Typhoon Lagoon New Raft Ride - Miss Adventure Falls

[andysol]

Then they should own it.

They're trying to sell this as a "Water Theme Park" when it's becoming strikingly clear that they've chosen other priorities.

Let me be clear, it is 100% fine to choose other priorities.

With that said, this park simply is not shaping up to break ground in immersion. It's going to be a beautiful environment with a great roster, but this is not unprecedented immersion. This park is not on track to live up to its' lofty marketing. This park is simply not going to live up to the Wizarding World of Harry Potter. It's not radically better than everything that has come before it.

It's an iterative park, using existing ideas, with well known slides. That doesn't make it crap. This park should be awesome. It does mean that it will leave room for guests and critics to prefer other Water Parks. It means that immersion falls short of several other water parks.

On balance will it still be the best Water Park in the world? Maybe. It does look like between the roster, certain guest areas, and special features it should be a compelling park. Maybe best in Orlando. Will it be the most immersive? That's looking doubtful. It's a shame they didn't make a "Volcano Bay Hotel" that would reinforce the park if they had to build hotel directly adjacent to the park. The generic hotel towers are peculiar.

In the end, at least for me, I think it doesn't really have much to do with Disney Vs. Universal. The real important thing is Universal vs. Universal. This park is great, but it doesn't meet their standard.

The Miss Adventure Falls looks decent. Maybe a little sparse. I'd have authorized a couple more show scenes. I think they missed an opportunity.

All and all still a good addition!

I think it's unfair to universal to expect this park to be "the WWoHP of water parks". As they've never mentioned it as such. In fact- in their marketing- they've never harped on immersion once. Their marketing has been pushing "exhilaration, excitement, and relaxation". I believe that would be them "owning it", as you said.
They are also calling it a water "theme" park- which id agree with. It'd be like calling IoA or Epcot an amusement park when they are clearly a cut above. Remember that Disney does list their 2 water parks as theme parks internationally- so it's not that they disagree either, as well they shouldn't.

I believe Universal's entire effort with this park has been to extend your time at their parks and offer a complete experience. Unlike the majority of the people in this thread- I've been to typhoon lagoon until 1am twice now for DVC parties- whereas it normally closes during the day and is rarely open in the evenings over the course of the year. While I enjoy it at night, it clearly wasn't designed around being open at night. Whereas volcano bay will be- in particular with a projection/light show on the volcano itself. I'm interested to see these details for sure, as nighttime shows are their weakest link (arguably with their daytime parade).

Are there other water parks in the world with Q-bots? Yes.
Are there other water parks that carry all the tubes up to you? Yes.
Are there other water parks with that massive of a collection of slides? Yes.
Wild and lazy rivers? Yes.
But none them combine all of those features and then throws on interactive RFID objects, nighttime show, table service restaurant, lineless queues, and a multidirectional wave pool- all of which are new to the industry.
And that's just what we know so far. I'm positive there will be one or two more things that come out that wow us even further.

So yes, "immersion" is likely not their focus as much as full blown entertainment and care-free, no planning needed, relaxation.

I think people get so caught up on The "well, this park has that". And "well- this park has THAT" etc- but don't put 2 and 2 together and realize that this park takes the best out of all those parks and combines them into one location within walking distance to 4 of their on-site resorts and a 5 minute bus ride for their other 2 all as a means to keep you there an entire day. Hell- there are world class theme parks we call "half day" parks. Trying to keep you all day for a water park is pretty damned ambitious and we shall see if they can pull it off.

 

[DDLand]

I think it's unfair to universal to expect this park to be "the WWoHP of water parks". As they've never mentioned it as such. In fact- in their marketing- they've never harped on immersion once. Their marketing has been pushing "exhilaration, excitement, and relaxation". I believe that would be them "owning it", as you said.
They are also calling it a water "theme" park- which id agree with. It'd be like calling IoA or Epcot an amusement park when they are clearly a cut above. Remember that Disney does list their 2 water parks as theme parks internationally- so it's not that they disagree either, as well they shouldn't.

