Universal Epic Universe (South Expansion Complex) - Opens May 22 2025

[UNCgolf]

Exposed coaster track is the dealbreaker for you? If you go to a theme park, you want every single coaster to just be another minetrain or hidden in the dark? You can't see the value in coaster track representing themes or ideas in the abstract?

They can, but it's pretty hard to pull off. There are very few outdoor, exposed track coasters that don't detract from theme.

Or in the case of Epic Universe, it's not a themed land, but Starfall Racers is probably going to make Celestial Park a lesser environment.

 

[JT3000]

They can, but it's pretty hard to pull off. There are very few outdoor, exposed track coasters that don't detract from theme.

Or in the case of Epic Universe, it's not a themed land, but Starfall Racers is probably going to make Celestial Park a lesser environment.

You do realize it's off to the side, right? It's not like it's snaking throughout the land itself.

 

[UNCgolf]

You do realize it's off to the side, right? It's not like it's snaking throughout the land itself.

You're right -- looks like it's mostly hidden off to the side now. At one point there was art showing it almost in the center of the park.

That doesn't seem like it will cause any major problems for Celestial Park.

 

[DarkMetroid567]

It’ll likely be visible from Isle of Berk from what I’ve seen.

 

[wdwfan4ver]

I also find the hyperbole around Universal makes it hard to judge what's actually going on in terms of public enthusiasm for their product. After months of hearing how people were deserting Disney in droves and moving over to Universal Orlando, the last quarterly reports suggested a downturn for both that was actually worse for Universal than Disney. So, I find it hard to know how much awareness there is about this park let alone excitement beyond the fan community.

The real Hyperbole is coming from Youtube channels like WDW PRO. WDW PRO is capable of over hyping stuff up considering he has an axe to grind with Disney and creating headline to draw people into his videos. I am saying that because WDW Pro did a headline yesterday on a video called " Breaking: Disney losing top spot to Universal Studios in 2026?! Investors fear Epic Universe!

I'm sorry, but Disney losing the top spot to Universal Studios in 2026 due to Epic Universe to me is hyperbole and way to much over reacting to a new theme park.

I am looking forward to see Epic Universe next year, but having a Universal theme park out drawing all of WDW or Magic Kingdom in 2026 is out is the question. Also if an Investor actually thinks Epic Universe going to cause Disney to lose the top Spot to Universe in 2026 has to have their head exam.

The problem here is Universal themselves already are having a plan to limit attendance to Epic Universe and also could the same in 2026. Also I don't buy Epic Universe having the Capacity to outdraw Magic Kingdom in 2026.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

Exposed coaster track is the dealbreaker for you? If you go to a theme park, you want every single coaster to just be another minetrain or hidden in the dark? You can't see the value in coaster track representing themes or ideas in the abstract?

I think the big leap that Disneyland made from amusement parks was to make rides less obviously rides and seem more like experiences. The Jungle Cruise boarded from a dock that was supposed to seem realistic and the rest of the experience was hidden and mysterious, the Matterhorn was a bobsled ride through a mountain instead of a rollercoaster, and the Haunted Mansion involved entering a haunted Southern mansion rather than boarding a vehicle outside a show building.

Of course, there have always been the Dumbos and other attractions that are less elaborate and more obviously rides. They're usually relatively contained, though, and not as visually prominent as coasters have been at Universal parks. For example, I think the equivalent of a Hulk or Velocicoaster at an existing Disney park would be received as a calamity even greater than the Harmonious barges. Imagine, for example, if they built a coaster through Africa or Asia at Animal Kingdom and told us to just imagine it was meant to simulate riding on an animal and how that would subtract from all the work the Imagineers had put into creating believable environments.

 

[JT3000]

I think the equivalent of a Hulk or Velocicoaster at an existing Disney park would be received as a calamity even greater than the Harmonious barges

Well there's no need to speculate. Was it received as a calamity?

Or this one?

How about something that was far more of an eyesore than either of those Universal attractions?

 

[mkt]

A reminder...

The land for EU started to be cleared in 2018.

Uni didn't announce what they were doing with it until 2019.

So from 'first shovel,' it will have taken 7 years to build EU.

And that doesn't include the years before 2018 spent planning/preparing and designing.

 

[Poseidon Quest]

They can, but it's pretty hard to pull off. There are very few outdoor, exposed track coasters that don't detract from theme.

Or in the case of Epic Universe, it's not a themed land, but Starfall Racers is probably going to make Celestial Park a lesser environment.

I think it's insane to not find the value in a kinetic sculpture. If you're limiting yourself to just hidden coasters or mine trains, you're limiting what the industry can offer in terms of theme. It's like when walking near or under the Hulk, framed in such a way as to be visually pleasing and to play kinetically on the lagoon.

