of evening EMH is a rumor at this point - not a fact.


Well, 5-10 times the price is a bit disingenuous, don't you think? And when I talked with my rep, he told me that the future restrictions are due to there being so many current owners, that people are having a very hard time getting into resorts at 7 months. Allowing it from the newer resorts will make it even harder in the future. To me, not allowing future resale buyers at the newer resorts results in a BETTER guest experience for those of that bought in many years ago, and I completely agree with the policy. And again, as long as someone knows the restrictions and buys anyways, they are buying with open eyes, and cannot complain.

You are missing the point. Yes, there is always going to be a reason behind a change (legitimate or not). The fact is, they are targeting the lower income group in this change. You stated before that no one expects any of the perks to remain a constant. Yet, instead of making a change that affects all DVC owners to handle the 7 month reservation shortage, they are targeting the lowest income group. It's a pattern with the current Disney management.

 

[MisterPenguin]

The removal of evening EMH is a rumor at this point - not a fact.

The moving of one evening of EMH to the morning is a rumor at this point - not a fact.

Just wanted to make that clear.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

You are missing the point. Yes, there is always going to be a reason behind a change (legitimate or not). The fact is, they are targeting the lower income group in this change. You stated before that no one expects any of the perks to remain a constant. Yet, instead of making a change that affects all DVC owners to handle the 7 month reservation shortage, they are targeting the lowest income group. It's a pattern with the current Disney management.

What type of income do you think these people are? Even resale is going to run into 5 figures for most, and then there is the cost to get there, park tickets, and everything else. Disney is not a cheap vacation. There are lots of DVC owners that never stay anywhere but their home resort. Their choice.

Just a quick check of DVC resales shows that almost all resorts are well over $100/point, with only OKW being in the $90's. So it can still easily run $20-30,000 to buy resale.