Typhoon Lagoon New Raft Ride - Miss Adventure Falls

RandySavage

Well-Known Member
^Was Shark Reef closed soley to save a little money/reach a particular executive performance goal?! Assuming the answer is 'yes.'

I know it's the new (not-so-new) normal, but it's still an inexcusable way to operate crown jewel and cash cow WDW. Damn the people responsible for these kinds of incentives/operating policies (up to and including Chapek & Iger).
 

rushtest4echo

Well-Known Member
That's interesting, where is your proof that Volcano Bay slides are "off the shelf out of the Proslide catalog"? That would be news to both Universal Creative and Proslide themselves, but if you do: please post. Proslide does not do "off the shelf" with the possible exception of the "Six Flags" Tornado model. Even then, each of those installations were slightly modified to fit the site where it was installed.

Of course they're not off the shelf in terms of being cloned. They're off the shelf in terms of being standard offerings throughout the industry. You seem to know quite a bit about water parks (certainly more than me), so you're already aware of this being a pretty typical assortment of slides- many of which are down the street at Aquatica or were even at Wet n Wild (smaller or larger models, but the same model type and similar layout).

As for so called innovation, it can come in different forms and in the case of Volcano Bay, Universal concentrated on getting the best slide selection in the world with the new toys tossed in. Disney's goal here was quite different I feel: Typhoon Lagoon needed capacity and a new slide with no height restriction. Sure, I would have loved an Hydromagnetic Mammoth Water Coaster like at Holiday World, but did the park really need a 4th water coaster and yet another new slide with a 42 inches height restriction? Now, if you were talking say a Mammoth Water Coaster/Tornado 60 Hybrid for Blizzard Beach...

You'd consider this the best selection in the world? Not that I'm trying to dispute it, but that's your honest opinion? OCT seems to be pumping out contracts for selections as impressive as or bigger than what's at VB. And Holiday World is a wonderful little place- I still haven't brought myself to doing their (excellent looking) waterpark since they've got better things to ride that don't put me in the water with rural Indianian's (I kid, I kid... sort of).

I have said it before and will say it again: there are new innovations coming to Volcano Bay water slides and some of them will be eye opening. One of them is visible in plain sight, the TornadoWALL/TornadoWall Hybrid slide which has never been done before. The ride is absolutely amazing with just one Wall element and now, Proslide designed one with two? Just that slide is enough to get me to book a day at the park in November.

I hope it's as good as you say it is. I have my doubts that there will be any speed at all to carry people up the second wall though. Hope I'm wrong. Now if they'd just theme the thing!

Last, you don't need to go to Asia or the Middle East for the best water parks. A trip to Tenerife (Canary Islands), Melgar (near Bogota, Colombia) or near Montreal will cover that nicely. All three parks are perfectly operated, have amazing and unique attractions and are located in nice areas to visit.

Oh certainly there are wonderful waterparks all over the earth and plenty closer than Asia or the Middle East. Those just seem to be massive hotbeds for the industry at the moment and personally I feel that they're at least equally as impressive as anything VB has to offer slide wise, guest service wise, innovation wise, and/or selection wise. That slide in Montreal looks fab, I wish Universal would have gone with more than one hydrmagnetic offering. Kind of stinks to see Holiday World outdoing Universal in that category. It would have massively helped throughput at VB too to have something like Mammoth there. I'm still baffled at how Universal justified having a single slide version with limited capacity compared to the full offering that other parks have made use of. I know it'll have the dark-ride-esque portions, but it's still off considering most other parks with single water-coasters aren't at the top of the industry like Universal was apparently gunning for.

Again, it'll be a fun park. I'll enjoy my visits, as will most people i'm sure. But to claim that this is some revolution in waterparks is silly. The only revolution I see is the inevitable disaster that'll come from trying to manage non-standby queues. I'm interested to see how they get that all up and running. Has any other ride, let alone park, ever been reservation only? I can only think of two examples, one being Everland and the other being for Veruckt before that deathtrap claimed its first (and thankfully only) victim. Glad they're tearing it down and I'm shocked that any insurer/inspector ever gave that company a green light to open that "water slide".