I think the big leap that Disneyland made from amusement parks was to make rides less obviously rides and seem more like experiences. The Jungle Cruise boarded from a dock that was supposed to seem realistic and the rest of the experience was hidden and mysterious, the Matterhorn was a bobsled ride through a mountain instead of a rollercoaster, and the Haunted Mansion involved entering a haunted Southern mansion rather than boarding a vehicle outside a show building.

Of course, there have always been the Dumbos and other attractions that are less elaborate and more obviously rides. They're usually relatively contained, though, and not as visually prominent as coasters have been at Universal parks. For example, I think the equivalent of a Hulk or Velocicoaster at an existing Disney park would be received as a calamity even greater than the Harmonious barges. Imagine, for example, if they built a coaster through Africa or Asia at Animal Kingdom and told us to just imagine it was meant to simulate riding on an animal and how that would subtract from all the work the Imagineers had put into creating believable environments.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with hiding track when that's the creative vision and that is often what Disney does. Yeah, Hulk or Velocicoaster would be weird in a Disney park, but that's also because they limit themselves to a certain design philosophy most of the time. As stated above, coasters also work as kinetic sculptures and when placed tastefully in guest view or near guest pathways, can play with the landscape, while also conveying theme or ideas in the abstract. Looking at Wing Gliders, the track is clearly meant to be ignored as a non-diegetic element as riders glide chaotically throughout the land. Mine trains or hiding track can work for Disney, but it's also creatively limiting for bigger coasters that still intend to convey an abstract theme or even an actual story.

 

[DarkMetroid567]

Well there's no need to speculate. Was it received as a calamity?

Or this one?

How about something that was far more of an eyesore than either of those Universal attractions?

California Screamin’ is a bad example bc people genuinely love the look of it and it’s 100% important to the land’s theming

 

[MisterPenguin]

Well there's no need to speculate. Was it received as a calamity?

Or this one?

How about something that was far more of an eyesore than either of those Universal attractions?

 

[Sir_Cliff]

Well there's no need to speculate. Was it received as a calamity?

Or this one?

How about something that was far more of an eyesore than either of those Universal attractions?

Does anyone think any of those attractions represent great Imagineering? The reason Slinky Dog Dash might not be received as a calamity is that it is contained in one land at the back of the park rather than being front and centre. As for the Incredicoaster, I do think there is some potential for a nostalgic seaside pier as a land involving a simulated wooden roller coaster. As to why it specifically wasn't received as a calamity, though, the answer is simple: DCA as a whole was received as a calamity.

 

[lazyboy97o]

That’s ridiculous. Clones not only save time on design, they save significant time in manufacturing. For Tron in MK, Disney did not redesign the restraint system, did not redesign the track layout, did not redesign the set pieces or effects or building except for the train modification which they didn’t do anything interesting with. To say Disney didn’t enjoy massive efficiency gains as a result of cloning Tron is the nonsense. Why have they been building so many clones?

The fact that Universal built an entire theme park of 9+ major attractions, of which only 2 were clones, in anywhere near the time frame Disney built 1 clone is nothing short of an embarassment for Disney. There is no excuse

Saving 10% is better than nothing. It’s also more of a known number with less risk of overrun. There are efficiencies but they aren’t massive. Many components also have to be redesigned because design is more than just the outward aesthetic and appearance. Even something simple like a show light cannot necessarily be the same because electricity isn’t the same everywhere.

Even before COVID, Universal Studios Beijing was never going to an example of quick project delivery despite having so many clones. It is also the most expensive park ever built (until it is surpassed next year). Transformers: The Ride - 3D at Universal Studios Florida was the one true example of an insanely quick clone, one that wasn’t cheap and an amazing feat that Universal could not pull off today.

More details on the technical details of “clones”

Possible Attraction in France pavilion (Epcot) Update - new Attraction Greenlit

Just in from Tokyo for Beauty & the Beast. Maybe worth reconsidering for France or MK (First choice...):

forums.wdwmagic.com

News - Tron coaster coming to the Magic Kingdom

It is a very quick timeline. Something else to consider: Building EPCOT is also the type of work that brings multiple national companies into an area, that have more resources to throw around. Building Tron and other current projects is more of a job for local/regional construction companies...

forums.wdwmagic.com

News - Tron coaster coming to the Magic Kingdom

It is a very quick timeline. Something else to consider: Building EPCOT is also the type of work that brings multiple national companies into an area, that have more resources to throw around. Building Tron and other current projects is more of a job for local/regional construction companies...

forums.wdwmagic.com

 

[DarkMetroid567]

I think it's insane to not find the value in a kinetic sculpture. If you're limiting yourself to just hidden coasters or mine trains, you're limiting what the industry can offer in terms of theme. It's like when walking near or under the Hulk, framed in such a way as to be visually pleasing and to play kinetically on the lagoon.