I believe Universal's entire effort with this park has been to extend your time at their parks and offer a complete experience. Unlike the majority of the people in this thread- I've been to typhoon lagoon until 1am twice now for DVC parties- whereas it normally closes during the day and is rarely open in the evenings over the course of the year. While I enjoy it at night, it clearly wasn't designed around being open at night. Whereas volcano bay will be- in particular with a projection/light show on the volcano itself. I'm interested to see these details for sure, as nighttime shows are their weakest link (arguably with their daytime parade).

Are there other water parks in the world with Q-bots? Yes.
Are there other water parks that carry all the tubes up to you? Yes.
Are there other water parks with that massive of a collection of slides? Yes.
Wild and lazy rivers? Yes.
But none them combine all of those features and then throws on interactive RFID objects, nighttime show, table service restaurant, lineless queues, and a multidirectional wave pool- all of which are new to the industry.
And that's just what we know so far. I'm positive there will be one or two more things that come out that wow us even further.

So yes, "immersion" is likely not their focus as much as full blown entertainment and care-free, no planning needed, relaxation.

I think people get so caught up on The "well, this park has that". And "well- this park has THAT" etc- but don't put 2 and 2 together and realize that this park takes the best out of all those parks and combines them into one location within walking distance to 4 of their on-site resorts and a 5 minute bus ride for their other 2 all as a means to keep you there an entire day. Hell- there are world class theme parks we call "half day" parks. Trying to keep you all day for a water park is pretty damned ambitious and we shall see if they can pull it off.

"Made up of four immersive areas filled with innovative opportunities for thrills and rejuvenation, Universal’s Volcano Bay™ is an all-new water theme park like none other. Here you’ll find a full day’s worth of fun set to the tune of a comforting island breeze and breathtakingly lush views."

"This addition will join Universal Studios Florida and Universal’s Islands of Adventure as our destination’s third highly-immersive park and will be called Universal’s Volcano Bay. "

"Spanning 30 fully immersive acres and featuring a variety of experiences ranging from daring to serene, Volcano Bay will offer something for everyone..."

"The park is being brought to life by the Universal Creative team. These are the same people who created The Wizarding World of Harry Potter, The Amazing Adventures of Spider-Man and everything else that is great about our theme parks. They are bringing the same level of imagination, innovation, immersion and adventure to Volcano Bay that they have brought to all the rest of what we do."

They started this.

When they put Volcano Bay in the same league as IOA and USF they invited individuals to judge it by that standard. IOA has some of the most immersive areas in the world. They've sold this park wrong. If it was meant to be just a very good water park, they should have sold it like that. Instead we've got all this marketing suggesting something entirely different. They've said this will set the standard.

Harry Potter succeeded not just by great attractions; they critically used total immersion in the story too. Several Florida and International rivals have pulled it off. Volcano Bay is increasingly looking like it won't.

What does the Universal name mean? Is Harry Potter an anomaly? Volcano Bay is supposed to be more than a Water Park. It's supposed to be the best.

It's a Water "Theme" Park right?

 

[raven]

Let's not forget that while Disney waterparks promptly close at 5pm, Volcano Bay will be open for 18 hours per day, well into the evening hours with unique nighttime experiences.

[Disney] just spent a fortune (by waterpark standards for a single slide) on Miss Adventure and as people have noticed, it trends way toward the family demo.

The "fortune" was most likely spent on R&D. That translates to "your money in our pockets." They've trained their guests to believe they are getting a one-of-a-kind experience but in reality it's only sub par. Then after everything is said and done they will raise the admission price, cut park hours and staff and guests will still bite.

Not me.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

"Made up of four immersive areas filled with innovative opportunities for thrills and rejuvenation, Universal’s Volcano Bay™ is an all-new water theme park like none other. Here you’ll find a full day’s worth of fun set to the tune of a comforting island breeze and breathtakingly lush views."

