Universal Epic Universe (South Expansion Complex) - Opens 2025

[Sorcerer Mickey]

Do you remember when everyone expected Hagrid’s to be a Mack Inverted Powered Coaster? That didn’t come out of nowhere nor was it a false leak. The project started “active development” as an Inverted Powered Coaster and it changed to the motorbike coaster. Changing a ride system is a huge change. It’s a major component of the basic concept in which pretty much everything is designed.

Epic Universe received building permits for things not being built and you don’t get much more into active development than submitting drawings for approval.

So yes, concepts do change after “active development” starts.

I realize now my choice of words - in particular, the use of "active development" - was not the best. Let me rephrase my original statement -

Announcements tell you when the concept is more or less set in stone and ready for the construction/building phase of development, barring any unforeseen circumstances such as COVID.

Obviously a project can be considered in "active development" as soon as the pen hits the paper. But my point still stands that either Disney announces projects too early or takes too long to build them.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I realize now my choice of words - in particular, the use of "active development" - was not the best. Let me rephrase my original statement -

Announcements tell you when the concept is more or less set in stone and ready for the construction/building phase of development, barring any unforeseen circumstances such as COVID.

Obviously a project can be considered in "active development" as soon as the pen hits the paper. But my point still stands that either Disney announces projects too early or takes too long to build them.

No, announcements do not align with being near the start of construction, which is also not a static milestone. Construct often starts before design is complete, with Disney often doing it more deliberately than Universal.

Active development would not just be considered when pen hits the paper. There are five phases of design: Blue Sky, Concept, Schematic, Design Development, and Construction Documentation with plenty of design happening during construction. Moving from concept to schematic is major milestone that would best describe the start of active development as it is when dedicated project teams are really established. Disney tends to announce projects around this milestone when about 80% of the design work is still to be done.

Disney absolutely and unequivocally does announce projects earlier than Universal, but an announcement has none of the meaning regarding the design process you tried to attach. Disney’s overall project development process is longer and more expensive than Universal’s but not by much. There was a time when the delta was much greater but Universal has closed that gap. Looking at visible construction is meaningless because Disney makes greater use of fast-track project delivery processes that start construction before the design phases are completed.

 

[Sorcerer Mickey]

No, announcements do not align with being near the start of construction, which is also not a static milestone.

You're right on the first point. I remember Universal beginning construction on Kong, Dreamworks Land, Velocicoaster, and Minion Mayhem before announcing those projects.

Active development would not just be considered when pen hits the paper.

You took my original post too literally.

Looking at visible construction is meaningless because Disney makes greater use of fast-track project delivery processes that start construction before the design phases are completed.

Let's start with the facts. Universal announced Epic Universe on August 2019. Disney announced Splash Mountain on June 2020. Epic Universe is slated to open 2025. Splash Mountain opened June 2024. Six years for Epic, four for Splash.

We don't know how much time each project festered in development before they were made official. Neither began construction before they were announced. Do you think both projects were/will be completed in a reasonable timeframe? Remember, we're comparing a brand new theme park to a reskin of an existing attraction.

 

[sedati]

You know those movies where the big bully kid gets punched in the mouth?

The entryway is the one element that is an improvement over the original concept art.

That hotel... I'd honestly say this is worse than a castle cake, Mickey hat/wand, or DCA Hubcap. So big, dominating, bland, and worst of all permanent.

Half the lands (possibly 3/4 as I had heard a rumor about Isle of Berk but can't find more) have experiences that can only be had with additional purchase. The park's centerpiece is the resort's most expensive offering and looms over all else- this is not a background element or an entry element, this is literally the mountain on the horizon. It is thematically integrated in the most shallow sense. It is a big hotel that looks like a big hotel with a few embellishments making it "Celestial." It's lazy, uninspired, and I dearly hope is not something others will emulate.

A great new park, but also the most blatantly cash-grabbiest.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Just think back to 2020 when we were looking at an empty lot wondering if this was still happening.

That was just the pandemic pause. Land clearing started two years previously.

Meanwhile, it took 5 years for Epcot's development to be complete.

And 7 years for EU.


The land for EU started to be cleared in 2018.

Uni didn't announce what they were doing with it until 2019.

So from 'first shovel,' it will have taken 7 years to build EU.

That's including construction happening full time without having to work around a park open 10 hours a day.

 

[bwr827]

Half the lands (possibly 3/4 as I had heard a rumor about Isle of Berk but can't find more) have experiences that can only be had with additional purchase.

I don’t think I’ve heard about this. Do you mean Mario bands and Potter wands, or something different?

 

[lazyboy97o]

You're right on the first point. I remember Universal beginning construction on Kong, Dreamworks Land, Velocicoaster, and Minion Mayhem before announcing those projects.

