Updates to the Seas Pavilion

[marni1971]

Will this be something we see in the next 3-5 years?

Phase one is underway now (TLC). The more ambitious phase two was scheduled for 2021ish but looks to be on hold.

 

[hpyhnt 1000]

Phase one is underway now (TLC). The more ambitious phase two was scheduled for 2021ish but looks to be on hold.

Epcot - Every Project Cutback, Overlayed, or Thwarted.

The powers that be really don't have a clue what to do with this park do they? Such a pity...

 

[Kman101]

It's so annoying to always hear about cutbacks in funding. Will they ever learn? JUST SPEND THE MONEY ...

 

[Lensman]

As a reference point, the Georgia Aquarium was established from a $250 million grant from Bernie Marcus, a co-founder of Home Depot. You also pay $30 per person admission and the aquarium is run as a non-profit, so the $30 must all be going to ongoing operational costs.

The Seas has to be one of the more expensive pavilions to operate, but they're stuck with it so the question is how to update it so it can really pull its weight in being a crowd-pleaser and in particular figuring out how to please adults as much as kids. (assuming the Nemo overlay did make it pleasing enough to kids).

I love edutainment oriented exhibits but also I have to admit to liking pure educational exhibits so I may not represent a big enough target audience. I'd love to see them have exhibits that aren't typical of pure "aquariums", maybe prehistoric seas starting with Cyanobacteria and the Great Oxygenation Event, the Paleoproterozoic Snowball Earth, etc. They could move into the future and talk about the dangers of ocean acidification. And maybe for the present they could also add a high pressure deep sea aquarium or maybe even a hydrothermal vent aquarium?

Just my opinion. You can see why they don't want to center their focus groups around me. lol

On a completely different note, I'd like to see them build one of those land-based salmon farms and run tours. Maybe they could also run tours of their PV farm too? And hey, why not build a "Sun" pavilion built around a small concentrated solar facility. You could even call this new pavilion the Universe of Energy or something like that.

 

[steve2wdw]

The TLC mentioned, was certainly noticeable to me when I visited The Seas (w/ Nemo & Friends) this past Tuesday (4.24). The main tank was especially clear, and there appeared to be a greater variety of fish in said tank. Dolphins were back, after what a keeper said was a 6 month move to an off stage home, to accommodate work that would have bothered them. The whole pavilion seemed much more alive. A few omnimover observations.....Angler was still stationary, and the pop out shark, wasn't popping. All the screens appeared to be functioning. I spent the better part of an hour in the place. More than triple what I have in recent years.

 

[HMF]

I have always said that I don't mind Nemo being there as an aid to bring in young kids and introduce them to the concept of the Seas. My issue has always been the fact that the pavilion has become more about Nemo & Friends and less about "The Seas" I hope WDI keeps that in mind when making these updates.

 

[RSoxNo1]

As a reference point, the Georgia Aquarium was established from a $250 million grant from Bernie Marcus, a co-founder of Home Depot. You also pay $30 per person admission and the aquarium is run as a non-profit, so the $30 must all be going to ongoing operational costs.

The Seas has to be one of the more expensive pavilions to operate, but they're stuck with it so the question is how to update it so it can really pull its weight in being a crowd-pleaser and in particular figuring out how to please adults as much as kids. (assuming the Nemo overlay did make it pleasing enough to kids).

I love edutainment oriented exhibits but also I have to admit to liking pure educational exhibits so I may not represent a big enough target audience. I'd love to see them have exhibits that aren't typical of pure "aquariums", maybe prehistoric seas starting with Cyanobacteria and the Great Oxygenation Event, the Paleoproterozoic Snowball Earth, etc. They could move into the future and talk about the dangers of ocean acidification. And maybe for the present they could also add a high pressure deep sea aquarium or maybe even a hydrothermal vent aquarium?

Just my opinion. You can see why they don't want to center their focus groups around me. lol

On a completely different note, I'd like to see them build one of those land-based salmon farms and run tours. Maybe they could also run tours of their PV farm too? And hey, why not build a "Sun" pavilion built around a small concentrated solar facility. You could even call this new pavilion the Universe of Energy or something like that.