"This addition will join Universal Studios Florida and Universal’s Islands of Adventure as our destination’s third highly-immersive park and will be called Universal’s Volcano Bay. "

"Spanning 30 fully immersive acres and featuring a variety of experiences ranging from daring to serene, Volcano Bay will offer something for everyone..."

"The park is being brought to life by the Universal Creative team. These are the same people who created The Wizarding World of Harry Potter, The Amazing Adventures of Spider-Man and everything else that is great about our theme parks. They are bringing the same level of imagination, innovation, immersion and adventure to Volcano Bay that they have brought to all the rest of what we do."

They started this.

When they put Volcano Bay in the same league as IOA and USF they invited individuals to judge it by that standard. IOA has some of the most immersive areas in the world. They've sold this park wrong. If it was meant to be just a very good water park, they should have sold it like that. Instead we've got all this marketing suggesting something entirely different. They've said this will set the standard.
ill be an immersive experience.
Harry Potter succeeded not just by great attractions; they critically used total immersion in the story too. Several Florida and International rivals have pulled it off. Volcano Bay is increasingly looking like it won't.

What does the Universal name mean? Is Harry Potter an anomaly? Volcano Bay is supposed to be more than a Water Park. It's supposed to be the best.

It's a Water "Theme" Park right?

The Disney faithful are tryin' real hard.

It is rather amusing.

It reminds me of international travelers that are used to 4 star hotels in America all having white comforters as the standard and then they arrive at the 7 star Burj Al Arab and have a fit about the gaudy and tacky hand woven Chinese silk comforter.

Yes, once again, Universal isn't following Disney's "rules" and the Disney fans truly don't get it.

 

[Disney Analyst]

Yikes- I clearly forgot about all the written verbiage and was using their video marketing.

In their defense- should they say "These are the same people who created Shrek 4D and The Eighth Voyage of Sinbad"

As for Harry Potter being an anomaly- yes- I believe it is. Universal Creative has yet to outshine Disney without the critical input of JK Rowling. Then again, Disney hasn't been able to outshine Disney the last 20 years either... (here's hoping Pandora changes this, which I believe it will).

But as for you saying "It's supposed to be the best"- I believe it will be. I truly do. I feel we need to wait until we see the offerings, and then decide. The level of detail on the interactivity, the use of new technology (such as the wave pool), the detail of the restaurant(s) and stores/bathrooms, and the length and effectiveness of the volcano night show can all have the ability to make this park truly special. Or not. Or even additional things we might not yet know- will there be an elaborate AA? Will there be "street" performers/dancers? This, more than possibly anything we've had on the books for the past decade, shouldn't be judged prior to opening.

In response to the bolded... clarification is needed. Disney had outshined it self several
times in the last several years... just not in Orlando. TDO is your problem.

 

[CJR]

Volcano bay is starting to take shape with the landscaping and is looking better by the day...I think it'll be a great addition to Orlando...I'm as equally interested in seeing how Disney, and Aquatica react.

Volcano Bay will be an excellent addition to Orlando, but I don't see it doing a lot of damage to the other water parks, at least in peak season. Although it's definitely going to make things more competitive overall, the busy summers will still see all of the parks at or near capacity. From what I've heard, Volcano Bay's weakness might be its capacity.

Have they revealed what VB's capacity is going to be? I'm sure it'll be much higher than WnW, but I expect it to be lower than both TL and BB. Aquatica fills up most weekends during the summer so I don't see that changing, it's the least of Sea World's problems at the moment. Disney's advantage is that since they have two parks, they don't have to outright turn guests away, they can simply direct them to their other water park. The new attraction at TL looks to be pretty good on capacity too.

 

[Princess Leia]

The two slides in the volcano are way steeper than I was expecting

 

[Disneyhead'71]

The two slides in the volcano are way steeper than I was expecting

And those are the less intense drop slides. The really scary one is on the other side.