You took my original post too literally.

Let's start with the facts. Universal announced Epic Universe on August 2019. Disney announced Splash Mountain on June 2020. Epic Universe is slated to open 2025. Splash Mountain opened June 2024. Six years for Epic, four for Splash.

We don't know how much time each project festered in development before they were made official. Neither began construction before they were announced. Do you think both projects were/will be completed in a reasonable timeframe? Remember, we're comparing a brand new theme park to a reskin of an existing attraction.

Just because something is a fact doesn’t mean it is a meaningful or useful piece of information.

If you don’t know how long a project has been in development then that seems like a pretty good reason to not comment on how long the project is taking. The design process though is not “festering in development” it is a necessity that all projects go through.

That you are comparing an attraction to a park is rather meaningless. The vast majority of the people working on Epic Universe are only focused on thing. Splash Mountain being rethemed was announced even earlier than Disney usually announces projects. I can dig up my posts from the time about how that was a problem because they were committing themselves to something before doing their due diligence to determine if it was even worth keeping the facility because renovations carry certain risks and those risks are significantly compounded when water is involved. Epic Universe was announced after construction had begun (but I’m sure you’ll again clarify that you meant a specific type of construction which is a big part of all of these comparisons people try to make). So these two things are a great example of projects being announced in very different phases of design, with one being announced very near the beginning and the other closer to the end.

Fun fact, Universal announced a third theme park for this site in 1999.

 

[bwr827]

Fun fact, Universal announced a third theme park for this site in 1999.

You mean just as Islands of Adventure was opening, they were announcing the next park and it was to be built where Epic is?

 

[lazyboy97o]

You mean just as Islands of Adventure was opening, they were announcing the next park and it was to be built where Epic is?

Yep.

UNIVERSAL’S PLANS FOR LOCKHEED LAND INCLUDE 3RD PARK

With work not yet complete on its current expansion, Universal Studios Escape already is turning its attention toward the big chunk of land it bought earlier this year from Lockheed Martin. Still a…

www.orlandosentinel.com

 

[bwr827]

Yep.

UNIVERSAL’S PLANS FOR LOCKHEED LAND INCLUDE 3RD PARK

With work not yet complete on its current expansion, Universal Studios Escape already is turning its attention toward the big chunk of land it bought earlier this year from Lockheed Martin. Still a…

www.orlandosentinel.com

Wow! So some might say Epic took 26 years to develop.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Wow! So some might say Epic took 26 years to develop.

Depends on the criteria one is using. There was also a period where Universal Orlando sold the land. So they even cancelled the park at one time.

It’ll be fascinating to see reactions to the new park in the UK. Given the intense planning approval process they have already announced the park and there is a good chance that the individual components of the park will have to be reviewed for approval. That means conceptual to schematic phase level drawings could be released as public records. Drawings that to a lot of people will look like “completed blueprints” even though they are nowhere near that level of completeness.

 

[sedati]

I don’t think I’ve heard about this. Do you mean Mario bands and Potter wands, or something different?

Like the Mario bands or Potter wands but specifically for Berk. I feel like I heard about it in one of Stella's videos, but it looks to have just been a rumor or simple speculation. I just remember rolling my eyes when I heard it.

That said, buying even two separate interactive items for two lands in the same park is egregious. I can see someone on here bragging about how they didn't have to deal with a Genie+ type system, yet paid for a top-dollar hotel and bought multiple interactive items (per child) on top of theme park admission, food, snacks, etc.

 

[JT3000]

Announcements tell you absolutely nothing.

A proper announcement certainly does tell you things. It tells you what sort of experiences they're expecting to build & typically how long you're expected to wait for them to do so. And if the parks don't yet have these basic details locked down, they shouldn't be announcing said projects yet. Point blank.

I'm willing to make exceptions for large, unforeseen issues such as Covid causing reasonable delays. Key word: reasonable.

Yep.

UNIVERSAL’S PLANS FOR LOCKHEED LAND INCLUDE 3RD PARK

With work not yet complete on its current expansion, Universal Studios Escape already is turning its attention toward the big chunk of land it bought earlier this year from Lockheed Martin. Still a…

www.orlandosentinel.com

That's a far cry from an announcement. If that's an announcement, Disney's "beyond Thunder Mountain" nonsense was practically a promise.

 

[JT3000]

The entryway is the one element that is an improvement over the original concept art.

That hotel... I'd honestly say this is worse than a castle cake, Mickey hat/wand, or DCA Hubcap. So big, dominating, bland, and worst of all permanent.

