Universal Creative VP Taking Over WDI Development

[nibblesandbits]

Yep. Also important to know that your views change when you've got a 3 year old and a 5 year old screaming to see Cinderella.

exactly, as someone who doesn't have that yet, I know I'm in the minority sometimes...but it really is about a good mixture...b/c when those 3 and 5 year old get bigger, they are going to want to be able to graduate into some of the bigger stuff too.

 

[pheneix]

Getting back on track, rumors are flying that GE is about to offload NBC Universal either as a whole or in pieces. If these are to be believed then its pretty clear why Scott Trowbridge is with WDI now.

 

[DisneyYorkian74]

Cedar Point is a seasonal park. Among the seasonals its the highest attended park in North America next to Canada's Wonderland. If Disney built in this region they would get about the same attendance.

You just said in an earlier post that you don't have the attendance figures for Cedar Point...

(And because a month to month analysis of WDW's attendance is not available to the public, you can't really make claims like that)

But that's really all irrelevant...

The fact of the matter is is that Disney style parks will always be 100X more successful than parks like Cedar Point so it wouldn't make any sense for Disney to start to build rides/park that would only cater to that type of crowd that only visits those types of parks.

And if Disney decided to build a park like all of their existing parks (excluding DCA ofcourse) then I'm sure it would be successful, but if they just went out and built an all "thrills park" then I really don't think it would.

 

[ImaYoyo]

They only run daily operations from May 16 - August 29. Weekends only from the start of May till the end of October.

I think you mean september til october for weekends only.
Right. Which would be 110 days of operation, give or take a few (not including weekends only. Averaging 45k over 110 days is 4,950,000. Just shy of 5 million.

 

[ImaYoyo]

exactly, as someone who doesn't have that yet, I know I'm in the minority sometimes...but it really is about a good mixture...b/c when those 3 and 5 year old get bigger, they are going to want to be able to graduate into some of the bigger stuff too.

Completely true. However, when they get up to that age, they're buying less merchandise, and most likely since they have busier lives, they're visiting the parks less. Which is why you see some of those attractions, but not a lot. It's a mixture like you say, that's all relative to what brings in the most revenue.

 

[nibblesandbits]

Completely true. However, when they get up to that age, they're buying less merchandise, and most likely since they have busier lives, they're visiting the parks less. Which is why you see some of those attractions, but not a lot. It's a mixture like you say, that's all relative to what brings in the most revenue.

true...very true.

 

[pheneix]

You just said in an earlier post that you don't have the attendance figures for Cedar Point...

(And because a month to month analysis of WDW's attendance is not available to the public, you can't really make claims like that)

Yes, I can. Disney would not be able to operate a theme park in that region year round. Period. The labor doesn't exist and the climate does not support it. Their attendance would be limited to the summer season much like every other regional park.

Right. Which would be 110 days of operation, give or take a few (not including weekends only. Averaging 45k over 110 days is 4,950,000. Just shy of 5 million.

I should have defined "summer" as Memorial Day through 2nd week of August, which is where the lions share of theme park business occurs in Orlando. Business falls off a cliff here after the 2nd week of August when the kids start going back to school. I think their total haul last summer was around 3 million guests.

Also, business in September and October at GA is not nearly as high as summer attendance. Their water park has been enormously successful at driving summer business at GA. I was involved with a project last summer studying how Great America was so successful at growing their business while the rest of the Six Flags chain was going belly up. The 45,000 figure sticks with me because I did not believe that any regional park outside of Cedar Point had the capacity to pull that kind of business. Great America does.

Another major flaw in the argument about how succesful Disney is over their competitors is that the Magic Kingdom/Disneyland/Epcot figures are the first to be submitted for comparison, as they are the highest. Disney's other parks have not been nearly as successful and really only have the advantage of having older siblings to leech off of to keep things going in the off season. In fact, Epcot is the only theme park outside of the Magic Kingdom(s) that has proven to be successful at drawing major business year round. If one were to study new ways to grow a theme park Epcot would be a good place to start.

 

[Master Yoda]

A coaster like Expedition Everest and the coasters you'll find at IOA are completely different.