 

[DDLand]

The Disney faithful are tryin' real hard.

It is rather amusing.

It reminds me of international travelers that are used to 4 star hotels in America all having white comforters as the standard and then they arrive at the 7 star Berg and have a fit about the gaudy and tacky hand woven Chinese silk comforter.

Yes, once again, Universal isn't following Disney's "rules" and the Disney fans truly don't get it.

I get you're looking forward to watching the light show sipping a drink, but does that make any critiques unwarranted?

I'm totally on the Volcano Bay will be a success Train. I see the tactical brilliance of this move. I think it's the perfect complement to the hotels and parks. I think the roster will be awesome, and the best one in Orlando. I think this Miss Adventure Falls is clearly a response to Volcano Bay. I think people will love Volcano Bay.

Yet in the critical area of immersion, I find some of their choices showing either poor planning or a lack of care. Now you can argue that the benefits outweigh the costs, and that's a valid point. Completely ignoring the issues doesn't make them go away.

Can someone make a critique without being a Disney nut?

Like I said, I wouldn't be shocked if it ends up being the best Water Park in the world. It's certainly going to be in the running. It's just disappointing that Volcano Bay is making some strange design decisions that weaken the project, especially when Uni Creative could have done better given the opportunity.

 

[999th Happy Haunt]

I am truly looking forward to Volcano Bay at Universal. Even if you're not a fan of Universal and are a Disney purist, you should be glad about how much competition between the two this will bring to the table, and how Disney will push to improve it's parks.

 

[raven]

Volcano Bay will be an excellent addition to Orlando, but I don't see it doing a lot of damage to the other water parks, at least in peak season. Although it's definitely going to make things more competitive overall, the busy summers will still see all of the parks at or near capacity. From what I've heard, Volcano Bay's weakness might be its capacity.

Have they revealed what VB's capacity is going to be? I'm sure it'll be much higher than WnW, but I expect it to be lower than both TL and BB. Aquatica fills up most weekends during the summer so I don't see that changing, it's the least of Sea World's problems at the moment. Disney's advantage is that since they have two parks, they don't have to outright turn guests away, they can simply direct them to their other water park. The new attraction at TL looks to be pretty good on capacity too.

Disney still closes their waterparks at 5pm though. And if they turn away guests to direct them to the other park it's more complicated than that. They have to take a bus back to a resort then transfer to another bus going to the other park. That alone can take a good hour. And with the short park hours and long waits for slides, that kind of eats away your day.

 

[CrescentLake]

Disney still closes their waterparks at 5pm though. And if they turn away guests to direct them to the other park it's more complicated than that. They have to take a bus back to a resort then transfer to another bus going to the other park. That alone can take a good hour. And with the short park hours and long waits for slides, that kind of eats away your day.

Why don't they keep them open late? Lack of demand? Operational costs? Both?

 

[raven]

Why don't they keep them open late? Lack of demand? Operational costs? Both?

Cost. I'm sure if they stayed open later they would have plenty of guests that would stay, provided they keep all of their slides open.

 

[andysol]

Cost. I'm sure if they stayed open later they would have plenty of guests that would stay, provided they keep all of their slides open.

As I said earlier- Ive been to Typhoon Lagoon late into the night (and early morning) at two DVC parties. It was really cool. Completely different vibe- and the lighting isn't up to snuff on the walkways- particularly near the rides- but it was still a great look- in particular the Wave Pool.
Why the don't keep it open- I don't know other than- they don't have to. Its still the #1 and 2 attended water parks in the country. They already have your money and attendance- so truly, why?

