Universal Epic Universe (South Expansion Complex) - Opens May 22 2025

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djlaosc

Well-Known Member
surfsupdon said:
But even 500 rooms multiplied by 4 per room on average is only 2000 people in the park (assuming ALL 2000 entered the park, and no one goes to any other park).

I’d say give Helios free unlimited express pass and raise the rates by $200/night for that perk.
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Exactly - how many more staff member's would it take to be able to run Helios-exclusive express pass for the up to 2000 guests staying there at one time? If they were worried about capacity, just make it useable once on each ride per day.
 
HairyLegPirate

HairyLegPirate

Active Member
djlaosc said:
Exactly - how many more staff member's would it take to be able to run Helios-exclusive express pass for the up to 2000 guests staying there at one time? If they were worried about capacity, just make it useable once on each ride per day.
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It's almost certainly not about staff or pricing - I'm sure Express will get added eventually as a benefit for Helios eventually. But for the first new major theme park in Orlando in 25+ years, I'm willing to bet Universal isn't going to have Express at all for the first few years of operation. They're going to be prioritizing guest experience to try and make sure they are sending their guests and critics home preaching about how great the park is and how it is the new gold standard for theme parks. Part of that means making sure the park is running as efficiently as possible, which is going to be a lot easier for a brand new park to figure out when each attraction has just one queue before adding the capacity variable that is Express. Beyond that, keeping all guests on relatively equal footing when it comes to how they experience the park, particularly in its early days, helps minimize the sort of "pay to play" negative press that surrounds much of the Disney experience these days.

An early park entry gives Helios guests enough of a benefit to make it feel like they're getting something for their money while not at nearly the same expense to the average park guest experience that Express would have.
 
WDWFREAK53

WDWFREAK53

Well-Known Member
HairyLegPirate said:
It's almost certainly not about staff or pricing - I'm sure Express will get added eventually as a benefit for Helios eventually. But for the first new major theme park in Orlando in 25+ years, I'm willing to bet Universal isn't going to have Express at all for the first few years of operation. They're going to be prioritizing guest experience to try and make sure they are sending their guests and critics home preaching about how great the park is and how it is the new gold standard for theme parks. Part of that means making sure the park is running as efficiently as possible, which is going to be a lot easier for a brand new park to figure out when each attraction has just one queue before adding the capacity variable that is Express. Beyond that, keeping all guests on relatively equal footing when it comes to how they experience the park, particularly in its early days, helps minimize the sort of "pay to play" negative press that surrounds much of the Disney experience these days.

An early park entry gives Helios guests enough of a benefit to make it feel like they're getting something for their money while not at nearly the same expense to the average park guest experience that Express would have.
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Exactly. With the resort having it's own park entrance, those guests will get into the park quicker and get to the attractions they want the most before anybody else gets in.
 
trr1

trr1

Well-Known Member
looks like a new tier system for hotels at Universal ( from the website)
signature collection
Portofino Bay, Hard Rock, Royal Pacific.Sapphire Falls, and Helio's Grand Hotel
Prime Value
Adventura, Stella Nova, Terra Luna
Value inns and suites
Cabana Bay, Endless Summer Resort - Surfside Inn and Suites, Endless Summer Resort - Dockside Inn and Suites
 
rd805

rd805

Well-Known Member
WDWFREAK53 said:
Exactly. With the resort having it's own park entrance, those guests will get into the park quicker and get to the attractions they want the most before anybody else gets in.
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It's not a "good enough" perk for me as of yet -- i'm really hoping there is something we are missing coming along! I REALLY want to stay here and with the expected $$ value, some exclusive perks seem necessary. Here's to hoping for being able to go to Epic as many days as the hotel stay is? MAYBE!? Let's go Uni, hook us up!
 
ThemeParkTraveller

ThemeParkTraveller

Well-Known Member
Overall, the interior of Helios feels a bit too stark and minimalist for my taste, especially for a themed deluxe hotel. I was hoping for more of a gold color scheme to better align with the sun theme. The only space that truly impressed me with its theming was Bar Helios, with its ceiling painted with constellations.
 
L

lewisc

Well-Known Member
csmat99 said:
Nothing specific but wouldn't make sense to offer that perk that they have had for years and years and is huge perk on why people book top end hotels.
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Posted information on Universals site says Helios guests won't get Express.

A poster cited a Universal forum, FWIW, said contractually Universal agreed with Loews to offer hotel express to the first 3 hotels. Universal is not willing to offer it to other hotels; including Sapphire and Helios.
 
sedati

sedati

Well-Known Member
Looks like almost the entire budget went into the bars.

Aside from it's prominence, this hotel defies any attempt to hide its real-world scale.