Back to Typhoon though- I'm a bit surprised at how tame this thing is given they've already got the world's tamest family raft ride. ;) Happy to see the effort in theming, though it's not top notch by any means.
 
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Absimilliard

Well-Known Member
Of course they're not off the shelf in terms of being cloned. They're off the shelf in terms of being standard offerings throughout the industry. You seem to know quite a bit about water parks (certainly more than me), so you're already aware of this being a pretty typical assortment of slides- many of which are down the street at Aquatica or were even at Wet n Wild (smaller or larger models, but the same model type and similar layout).



You'd consider this the best selection in the world? Not that I'm trying to dispute it, but that's your honest opinion? OCT seems to be pumping out contracts for selections as impressive as or bigger than what's at VB. And Holiday World is a wonderful little place- I still haven't brought myself to doing their (excellent looking) waterpark since they've got better things to ride that don't put me in the water with rural Indianian's (I kid, I kid... sort of).



I hope it's as good as you say it is. I have my doubts that there will be any speed at all to carry people up the second wall though. Hope I'm wrong. Now if they'd just theme the thing!



Oh certainly there are wonderful waterparks all over the earth and plenty closer than Asia or the Middle East. Those just seem to be massive hotbeds for the industry at the moment and personally I feel that they're at least equally as impressive as anything VB has to offer slide wise, guest service wise, innovation wise, and/or selection wise. That slide in Montreal looks fab, I wish Universal would have gone with more than one hydrmagnetic offering. Kind of stinks to see Holiday World outdoing Universal in that category. It would have massively helped throughput at VB too to have something like Mammoth there. I'm still baffled at how Universal justified having a single slide version with limited capacity compared to the full offering that other parks have made use of. I know it'll have the dark-ride-esque portions, but it's still off considering most other parks with single water-coasters aren't at the top of the industry like Universal was apparently gunning for.

Again, it'll be a fun park. I'll enjoy my visits, as will most people i'm sure. But to claim that this is some revolution in waterparks is silly. The only revolution I see is the inevitable disaster that'll come from trying to manage non-standby queues. I'm interested to see how they get that all up and running. Has any other ride, let alone park, ever been reservation only? I can only think of two examples, one being Everland and the other being for Veruckt before that deathtrap claimed its first (and thankfully only) victim. Glad they're tearing it down and I'm shocked that any insurer/inspector ever gave that company a green light to open that "water slide".

Back to Typhoon though- I'm a bit surprised at how tame this thing is given they've already got the world's tamest family raft ride. ;) Happy to see the effort in theming, though it's not top notch by any means.

You can't compare Aquatica and Volcano Bay slide wise. SeaWorld tendered Aquatica to one supplier for the water slides and the play structure: WhiteWater West from Canada. To put it politely: it is telling that after Aquatica Orlando opened, SeaWorld has used Proslide as their exclusive water slide supplier. Omaka Rocka and Ihu's Breakaway Falls in Orlando? Proslide. The mat racer they installed in California after they bought the neglected park from Cedar Fair? Proslide. New slides at Water Country USA and Adventure Island? Proslide. So, you may find similar slides, but Proslide has come up with new twists.

Speaking of Holiday World, ever since they installed Hyena Falls, they've downsized the water park and have spent their budget improving the dry park and the infrastructure. You mention OCT... they use a combination of both Proslide and WhiteWater at their waterparks, but I would pay attention to the new Atlantis resort in Sanya, China... It is the only waterpark where I feel the slide selection can be comparable to Volcano Bay. http://www.atlantissanya.com/# Atlantis used to only get slides from WhiteWater and years ago, NBGS (New Braunsfel General Store, the manufacturing arm of Schlitterbahn. It was closed to outside sales in 2006 and the patents loaned out to WhiteWater), but they are using Proslide on this one from what I have heard.

Proslide engineers all their ride paths and I am confident the Double Wall slide will have enough speed throughout. It is not the first Hybrid slide they have designed with a Wall so it should be fine.