You return the focus of Epcot to making the real world feel like Fantasy and build an attraction around that. It’s why I’ve suggested something built around exploring the Marianas Trench.

 

[Mat Cauthon]

You return the focus of Epcot to making the real world feel like Fantasy and build an attraction around that. It’s why I’ve suggested something built around exploring the Marianas Trench.

When you come to the trench swim through it, not over it.

 

[clarabellej]

I’m for any kind of improvement to The Living Seas. I would especially be for any kind that removed the lazy and not well implemented Nemo junk.

Amen to that. I would’ve kept Ellen & the dinosaurs over Nemo!!!!! The line space alone for Nemo is such a waste of space

 

[Myth Maker]

Amen to that. I would’ve kept Ellen & the dinosaurs over Nemo!!!!! The line space alone for Nemo is such a waste of space

My biggest problem with Nemo is the way it was executed... Why re-tell the movie over again, I have already seen the movie!

Why not put in right in the scene with Nemo and Ray and instead have them take us on a journey to sea base alpha while teaching us about marine life in the process! ...

I've said again and again, these moving re-telling rides are garbage... Put us as active participants in an original story.

 

[KBLovedDisney]

Take out the Nemo ride, build onto the building itself several stories and have a dedicated Horizons Hotel where you have the ground level aquariums/check-in/+ a really nicely themed restaurant as Sea Castle Research Base, mid levels (basic rooms and family suites) would be Mesa Verde, and then a few stories up you would then have Brava Cenauri with basic rooms and family suites + the proposed space restaurant at the very top level.

Yeah...not gonna happen, but it was cool to think of it.

 

[Kman101]

My biggest problem with Nemo is the way it was executed... Why re-tell the movie over again, I have already seen the movie!

Why not put in right in the scene with Nemo and Ray and instead have them take us on a journey to sea base alpha while teaching us about marine life in the process! ...

I've said again and again, these moving re-telling rides are garbage... Put us as active participants in an original story.

Exactly. I agree completely. In many cases, IP isn't "the problem", it's the execution using said IP that's often lazy, which is a shame. Nemo didn't have to be a rehash of the film. It's almost cruel he goes 'missing' again! lol

I think there's a place for certain IPs (WALL-E, Big Hero 6 and Inside Out, even The Muppets, could all work in Future World to a certain degree, and Nemo can/could have; I know everyone's "YMMV" on 'liking' IP used ... ), but I'm tired of the low budget overlays forced on us just to implement them. I also wish they'd remember not everything NEEDS to be tied to a franchise or IP. People will flock to anything new, lol.

 

[marni1971]

Remember Nemo was done on a shoestring (and had to fight for what it got).

Without it the pavilion may not be here today. I’d like to hope the overlay was a means to an end, a temporary theme that kept the pavilion open until something better comes along.

Temporary. Right?

 

[englanddg]

Well, lets get into it.

Aquariums in theme parks....don't draw.

No one wants to go to a theme park, in 2018, to look at fish.

It's like putting a library behind a $100 gate fee and saying, well, sure, but we have fireworks!

The concept of EPCOT, from a Theme Park concept, as much as it pains me to say it, doesn't work. You have to tie it into a concept.

Of all the concepts, Nemo makes the most sense. Sure, I wish they hadn't gotten rid of the hyrolators. They could have expanded the lore and kept them, but, whatever...

Lets back off now and talk about the building itself. It is an aging aquarium. Once one of the largest in the world, but also built very....very....quickly.

The whole pavilion needs a refresh, but without draw, what is the reason for the expense? Slap an IP on it and move on, and that is what Disney has done. To compare it to the GA Aquarium, isn't accurate. The GA aquarium was designed with the sealife in mind. As a result, it doesn't have the same issues.

Sea World, frankly, has done better.

We are sitting on largely 1970s tech there....and, with their design, it worked. But, as the EPCOT message is now gone, the park doesn't tell that story...and pretty much no one wants it to tell that story (because it doesn't make money).