Some would argue Volcano Bay might force some nighttime offerings at WDW- although I highly doubt it. VB is much more of an impact on the Uni resort as a whole and keeping folks on-site an extra day vs taking share from WDW's water parks. And it worked on me- I'm skipping Disney in Sept and doing a Uni only trip (outside of the free DAK DVC event- which I'll see Pandora) because I am that excited about Volcano Bay. So Pandora will still get my attendance for the free event that night (and my one DVC room), but Universal Orlando as a whole will get my attendance, on-site hotel stay, and money for 4 days.

 

[Magic Feather]

To my knowledge, the cost to demand ratio was off for Typhoon and Blizzard (and I expect the same to eventually be true for Volcano Bay). When said thing happens, I expect for the park to stay open just late enough for a Volcano show or two, and then cut.

PS: It is embarrassing when your (supplemental) water park is open longer than either of your (star) theme parks.

 

[CJR]

Disney still closes their waterparks at 5pm though. And if they turn away guests to direct them to the other park it's more complicated than that.

I would imagine they're turning away very few guests after 5pm that otherwise wouldn't have went earlier in the day. See my comment below about the hotel pools, which in my opinion is a good indication of guest demand (since almost exclusively hotel guests would be the ones on buses, residents and off site guests would most likely use a car).

With demand lower later in the day, it's very different from turning away guests at peak hours, which Aquatica does a good chunk of the summer and VB probably will do.

EDIT: There's a difference between guests staying and more guests paying for admission. This is a business decision to moderate cost. If demand was high enough to make more profit by keeping the water parks open later, I'm sure Disney would. Obviously though, they don't and this is a company always looking for ways to make a dollar more.

Why don't they keep them open late? Lack of demand? Operational costs? Both?

My guess would be a bit of both, but mostly demand. Just look at the hotel pools around 2/3pm vs. 9/10pm. EDIT: To add, if the water parks stayed open after dark, wouldn't that also defeat the purpose of the nighttime swimming hours at the resorts?

Also, Disney's water parks are open later in the summer months, as late as 8pm. Attendance is definitely lower in those last few hours than it is earlier in the day.

The difference between Disney's parks and VB is that Volcano Bay will have features specifically designed for after dark. That could keep people later or draw in new guests, assuming the park is not already at capacity. I do think, come January next year, Volcano Bay won't be open until 9pm, when it's dark around 5:30pm. We'll see though, I just don't see how it would be economical for Universal to have flat hours all year round. I could see it being open maybe an hour or so later than Disney's parks in the off season, but I don't envision a lot of demand at 9pm in January. Not that I care, if Universal wants to keep VB open that late, it's their money.

 

[Tom Morrow]

I hadn't taken into consideration that this park will be open after dark. If it has an impressive lighting package, that will be awesome and unique for sure.

The Disney faithful are tryin' real hard.

It is rather amusing.

It reminds me of international travelers that are used to 4 star hotels in America all having white comforters as the standard and then they arrive at the 7 star Burj Al Arab and have a fit about the gaudy and tacky hand woven Chinese silk comforter.

Yes, once again, Universal isn't following Disney's "rules" and the Disney fans truly don't get it.

So holding them to their own marketing claims = Disney pixie dust snorter

 

[seascape]

VB is designed and geared for those staying on property. The size of the park and limited capacity is to drive up interest and allow them to charge more. It is a brilliant idea. Not having separate parking also show who it is for. Their parking garages already fill up in the summer.

 

[Rider]

Disney still closes their waterparks at 5pm though. And if they turn away guests to direct them to the other park it's more complicated than that. They have to take a bus back to a resort then transfer to another bus going to the other park. That alone can take a good hour. And with the short park hours and long waits for slides, that kind of eats away your day.

Only in the slow season. In summer they are open until 7 or 8.
https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/calendars/2017-06-21/

 

[Jon81uk]

PS: It is embarrassing when your (supplemental) water park is open longer than either of your (star) theme parks

I get your point, but I imagine one reason could be so guests at the resort hotels can use the water park in the evening, so leave the theme park at 5pm then spend 6pn to 10pm at the waterpark.