The water slide in Montreal is not an Hydromagnetic slide, but this type instead: http://www.proslide.com/rides/rocketblast/ . Basically, instead of expensive magnets, water jets are mounted on the sides of the uphill segments and the rafts have special pockets that the water goes into. It is powerful, efficient and much more comfortable than the MasterBlaster commonly seen. One is opening in the US this year, at Six Flags Fiesta Texas and that one will have FIVE of those uphill segments, a ride along conveyor belt ride to the top and four FlyingSAUCER elements.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
uo-volcanobay2c.jpg

Woah... When did they relocate Volcano Bay to farmland?
 

olie64

Well-Known Member
@rushtest4echo There is nothing wrong with us Hoosiers not Indianaians. :) The federal government just change the official nickname month or so ago. Yes Holiday World's water park is pretty awesome.
 

cheezbat

Well-Known Member
I'm curious if a hydromagnetic mammoth is still in the expansion plans for Volcano Bay. The park will definitely be needing more in the near future.
 

rushtest4echo

Well-Known Member
I'm curious if a hydromagnetic mammoth is still in the expansion plans for Volcano Bay. The park will definitely be needing more in the near future.

We should probably have a mod take a few pages of this topic and move it to the Universal area at this point. But I'll continue-

That would be an excellent addition if it's in the cards. I'm not sure where they'd place it though. The residents are already going to murder Universal over the noise that this park will generate, and the only available plots that could be used appear to be the closest to more residents down near the Loews complex.

As far as the park needing more, I ran some numbers last night and VB's got more throughput on their slides than any other park in town (and I threw in the old Wet'n Wild and Adventure Island for good measure). Though the dynamic of having no queues means that the (already small) pathways will be swamped if they ever plan on letting in as many people as a typical water park. But I'm pretty sure Universal's declared that they're comfortable with having a smaller daily attendance than a usual water park so we'll have to see how it goes.
 

Tom Morrow

Well-Known Member
Hmmm...interesting how you toss Universal's demographic into your review of the yet to be launched waterpark.
I was making fun of the idea another poster brought up that Universal made the slides colorful and generic looking to attract their demographic. I believe that even if people don't need theming to have fun, good or great theming will always be better than minimal or none, and I think most people would agree.

And the unthemed water slide you speak of?
Many unthemed slides can be seen here: http://attractionsmagazine.com/volcano-bay-construction-update-with-aerial-photos/

In another thread I acknowledged that Blizzard Beach has some unthemed slides. However, the examples you posted still seem have more theming than the non-volcano slides at Volcano Bay.
 

Disneyhead'71

Well-Known Member
I was making fun of the idea another poster brought up that Universal made the slides colorful and generic looking to attract their demographic. I believe that even if people don't need theming to have fun, good or great theming will always be better than minimal or none, and I think most people would agree.


Many unthemed slides can be seen here: http://attractionsmagazine.com/volcano-bay-construction-update-with-aerial-photos/

In another thread I acknowledged that Blizzard Beach has some unthemed slides. However, the examples you posted still seem have more theming than the non-volcano slides at Volcano Bay.
Have you ever noticed that the slides Disney built into the mountain are beyond boring? Sort of like the family coasters they bury in mountains. Lame offerings suitable for toddler girls and grandmas are easy to bury in a mountain.

Maybe Universal want to build rides that are actually fun, exciting and compelling?

Maybe.
 

rushtest4echo

Well-Known Member
Have you ever noticed that the slides Disney built into the mountain are beyond boring? Sort of like the family coasters they bury in mountains. Lame offerings suitable for toddler girls and grandmas are easy to bury in a mountain.

Maybe Universal want to build rides that are actually fun, exciting and compelling?

Maybe.

You seem to fit the bill of a demographic that Disney's not gunning for. If that's what you think of the Disney mountain range, perhaps you should just avoid Disney's water parks and theme parks altogether.

Summit Plummet is easily one of the scarier slides anywhere. humunga kowabunga isn't too shabby either. But I know, terrible examples of non thrilling slides on the Disney water park mountains. Totally for toddler girls and grandmas. ;)
 

Tom Morrow

Well-Known Member
Yeah, Summet Plummet is one of the scariest things I've ever done. Everest is as intense as Mummy. Splash Mountain is unquestionably the best log flume.