So...

 

[spock8113]

Ahhh, the Hydrolators-leave it to Disney to weld two words together for a catchy name.
Unfortunately, they never went anywhere, you just watched a rubber-rock wall rotate vertically behind a fish tank inside a closed room.
The chair ride through what is now Nemo was very World's Fairish.
And it has been established that EPCOT is basically a World's Fair, similar to the '64 New York World's Fair that Disney was heavily involved in.
Even the 1939 World's Fair has it's influences on EPCOT
https://www.dizavenue.com/2014/08/epcot-and-1939-worlds-fair.html

That being said, EPCOT and Disney have followed this successful formula for decades, but it is starting to date itself and the guests are starting to demand more. Rubber hippos and organs in tree houses aren't quite filling the bill anymore.
More updates, more technology, more intensity, more Holideck.
Don't get me wrong, there's always a place for the older rides (Kennywood Park in Pennsylvania), but there now needs to be a balance.

The entire theme park industry is at a crossroads where today and nostalgia need to be carefully coordinated.
Going too much in either direction is a hazard.
In Disney's case, people want to keep Walt's ideas alive while moving into the future.
As big-business as they've become, they need to move forward with Walt sitting on their shoulder, whispering in their Mickey ears.
You can make this the Happiest Place on Earth and still keep the shareholders happy,
just don't make the shareholders being happy your primary goal.

 

[ppete1975]

Remember Nemo was done on a shoestring (and had to fight for what it got).

Without it the pavilion may not be here today. I’d like to hope the overlay was a means to an end, a temporary theme that kept the pavilion open until something better comes along.

Temporary. Right?

I wasn't here during this time, what made them decide that the original idea wouldn't work and go the nemo direction?
Was the attendance poor? Did a higher up not like it? Did they have trouble keeping the fish healthy?
As always thank you for your insight and knowledge

 

[zakattack99]

Temporary as in the normal meaning or Temporary as in the Disney meaning, see BAH/Epcot Wand

 

[JWG]

If it keeps funding remains to be seen.

but looks to be on hold.

Temporary. Right?

All to frequent of a theme that grand plans get thwarted and delayed... Funny how "temporary" at Disney has a 5-10 year shelf life.

 

[AJDMB05]

This is going to sound weird, but it feels like ever since corporate sponsorships ended, the park as a whole has gone downhill. I can't tell if companies don't want to be involved anymore, or if Disney just isn't having as many sponsorship conversations since most/all rides are being centered around Disney movies. We all know what happens when sponsors go away, things typically get worse, it just feels like the goal is only to squeeze every last dollar out of whatever the original sponsor paid for and see how many years it can sit there with minimal changes.

 

[mikejs78]

Well, lets get into it.

Aquariums in theme parks....don't draw.

No one wants to go to a theme park, in 2018, to look at fish.

It's like putting a library behind a $100 gate fee and saying, well, sure, but we have fireworks!

The concept of EPCOT, from a Theme Park concept, as much as it pains me to say it, doesn't work. You have to tie it into a concept.

Of all the concepts, Nemo makes the most sense. Sure, I wish they hadn't gotten rid of the hyrolators. They could have expanded the lore and kept them, but, whatever...

Lets back off now and talk about the building itself. It is an aging aquarium. Once one of the largest in the world, but also built very....very....quickly.

The whole pavilion needs a refresh, but without draw, what is the reason for the expense? Slap an IP on it and move on, and that is what Disney has done. To compare it to the GA Aquarium, isn't accurate. The GA aquarium was designed with the sealife in mind. As a result, it doesn't have the same issues.

Sea World, frankly, has done better.

We are sitting on largely 1970s tech there....and, with their design, it worked. But, as the EPCOT message is now gone, the park doesn't tell that story...and pretty much no one wants it to tell that story (because it doesn't make money).

So...

When I was there, the aquarium part of seas was quite busy. This on a fairly low crowd day at Epcot. Apparently people (myself included) do like an acquarium at a theme park.