In fact, Helios goes even further in the opposite direction. Look at the Grand Californian, Disneyland Hotel Paris, and Mira Costa. While not at proper theme park scale, they do at least mask this by scaling down the upper floors by using smaller windows.

1724475150024.png


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Compare that to Helios where the windows actually start off small and get larger and larger as you climb.

1724475562966.png
 
sedati

sedati

Well-Known Member
JT3000 said:
Who wants smaller windows?
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I remember a thousand posts decrying full-sized windows on the second floor of Disneyland‘s Club-33 (A justified criticism). Epic Universe is breaking many theme park norms with inconsistencies of scale being a big one. It’s probably best to not think of this as a full, cohesive theme park and instead recognize it as a gated retail corridor with themed mini lands attached.
 
J

JT3000

Well-Known Member
sedati said:
I remember a thousand posts decrying full-sized windows on the second floor of Disneyland‘s Club-33 (A justified criticism). Epic Universe is breaking many theme park norms with inconsistencies of scale being a big one. It’s probably best to not think of this as a full, cohesive theme park and instead recognize it as a gated retail corridor with themed mini lands attached.
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Well now you're just being silly. There's probably no theme park in existence that keeps a consistent scale between all of its lands. Most fail to keep their scale completely consistent within a single land, no matter how hard they try, including Disney's. We don't refer to any of them as "gated retail corridors." And for that matter, what even is the scale of Celestial Park supposed to be? Do we have evidence of forced perspective in use? Because I don't think I've seen any, and they would have to be utilizing tricks along those lines in the first place in order for the hotel to technically be out-of-scale with the rest of the land. Just having an imposing building in a theme park doesn't mean the scale is wrong.

Epic Universe also doesn't have "mini lands." It's not a small park, even if it isn't fully developed on day one.

How many of those posters decrying the size of the windows actually planned to use them? How many are staying in the top floor of that hotel?
 
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lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
sedati said:
Looks like almost the entire budget went into the bars.

Aside from it's prominence, this hotel defies any attempt to hide its real-world scale.

In fact, Helios goes even further in the opposite direction. Look at the Grand Californian, Disneyland Hotel Paris, and Mira Costa. While not at proper theme park scale, they do at least mask this by scaling down the upper floors by using smaller windows.

View attachment 811403

View attachment 811404

View attachment 811405

Compare that to Helios where the windows actually start off small and get larger and larger as you climb.

View attachment 811406
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sedati said:
I remember a thousand posts decrying full-sized windows on the second floor of Disneyland‘s Club-33 (A justified criticism). Epic Universe is breaking many theme park norms with inconsistencies of scale being a big one. It’s probably best to not think of this as a full, cohesive theme park and instead recognize it as a gated retail corridor with themed mini lands attached.
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You clearly don’t understand what you are talking about. The windows (and other design elements) at Club 33 were criticized because they were immediately adjacent to other elements that they contradicted. In this case you are referencing elements used to force the perspective. Those big windows betrayed that the buildings were not as big as they looked.

Smaller windows are only a “theme park
norm” because of the use of forced perspective. But you’ve mixed up how it works. Smaller windows as you go up would be part of making a building look bigger, not smaller. You can make a building looked smaller by using bigger windows and elements, see The American Adventure building.

There is no “proper theme park scale.” For one, it’s generally a misnomer repeated by people who don’t understand and two it assumes some sort of consistency that is not employed because it makes no sense. Forced perspective is an art, it is something designed that must vary based on the goal of the design. It is also employed due to cost. Epic Universe using less forced perspective is a perfectly valid design choice.
 
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DarkMetroid567

Well-Known Member
lazyboy97o said:
You clearly don’t understand what you are talking about. The windows (and other design elements) at Club 33 were criticized because they were immediately adjacent to other elements that they contradicted. In this case you are referencing elements used to force the perspective. Those big windows betrayed that the buildings were not as big as they looked.

Smaller windows are only a “theme park
norm” because of the use of forced perspective. But you’ve mixed up how it works. Smaller windows as you go up would be part of making a building look bigger, not smaller. You can make a building looked smaller by using bigger windows and elements, see The American Adventure building.

There is no “proper theme park scale.” For one, it’s generally a misnomer repeated by people who don’t understand and two it assumes some sort of consistency that is not employed because it makes no sense. Forced perspective is an art, it is something designed that must vary based on the goal of the design. It is also employed due to cost. Epic Universe using less forced perspective is a perfectly valid design choice.
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That critique is half-baked, but sorta makes some sense. If the scale of this map is accurate, it’s kinda crazy how much of a make-or-break Celestial Park is. The park is certainly not small, but the lands definitely are.
 

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