I enjoy both heavily themed experiences and thrills. I'm only critiquing Volcano Bay this much because they are marketing it as a "game changer" and some are convinced it's the Diagon Alley of water parks.
 

raven

Well-Known Member
You seem to fit the bill of a demographic that Disney's not gunning for. If that's what you think of the Disney mountain range, perhaps you should just avoid Disney's water parks and theme parks altogether.
You aren't the same guy that posted a YouTube video of "Top Five Dislikes About Volcano Bay" are you?

This guy lists everything he doesn't like then at the end explains that he doesn't even go to waterparks, hasn't even been in a pool in over 10 years, is uncomfortable seeing people in bathing suits and is also uncomfortable himself because he's overweight. Yep, the video was to complain about something he can't even relate to.
 

NearTheEars

Well-Known Member
You seem to fit the bill of a demographic that Disney's not gunning for. If that's what you think of the Disney mountain range, perhaps you should just avoid Disney's water parks and theme parks altogether.

Summit Plummet is easily one of the scarier slides anywhere. humunga kowabunga isn't too shabby either. But I know, terrible examples of non thrilling slides on the Disney water park mountains. Totally for toddler girls and grandmas. ;)

Summit was definitely scary for me, but I wouldn't call it thrilling IMO.

I think VB will be beautiful and quite popular, but I likely won't visit. I've only been to Typhoon, Blizzard Beach and Adventure Island. Each only one time.

I prefer relaxing by the pool at home over going on slides.
 

rushtest4echo

Well-Known Member
You aren't the same guy that posted a YouTube video of "Top Five Dislikes About Volcano Bay" are you?

This guy lists everything he doesn't like then at the end explains that he doesn't even go to waterparks, hasn't even been in a pool in over 10 years, is uncomfortable seeing people in bathing suits and is also uncomfortable himself because he's overweight. Yep, the video was to complain about something he can't even relate to.

Huh?

Nope, not me. Not sure why you'd ever think I don't relate to water parks. I've been to plenty all over the globe and have ridden almost all of the most popular models.

I also comprehend that Disney hasn't ever gone for "tallest/fastest/most thrilling" at their parks ever (except Summit Plummet). If you're in it for thrills, then you will likely enjoy a visit to Universal's theme parks or water park over Disney's. which was the point that I was making, as well as point out that if he's so unimpressed with Disney's mountain range- then again Universal may be more to his liking. I guess that went right over your head somehow though.
 

UpAllNight

Well-Known Member
Water slides are cheap there's no reason Disney couldn't go for the thrilling market too, and please everyone...other than for reasons of underinvesting and being cheap themselves.

Volcano bay is starting to take shape with the landscaping and is looking better by the day...I think it'll be a great addition to Orlando...I'm as equally interested in seeing how Disney, and Aquatica react.
 

rushtest4echo

Well-Known Member
Water slides are cheap there's no reason Disney couldn't go for the thrilling market too, and please everyone...other than for reasons of underinvesting and being cheap themselves.

Volcano bay is starting to take shape with the landscaping and is looking better by the day...I think it'll be a great addition to Orlando...I'm as equally interested in seeing how Disney, and Aquatica react.

So, when should we be expecting the Intamin gigacoaster at Magic Kingdom? $30 million is super cheap by Disney's standards too. It really hasn't occurred to you guys that perhaps Disney doesn't want a giant proslide complex and money has nothing to do with it? They just spent a fortune (by waterpark standards for a single slide) on Miss Adventure and as people have noticed, it trends way toward the family demo. There's not even a height/age requirement.

I agree that the waterparks could/should be expanded. I disagree that they need more teen/young adult slides. The fiberglass bowl stuff in Orlando has been covered by the other waterparks in town. Maybe they could go with a propelled mammoth model that Universal didn't go with, though one of them at Yas was one of the crazier slides I've been on so I'm not sure if Disney would want something that extreme!
 
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cheezbat

Well-Known Member
Disney HAS done extreme...and record breaking. Humonga Kowabunga was their first foray into the extreme slides, and they became popular but over time needed more...so they added a third slide and enclosed them...something that hadn't really been seen at waterparks before...and of course Summit Plummet and Slush Gusher were their big thrills for their waterparks....Summit being the tallest and fastest slide in the world for a time, and Teamboat Springs was also the longest family raft slide in the world.
Nowadays they settle for 'good enough'. When they announced Crush and Gusher, I hoped we'd get three or four really long slides. Instead we got three slides, each barely over 400 feet long, which for standard water coasters is very tiny. (In comparison, Master Blaster is over 1,000 feet long, Black Anaconda is over 1,300 feet long, Wildebeest and Mammoth both over 1,700 feet long!)