Half the lands (possibly 3/4 as I had heard a rumor about Isle of Berk but can't find more) have experiences that can only be had with additional purchase. The park's centerpiece is the resort's most expensive offering and looms over all else- this is not a background element or an entry element, this is literally the mountain on the horizon. It is thematically integrated in the most shallow sense. It is a big hotel that looks like a big hotel with a few embellishments making it "Celestial." It's lazy, uninspired, and I dearly hope is not something others will emulate.

A great new park, but also the most blatantly cash-grabbiest.

... you know it's not finished yet, right?


Right?

 

[JoeCamel]

Just think back to 2020 2015 when we were looking at an empty lot wondering if this was still happening.

FTFY

Riding the wheel shortly after it opened with a bunch of like minded people from all over the world and looking out at a future theme park. It was an amazing time for a theme park fan like me

 

[lazyboy97o]

A proper announcement certainly does tell you things. It tells you what sort of experiences they're expecting to build & typically how long you're expected to wait for them to do so. And if the parks don't yet have these basic details locked down, they shouldn't be announcing said projects yet. Point blank.

The Epic Universe announcement didn’t meet any of that criteria. Neither did the UK park announcement. Even now, Epic Universe is just a very vague “Opening in 2025.”

The DreamWorks Land announcement just mentioned the properties and 2024 opening.

So both Disney and Universal clearly disagree with the meaning people keep trying to ascribe to announcements.

 

[sedati]

... you know it's not finished yet, right?


Right?

We have the final concepts and it's far enough along to start judging. Even when the first concept art was released of a more themed hotel, this was still the one of the most shameless ideas I've ever seen pitched in theme park history. Yes, the dome will be gilded with a little celestial ring around its base and a decorative medallion below that links it in style to the entry gate. The rest is some paint, spit and polish.

Unless they've been keeping a great secret and this monstrosity is somehow Universal's answer to Tower of Terror, this is still a big hotel themed as a big hotel. You will pass by this thing throughout your day. You will stare at it and behold its hundreds of occupied rooms as you watch the nighttime fountain/projection/fireworks show. When has a hotel ever been the focal point of a park? Perhaps some occupants will take the opportunity and press ham on the glass as thousands watch.

Again, I dearly hope no other first-class theme park tries this again.

 

[JT3000]

The Epic Universe announcement didn’t meet any of that criteria. Neither did the UK park announcement. Even now, Epic Universe is just a very vague “Opening in 2025.”

The DreamWorks Land announcement just mentioned the properties and 2024 opening.

So both Disney and Universal clearly disagree with the meaning people keep trying to ascribe to announcements.

The Epic Universe announcement confirmed they were building a new park, which is what they're doing. Specific details were always going to come later. It also came with an opening window, which was missed due to Covid, but we were nonetheless given a reasonable idea of when to expect the project's completion. Even now, we know it's coming next year, which is still in-line with the pause in construction. We just don't know when exactly, because the projected time frame has been moved up, which is certainly more palatable than another delay. Either way, no one ever gives us an exact date this far out, not even for a single attraction, much less an entire park.

The UK park technically hasn't been "announced," as there's no actual confirmation that it's happening. They only revealed publicly that they were exploring the option because they were forced to. It could still be scrapped tomorrow for all we know.

Universal & Disney are both well aware of the expectations they're setting when they officially announce something. This is why they're usually careful to not include certain details or a time frame when these things are currently unavailable. And to their credit, Disney didn't initially give us a time frame for their Avatar project, nor did Universal with their Nintendo project. Still, do I personally think both projects were announced prematurely? Absolutely. You should never announce new attractions while still early in the design process. It serves no purpose other than to make for a more agonizing wait for guests. And yet there's still a big difference between making vague promises you'll get around to eventually and making explicit promises you can't keep, such as Tron's opening window, or the cancelled Marry Poppins attraction. Those were just bad.

 

[JT3000]

We have the final concepts and it's far enough along to start judging.

No, it really isn't.

 

[DKampy]

We have the final concepts and it's far enough along to start judging. Even when the first concept art was released of a more themed hotel, this was still the one of the most shameless ideas I've ever seen pitched in theme park history. Yes, the dome will be gilded with a little celestial ring around its base and a decorative medallion below that links it in style to the entry gate. The rest is some paint, spit and polish.

Unless they've been keeping a great secret and this monstrosity is somehow Universal's answer to Tower of Terror, this is still a big hotel themed as a big hotel. You will pass by this thing throughout your day. You will stare at it and behold its hundreds of occupied rooms as you watch the nighttime fountain/projection/fireworks show. When has a hotel ever been the focal point of a park? Perhaps some occupants will take the opportunity and press ham on the glass as thousands watch.

Again, I dearly hope no other first-class theme park tries this again.

I have to agree…If this was Disney people would be complaining about walking through a Marriott style hotel at the entrance…and that would be from the moment the first designs were available…. but it gets a pass because universal