Universal Epic Universe (South Expansion Complex) - Opens May 22 2025

[JT3000]

You don’t have to like something to understand it. Just the notion of “timely” is lacking because a lot is tied to little more than desire. People were expecting this park to open sooner than was ever planned pretty much from the get go and sort of just look the other way at a 12 month pause causing an 18 month delay. Almost every thread about construction invariably hits a point where construction progress is clearly noticeable and people start getting their hopes up that a project is moving super fast and might open early.

As a consumer, I understand what I like and like what I understand. The two are inseparable, and a desire to spend my money on a given product is what it's all about at the end of the day. If a park is too slow to get a project off the ground because they announced it too early, I don't like it and therefore I also don't understand it, because I believe it was the wrong call. Perhaps the slow drip makes sense to a corporate tightwad who wants to cut costs, but I'm a consumer. One with perfectly realistic expectations, in my humble opinion.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

When people talk about this as some kind of next level theme park, though, I look at all these images featuring exposed roller coaster tracks and even the "putting the park back into theme park" section people seem to wax lyrical over and find this looks more like a park with a mix of some lands with great theming/attractions and others that seem more average.

People seem to be fixated on Stardust Racers because it's the most clearly visible ride from helicopters and highways. It's hard to get a sense of what the park will look like from street level (while still under construction and missing landscaping) from those angles. I doubt Wizarding Paris, Berk or Darkmoor village will not be "immersive" and Nintendo (at least at USH) looks better in person than in photos.

It's to the park's detriment that its two biggest features (the hotel and Stardust Racers) hurt its theming the most.

I don't see a new EPCOT Center or Animal Kingdom.

There's never going to be a park as nice as EPCOT Center, Euro Disneyland, Animal Kingdom or Tokyo DisneySea ever again. Not even Disney lives up to that standard anymore. It's why negative changes to those parks hurt so much more.

I also find the hyperbole around Universal makes it hard to judge what's actually going on in terms of public enthusiasm for their product. After months of hearing how people were deserting Disney in droves and moving over to Universal Orlando, the last quarterly reports suggested a downturn for both that was actually worse for Universal than Disney. So, I find it hard to know how much awareness there is about this park let alone excitement beyond the fan community.

I don't think most people are aware of the park. I expect a media blitz to begin shortly. I think they'd be smart to have a trailer for the park in front of Wicked or any other high profile Universal release over the next year.

 

[UNCgolf]

I am very curious about how this opens. It appears they are being quite aggressive with their ticketing options and Helios offerings, though leaving themselves some wriggle room if they get closer to opening and it's looking like they have been too aggressive.

The totality of the D23 announcements managed to kill my interest in Disney parks to an extent that still surprises me, but I was always less bowled over by EU than most people on here seemed to be. It does have an impressive amount of attractions at opening, especially compared to what we've become used to from Disney. When people talk about this as some kind of next level theme park, though, I look at all these images featuring exposed roller coaster tracks and even the "putting the park back into theme park" section people seem to wax lyrical over and find this looks more like a park with a mix of some lands with great theming/attractions and others that seem more average. I don't see a new EPCOT Center or Animal Kingdom.

I also find the hyperbole around Universal makes it hard to judge what's actually going on in terms of public enthusiasm for their product. After months of hearing how people were deserting Disney in droves and moving over to Universal Orlando, the last quarterly reports suggested a downturn for both that was actually worse for Universal than Disney. So, I find it hard to know how much awareness there is about this park let alone excitement beyond the fan community.

I'm sure EU will be absolutely slammed -- it's the first new major theme park in the US in over 20 years.

I'm less convinced it's going to be some kind of massive paradigm shift long-term, or have any kind of significant impact on Disney's business, mainly because I don't think it looks all that impressive. Like you said, there are certain areas that look great, and others that don't really seem like anything special.

 

[UNCgolf]

People seem to be fixated on Stardust Racers because it's the most clearly visible ride from helicopters and highways. It's hard to get a sense of what the park will look like from street level (while still under construction and missing landscaping) from those angles. I doubt Wizarding Paris, Berk or Darkmoor village will not be "immersive" and Nintendo (at least at USH) looks better in person than in photos.

It's to the park's detriment that its two biggest features (the hotel and Stardust Racers) hurt its theming the most.