It's the difference between telling a story and incorporating a lot of detailed theming, compared with just metal and steel, fast speed, and a lot of loops.

There's a big difference between a "Bad A$$" thrill ride and a Disney thrill ride.

Disney won't be making any money if they decided to throw out their extremely successful "Disney thrill ride" formula in favor of just building a bunch of "Bad A$$" ones.

True, but you did not differentiate between the 2 in your original post. You simply said "thrill rides".

I'll be the first to agree there is a huge difference between a Disney thrill ride and any other thrill ride. I do not want some unthemed steel behemoth like the hulk in the middle of WDW. I will take a well themed "Disney thrill" like E:E or BTMRR over that option any day.

 

[DisneyYorkian74]

Yes, I can. Disney would not be able to operate a theme park in that region year round. Period. The labor doesn't exist and the climate does not support it. Their attendance would be limited to the summer season much like every other regional park.

What does Disney not being able to "operate a theme park year round" and "labor not existing" have to do with you proving your Cedar Point summer attendance figure claims which you already stated that you don't have?...:shrug:

Cedar Point and one single Six Flags park being moderately successful compared to Disney does not justify Disney building more rides like you'll find at those types of parks.

Look at the parks near Disneyland in California.

Those parks are opened year round and offer thrills 100X bigger, better, and faster than anything you'll find at Disneyland. And they're just 10-30 minutes away from DLR.

And look at Busch Gardens in Tampa. It has the prime location as well. Open year-round. And is a park that offers coasters 100X bigger, better, and faster than anything you'll find at both Disney or Universal yet the park is making far less money and receives far less attendance.

The reasons why "thrill only parks" don't work and don't bring in more people could go on and on really...

 

[pheneix]

The main point I'm trying to make is that by not building those kinds of rides they are neglecting a nice chunk of business. Disney can build a major coaster with loops and launches and theme it right and have a real success on their hands (they already have in Paris).

Disney obviously realizes this because they hired the top guy in the theme park business that specializes in creating high octane thrill rides in fully themed in environments.

As far as everything else, that argument has been exhausted. What's really important is what Scott Trowbridge will be doing for Disney (and I've been told his work will be focused on WDW). I bet Universal is scared to death right now. He was the heart and soul behind every great project they've ever accomplished. No one in Universal Creative is going to fill the void he is leaving.

 

[DisneyYorkian74]

True, but you did not differentiate between the 2 in your original post. You simply said "thrill rides".

I'll be the first to agree there is a huge difference between a Disney thrill ride and any other thrill ride. I do not want some unthemed steel behemoth like the hulk in the middle of WDW. I will take a well themed "Disney thrill" like E:E or BTMRR over that option any day.

The post I quoted talked about building more "Bad A$$" thrill rides in WDW, so I figured people would understand what I was trying to say...

I didn't realize it would cause this much confusion:shrug:

But I'm actually in the minority who wouldn't really mind if Disney built "Bad A$$" thrill rides in WDW.

But I also know that those are the types of rides that only appeal to a certain age group and do not/would not bring lots of people to a theme park.

So building those types of thrill rides is not the road Disney should take for the future.

 

[jakeman]

Not to be a thread killer or anything, but wasn't this announced like 5 minutes ago?

I'm pretty sure this guys hasn't even finished cleaning out his office, much less found the time to convince WDI that the castle needs a few loops around it.

Maybe we should wait and see instead of jumping to conclusions...

I have faith that Disney can incorporate theming into thrills adequately. So unless they catch this guy sneaking on to Tom Sawyer's Island with some coaster track in a backpack making the "Jack Sparrow's Unthemed Coster of Doom", I'm not going to worry about it.

 

[JLW11Hi]

Not to be a thread killer or anything, but wasn't this announced like 5 minutes ago?

I'm pretty sure this guys hasn't even finished cleaning out his office, much less found the time to convince WDI that the castle needs a few loops around it.

Maybe we should wait and see instead of jumping to conclusions...

I have faith that Disney can incorporate theming into thrills adequately. So unless they catch this guy sneaking on to Tom Sawyer's Island with some coaster track in a backpack making the "Jack Sparrow's Unthemed Coster of Doom", I'm not going to worry about it.