I 100% agree with this and think Hulk is a great example, but since you’re replying in regards to Stardust, it doesn’t really work. You can only see a small portion from Celestial Park from what we’ve seen, it instead seems to loom over Berk. So for CP, it seems you’re getting a combo of glaring yellow+blue track but little kinetic energy.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

California Screamin’ is a bad example bc people genuinely love the look of it and it’s 100% important to the land’s theming

It's also designed to function as a berm, as there is none in Paradise Pier without it

 

[JT3000]

California Screamin’ is a bad example bc people genuinely love the look of it and it’s 100% important to the land’s theming

I was around when DCA opened. They prevailing sentiment was "we hate this whole area." Incredicoaster, which is what's pictured, is also largely considered a thematic downgrade from California Screamin'.

Spoiler

It was actually "We hate this entire park."

View attachment 821375

This meme tends to be accurate, but it's also why I'm so perplexed when the same Disney fans who largely accept these rides attack Velocicoaster, which fits squarely in the "themed as a roller coaster" category.

Does anyone think any of those attractions represent great Imagineering? The reason Slinky Dog Dash might not be received as a calamity is that it is contained in one land at the back of the park rather than being front and centre. As for the Incredicoaster, I do think there is some potential for a nostalgic seaside pier as a land involving a simulated wooden roller coaster. As to why it specifically wasn't received as a calamity, though, the answer is simple: DCA as a whole was received as a calamity.

It doesn't have to be great Imagineering, the category is exposed steel coasters in Disney theme parks, and I don't think these already existing examples are any better than what you were criticizing.

California Screamin' was a simulated wooden roller coaster on a pier, while Velocicoaster is a steel roller coaster in a theme park (within a theme park.) Thematically the same deal.

 

[MisterPenguin]

This meme tends to be accurate, but it's also why I'm so perplexed when the same Disney fans who largely accept these rides attack Velocicoaster, which fits squarely in the "themed as a roller coaster" category.

I'm getting used to 'family coasters,' but I haven't worked my way up to high thrill coasters with big drops. So, I haven't been on Velocicoaster. And this is the first time I've heard its premise is that it's a coaster ride in dinosaur park.

Maybe that's why it's derided by thematic purists, they don't know it's a coaster that's supposed to be a coaster.

 

[DarkMetroid567]

I'm getting used to 'family coasters,' but I haven't worked my way up to high thrill coasters with big drops. So, I haven't been on Velocicoaster. And this is the first time I've heard its premise is that it's a coaster ride in dinosaur park.

Maybe that's why it's derided by thematic purists, they don't know it's a coaster that's supposed to be a coaster.

I think Veloci is a gorgeous looking ride but the “coaster in a raptor paddock” shtick is such an obvious cop-out that I find it actively annoying, lol. Then they try to tell you the raptors are racing alongside you — only to barely see a few static raptors for a split second.

 

[celluloid]

Penguin can agree with you and still make their argument in good faith. They’re right in saying that the incentives are totally different.

If TRON fails and has 5 minute waits for the rest of its life, it hurts Disney a bit, but Magic Kingdom likely still continues to rake in money.

If Epic Universe fails, it basically dooms Universal Destinations & Experiences for at least the next decade.

If a company is investing in both projects at once, the latter is getting done much, much faster.

All.this is blown apart as Uni built their other sand alone rides, two major attractions at IOA at a much faster pace among other projects typicallyntaking 1-2 years at most.

It's kind of a cultural shorthand at this point that exposed coaster track = unthemed, because for so long Disney never built such things [but they also didn't build many coasters to begin with for decades].

Barnstormer, Slinky Dog Dash, Raging Spirits and Primeval Whirl are all Disney examples of coasters with exposed track. The fact that they're all lackluster in some way, probably contributes to the dismissiveness coasters like them receive.

It's impossible to build something like Hagrid's or Hiccup's without seeing at least some track. I don't think it detracts to a large extent. Werewolf would have benefitted from being totally enclosed in the dark though.

Disney shifted from this so hard.
RnR is not only labeled a coaster in the title for just the sake of its wordplay, but flash forward to Crush Coaster Slinky and Tron and they intentionally expose the track for kinetic energy.
If you can accept that Slinky is part of a toy track playset that is also clearly a coaster, then you can accept that The Incredibke Hulk Coaster is Dr. Banner's Experiment.

 

[JT3000]

I'm getting used to 'family coasters,' but I haven't worked my way up to high thrill coasters with big drops. So, I haven't been on Velocicoaster. And this is the first time I've heard its premise is that it's a coaster ride in dinosaur park.

Maybe that's why it's derided by thematic purists, they don't know it's a coaster that's supposed to be a coaster.

I've never been on it either, likely too intense, but I think it's only fair that everyone familiarizes themselves with the ride's premise.

It probably doesn't help that there were no roller coasters in the movies, so it doesn't immediately fit into people's ideas of what the park should look like, but there was one in other JP media.