The rides are the problem for Nintendo. Hopefully the Donkey Kong ride will be good, but I remember reading that it may be very, very short, like TRON level short, which will not help if true (hopefully that's not true). The Mario Kart attraction is a huge swing and a miss -- it would be significantly improved if they removed the silly AR shooting, dropped the Mario Kart aspect, and just turned it into a Mario dark ride. But they'd probably need to make some other changes to scenes etc. if they ever did that (and they're not going to).

Berk doesn't look interesting at all to me, which is the big downside of IP lands. I don't have any connection to that IP, and the concept art just looks like a kind of generic Viking (stereotypical Viking moreso than actual Viking) cartoon mishmash. The attractions in that land also seem bland. I'm sure it'll be a hit to people who love the IP, and there are plenty of them, but it's also not remotely on the level of something like HP, Nintendo, or Star Wars in terms of customer base/reach.

 

[CoasterCowboy67]

This is just nonsense on top of nonsense. Announcements tell you nothing about the state of a project. TRON’s pre-COVID timeline was actually quite reasonable even while Epic Universe’s was a bit aggressive. Clones dont save an huge amount of design work. More importantly, announcements aren’t made at a standardized point in the design process.

That’s ridiculous. Clones not only save time on design, they save significant time in manufacturing. For Tron in MK, Disney did not redesign the restraint system, did not redesign the track layout, did not redesign the set pieces or effects or building except for the train modification which they didn’t do anything interesting with. To say Disney didn’t enjoy massive efficiency gains as a result of cloning Tron is the nonsense. Why have they been building so many clones?

The fact that Universal built an entire theme park of 9+ major attractions, of which only 2 were clones, in anywhere near the time frame Disney built 1 clone is nothing short of an embarassment for Disney. There is no excuse

 

[J4546]

9+ major attractions?

 

[Misted Compass]

only 2 were clones,

Technically 3 (MK/Yoshi/DK) though the latter is still having issues delaying its opening in Japan.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

People seem to be fixated on Stardust Racers because it's the most clearly visible ride from helicopters and highways. It's hard to get a sense of what the park will look like from street level (while still under construction and missing landscaping) from those angles. I doubt Wizarding Paris, Berk or Darkmoor village will not be "immersive" and Nintendo (at least at USH) looks better in person than in photos.

It's to the park's detriment that its two biggest features (the hotel and Stardust Racers) hurt its theming the most.

Certainly Wizarding Paris, Darkmore, and Nintendo look immersive and interesting from a theming perspective. Berk does have a roller coaster running through it, though, and also has those big swinging things that look like lightly themed off-the-shelf type attractions, IMO.

I think this is something Universal does which undercuts efforts to position it as rivalling if not surpassing Disney when it comes to theme parks (if they're trying to do that): they stick big, exposed coaster tracks in the middle of their parks that become some of the parks' most visible features. Maybe this is in part what they want to do, but it sends the message that their parks are still different beasts to what Disney is known for even if other parts of their parks equal or surpass the level of theming and immersion offered by Disney parks. It kind of reminds me of the very strong impression the Maliboomer towers gave about the nature of DCA before you even entered the park and why it was so important to tear them down.

There's never going to be a park as nice as EPCOT Center, Euro Disneyland, Animal Kingdom or Tokyo DisneySea ever again. Not even Disney lives up to that standard anymore. It's why negative changes to those parks hurt so much more.

Unfortunately, I suspect you're right. Again, this is not a Disney vs Universal thing: I'm also not interested in anything Disney is doing right now.

I'm sure EU will be absolutely slammed -- it's the first new major theme park in the US in over 20 years.

I'm less convinced it's going to be some kind of massive paradigm shift long-term, or have any kind of significant impact on Disney's business, mainly because I don't think it looks all that impressive. Like you said, there are certain areas that look great, and others that don't really seem like anything special.

Hopefully it does well, though theme park history seems littered with expectations for big openings that don't materialise.

I can imagine the park being packed during previews and its first days/weeks regardless of other factors, but I suspect its performance will be a lot more dependent on the general factors that determine whether people decide to take the family to Orlando for a theme park vacation in 2025. I would think they'd have to be careful about being too bullish about its prospects given all the talk of cost of living pressures and media chatter about theme park vacations being too expensive. I don't think that many people will be so interested in visiting this park right away that they will swallow things like being forced to buy multi-day passes with only 1 day at EU in order to visit. They may have to pivot quite quickly away from those strategies and then we're back to the issue of how much of the park's new attendance comes at the expense of Uni's other parks.