I think I'd love going on an attraction called "Jack Sparrow's Unthemed Coaster of Doom"

:lol:

 

[jmvd20]

Right, thrill rides don't attract people, that is why Disney built RnR, ToT, EE, closed WoM for TT and destroyed Horizons to build M:S. Of course they broke attendance records after making thos changes.

As far as CP being compared to the Disney parks goes it is like trying to decide who is better at basketball - the Denver Broncos or the Seattle Mariners.

They are 2 different kinds of parks and CP is a great place as are any of the Disney parks.

Don't get me wrong - Splash Mountain and Expedition Everest are beautifuly themed rides, but sometimes those big steel behemoths are beautiful in their own "magical" way!

 

[ImaYoyo]

Where did anyone say thrill rides don't attract people? Please show me where. What is being discussed here are thrill rides in moderation, and ones that as many people can enjoy as possible. Thrill rides mixed in with a higher number of family rides and shows. Thrill rides with lower height restrictions. Thrill rides that are not overly thrilling. Families with young children, the people that make up the majority of the revenue at WDW, aren't looking for a ton of thrills. They're looking for family entertainment with thrills on the side.



That being said, let it be known that I'm a CP lover. BIG Gemini Fan, and Millenium Force comes in a close 2nd for me.

But I understand that my demographic (2 adults, no kids, looking for resort-atmosphere) would be spending a LOT more money at Disney Parks (resort, sit-down meals at high-quality restaurants, golf, spas, ect) than we would be spending at CP (admission, MAYBE hotel for 1 night at Breakers, quick-service food).

Point being, the demographic that brings in the most money is not the coaster-loving thrill seeker, but the merchandise gobbing pirate/princess/insert current fad here lover.

Right, thrill rides don't attract people, that is why Disney built RnR, ToT, EE, closed WoM for TT and destroyed Horizons to build M:S. Of course they broke attendance records after making thos changes.

As far as CP being compared to the Disney parks goes it is like trying to decide who is better at basketball - the Denver Broncos or the Seattle Mariners.

They are 2 different kinds of parks and CP is a great place as are any of the Disney parks.

Don't get me wrong - Splash Mountain and Expedition Everest are beautifuly themed rides, but sometimes those big steel behemoths are beautiful in their own "magical" way!

 

[EpcotServo]

WOW! That's big news! He pretty much lead all the great Universal rides to greatness! WDI R&D should be the perfect spot for him! On behalf of everybody here, welcome to Disney!

 

[dandaman]

Absolutely. Regardless of thrill, they knew how to make good, fully developed themed attractions at Uni/IOA.

My first thought at seeing the thread title. I'm quite excited for this new move.

 

[jmvd20]

Where did anyone say thrill rides don't attract people? Please show me where.

If anyone would have stated those exact words I would have quoted them on it. However after reading the last several pages of this thread an overall theme became apparent to me. Not to mention that some comments have definitely implied the following even though it was nopt specifically stated as such:

(Thrill rides don't bring in the number of people like typical old school Disney attractions do - thus the reason why WDW is so successful yet places like CP and Six Flags lag very far behind.)

All I did was point out the fact that the majority of new WDW attractions have indeed been thrill rides. That kind of dispells the theory that thrill rides only play to a small demographic of our population - being as WDW attendance numbers are on the rise and breaking records.

The best part of all this is that I have generally agreed with everything *you* have stated thus far! :wave:

 

[dandaman]

Cedar Point is an Amusement Park, not a Theme Park. They aren't even trying to compete with the Universals and Disneys of the world.

A fact I appreciate. I honestly don't think the current Cedar Fair could maintain heavily themed rides all that well. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: World-class thrills come from both Cedar Point and Disney (and Universal, to clear that up). If you love thrills, learn to appreciate both ends of the spectrum and you'll have a great time at either park. :wave:

But I do know what parks make the top visited theme parks list each year and Cedar Point is not in the top 10.

You're right; it's not a theme(d) park to begin with, let alone year-round. :shrug:

Sometimes those big steel behemoths are beautiful in their own "magical" way!

Now THAT I can agree with.

 

[michaelcostella]

Very interesting, you wouldnt think that Disney would hire someone from a competing company. Whatever is best for the company i guess.