I like the theming and the direction they took with MissAdventure Falls, but it could've and should've been longer.

Personally, while I think something else still needs to be added to Typhoon Lagoon to help with capacity, I really think a ride or two need to go to Blizzard Beach next. That poor park has gone over 20 years without a single new investment.
 

Jon81uk

Well-Known Member
Disney HAS done extreme...and record breaking. Humonga Kowabunga was their first foray into the extreme slides, and they became popular but over time needed more...so they added a third slide and enclosed them...something that hadn't really been seen at waterparks before...and of course Summit Plummet and Slush Gusher were their big thrills for their waterparks....Summit being the tallest and fastest slide in the world for a time, and Teamboat Springs was also the longest family raft slide in the world.
Nowadays they settle for 'good enough'. When they announced Crush and Gusher, I hoped we'd get three or four really long slides. Instead we got three slides, each barely over 400 feet long, which for standard water coasters is very tiny. (In comparison, Master Blaster is over 1,000 feet long, Black Anaconda is over 1,300 feet long, Wildebeest and Mammoth both over 1,700 feet long!)

I like the theming and the direction they took with MissAdventure Falls, but it could've and should've been longer.

Personally, while I think something else still needs to be added to Typhoon Lagoon to help with capacity, I really think a ride or two need to go to Blizzard Beach next. That poor park has gone over 20 years without a single new investment.

You've got it spot on. Disney can do thrilling and Summit Plummet proves it. But as you say Crush'n'Gusher is not as good as it could be, mainly due to the short length, although they also should have added a tube conveyor as well (for some reason climbing those stairs is worse than any other!).
Although Blizzard Beach needs the next addition, it has some of the more thrilling attractions already and would probably benefit from another middle range addition, but Typhoon need to replace Shark Reef with something high thrill.
 

DDLand

Well-Known Member
Have we not thought that Universal doesn't want to hide the plethora of slides they have? Has no one though they could have ordered brown slides like TL instead of Red, Black and Yellow ones?

It's a totally different demographic. Take your 12 year old to Typhoon Lagoon, then the Volcano Bay- and ask which one he enjoyed more. Volcano Bay is doing exactly what it wants to do- show off the slides. Be thrilling. Be in your face. Has anyone ever wondered why you can see Incredible Hulk from everywhere? They choose not to hide it. Disney did what their strength is- a family friendly ride. Universal is doing what their strength is- appealing to the young adults and teen with a massive amount of attractions. Over 60% more attractions, in fact.
Then they should own it.

They're trying to sell this as a "Water Theme Park" when it's becoming strikingly clear that they've chosen other priorities.

Let me be clear, it is 100% fine to choose other priorities.

With that said, this park simply is not shaping up to break ground in immersion. It's going to be a beautiful environment with a great roster, but this is not unprecedented immersion. This park is not on track to live up to its' lofty marketing. This park is simply not going to live up to the Wizarding World of Harry Potter. It's not radically better than everything that has come before it.

It's an iterative park, using existing ideas, with well known slides. That doesn't make it crap. This park should be awesome. It does mean that it will leave room for guests and critics to prefer other Water Parks. It means that immersion falls short of several other water parks.

On balance will it still be the best Water Park in the world? Maybe. It does look like between the roster, certain guest areas, and special features it should be a compelling park. Maybe best in Orlando. Will it be the most immersive? That's looking doubtful. It's a shame they didn't make a "Volcano Bay Hotel" that would reinforce the park if they had to build hotel directly adjacent to the park. The generic hotel towers are peculiar.

In the end, at least for me, I think it doesn't really have much to do with Disney Vs. Universal. The real important thing is Universal vs. Universal. This park is great, but it doesn't meet their standard.

The Miss Adventure Falls looks decent. Maybe a little sparse. I'd have authorized a couple more show scenes. I think they missed an opportunity.

All and all still a good addition!
 

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