I guess we shall see in due time. I'm glad I'm not the only one who doesn't see some great paradigm shift, though!

 

[celluloid]

The longest Central FL has ever gone without a major theme park opening.
Long term is just as exciting to me.

 

[MisterPenguin]

So why build anything new ever? Just continue operating the parks as they are, since they're already making money. Sorry, but I'm not buying this excuse at all.

Then why build it?
It's called an attraction. You build it so more come and spend. Whe you open it, you aim for the AOS and attendance increases.

To say no financial incentive is quite ridiculous.

Wow. Just wow.

My point was about the *speed* of building. You both avoided that context to make whatever off the wall point you decided made sense in your own minds.

New rides bring in profit. New gates bring in profit. But new gates that are in the process of being built bring in zero profit and are a cash pit. That's why new gates get built as fast as possible.

Because Disney and Comcast have deep pockets, it's hard to see the difference. But *if* both had cash flow issues, building TRON slowly wouldn't be an issue. Building EU could bankrupt a company (again, if both had cash flow issues). Comcast has Big Debt issues. They want EU to open as soon as possible.

That thought experiment is to highlight why new gates get built as fast as possible (or open before fully finished). Meanwhile new rides in a park that is already profitable doesn't need to be build at breakneck speeds.

Also, already operating theme parks want to spread out their new rides to bring back guests year after year. Of course, that doesn't satisfied those who go often and want something new every time they go.

 

[celluloid]

Wow. Just wow.

My point was about the *speed* of building. You both avoided that context to make whatever off the wall point you decided made sense in your own minds.

New rides bring in profit. New gates bring in profit. But new gates that are in the process of being built bring in zero profit and are a cash pit. That's why new gates get build as fast as possible.

Because Disney and Comcast have deep pockets, it's hard to see the difference. But *if* both had cash flow issues, building TRON slowly wouldn't be an issue. Building EU could bankrupt a company (again, if both had cash flow issues). Comcast has Big Debt issues. They want EU to open as soon as possible.

That thought experiment is to highlight why new gates get built as fast as possible (or open before fully finished). Meanwhile new rides in a park that is already profitable doesn't need to be build at breakneck speeds.

Also, already operating theme parks want to spread out their new rides to bring back guests year after year. Of course, that doesn't satisfied those who go often and want something new every time they go.

It's not working for the mouse.

Tron was a meh both critically and hype for the size investment it was. Only E ticket ne ride structure in a decade.

Now we habe to get half empty promises of desperation of villians and Cars to Frontierland.


Wow...just wow indeed.

 

[MisterPenguin]

It's not working for the mouse.

Tron was a meh both critically and hype for the size investment it was.

Now we habe to get half empty promises of desperation of villians and Cars to Frontierland.


Wow...just wow indeed.

Again you changed the topic to score your point "TRON is meh."

You're not discussing in good faith.

Have a good day.

 

[celluloid]

Again you changed the topic to score your point "TRON is meh."

You're not discussing in good faith.

Have a good day.

Always a great day. No change needed. Tron should have not taken five years for the size investestment result.
It's a correlated thought.
People love spitting out the bad faith argument when they have little left to say.

 

[DarkMetroid567]

I'm sure EU will be absolutely slammed -- it's the first new major theme park in the US in over 20 years.

I'm less convinced it's going to be some kind of massive paradigm shift long-term, or have any kind of significant impact on Disney's business, mainly because I don't think it looks all that impressive. Like you said, there are certain areas that look great, and others that don't really seem like anything special.

I’m of this opinion. I am incredibly excited for EU and plan to be there opening day. But I still roll my eyes anytime someone calls it “transformative” or already proclaims it the best park in America.

It’s hard to see any of the lands beating Diagon, my favorite Universal land ever. I already know Super Nintendo World doesn’t. I do think Isle of Berk has the best odds!

 

[DarkMetroid567]

Always a great day. No change needed. Tron should have not taken five years for the size investestment result.
It's a correlated thought.
People love spitting out the bad faith argument when they have little left to say.

Penguin can agree with you and still make their argument in good faith. They’re right in saying that the incentives are totally different.

If TRON fails and has 5 minute waits for the rest of its life, it hurts Disney a bit, but Magic Kingdom likely still continues to rake in money.

If Epic Universe fails, it basically dooms Universal Destinations & Experiences for at least the next decade.

If a company is investing in both projects at once, the latter is getting done much, much faster.

 

[MisterPenguin]

A reminder...

The land for EU started to be cleared in 2018.

Uni didn't announce what they were doing with it until 2019.

So from 'first shovel,' it will have taken 7 years to build EU.

 

[Poseidon Quest]

I think this is something Universal does which undercuts efforts to position it as rivalling if not surpassing Disney when it comes to theme parks (if they're trying to do that): they stick big, exposed coaster tracks in the middle of their parks that become some of the parks' most visible features. Maybe this is in part what they want to do, but it sends the message that their parks are still different beasts to what Disney is known for even if other parts of their parks equal or surpass the level of theming and immersion offered by Disney parks. It kind of reminds me of the very strong impression the Maliboomer towers gave about the nature of DCA before you even entered the park and why it was so important to tear them down.

Exposed coaster track is the dealbreaker for you? If you go to a theme park, you want every single coaster to just be another minetrain or hidden in the dark? You can't see the value in coaster track representing themes or ideas in the abstract?

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Exposed coaster track is the dealbreaker for you? If you go to a theme park, you want every single coaster to just be another minetrain or hidden in the dark? You can't see the value in coaster track representing themes or ideas in the abstract?

It's kind of a cultural shorthand at this point that exposed coaster track = unthemed, because for so long Disney never built such things [but they also didn't build many coasters to begin with for decades].

Barnstormer, Slinky Dog Dash, Raging Spirits and Primeval Whirl are all Disney examples of coasters with exposed track. The fact that they're all lackluster in some way, probably contributes to the dismissiveness coasters like them receive.

It's impossible to build something like Hagrid's or Hiccup's without seeing at least some track. I don't think it detracts to a large extent. Werewolf would have benefitted from being totally enclosed in the dark though.

 

[JT3000]

Wow. Just wow.

My point was about the *speed* of building. You both avoided that context to make whatever off the wall point you decided made sense in your own minds.

New rides bring in profit. New gates bring in profit. But new gates that are in the process of being built bring in zero profit and are a cash pit. That's why new gates get built as fast as possible.

Because Disney and Comcast have deep pockets, it's hard to see the difference. But *if* both had cash flow issues, building TRON slowly wouldn't be an issue. Building EU could bankrupt a company (again, if both had cash flow issues). Comcast has Big Debt issues. They want EU to open as soon as possible.

That thought experiment is to highlight why new gates get built as fast as possible (or open before fully finished). Meanwhile new rides in a park that is already profitable doesn't need to be build at breakneck speeds.

Also, already operating theme parks want to spread out their new rides to bring back guests year after year. Of course, that doesn't satisfied those who go often and want something new every time they go.

The only one making a off the wall point here is you. You claimed there's no financial incentive to get the ride open, which is preposterous, because guess what, many customers will have no desire to visit your park until you get your new attraction open. We aren't all brand loyalty zombies who will return year-after-year no matter what, with nothing new to enjoy, and there are far too many complacent Disney fans who see its clientele in that unflattering light. No, many of us are impatiently waiting for that big, new thing you promised, and you're losing our money every day that passes without getting it open, even if you're able to continue operating through the generous donations of once-in-a-lifetime visitors who couldn't care less. They will not keep your park running indefinitely. You also NEED return visitors who actually want to return. That's the reality of the situation and their financial incentives.

 

[UNCgolf]

It's kind of a cultural shorthand at this point that exposed coaster track = unthemed, because for so long Disney never built such things [but they also didn't build many coasters to begin with for decades].

Barnstormer, Slinky Dog Dash, Raging Spirits and Primeval Whirl are all Disney examples of coasters with exposed track. The fact that they're all lackluster in some way, probably contributes to the dismissiveness coasters like them receive.

It's impossible to build something like Hagrid's or Hiccup's without seeing at least some track. I don't think it detracts to a large extent. Werewolf would have benefitted from being totally enclosed in the dark though.

It doesn't just apply to those -- it applies to stuff like Velocicoaster too. I know it's explained as a coaster at a tourist destination in theme, but it significantly detracts from the Jurassic Park area; it was much better as a themed environment before Velocicoaster existed.

I also think Hiccup's looks like it will detract, although I don't think Berk looks like a great themed land anyways, so meh.

Hagrid's is back in a corner, and not especially visible/in your face the way some other coasters are. I'd agree it doesn't really detract.