Two Spirited Quickees...Imagination closing

[Beholder]

Because America is Media driven I think it was more media pushing the meme 'space and science are not cool' it's boring and people took the lead from there.

Because of current Administrations relations with media he could have sold a revitalized space program which could have served to re-unite the nation on a common goal and would have provided jobs and as yet undreamed of tech. You can't live on Mars with fossil fuels and SUV's that project would have had groundbreaking applications here on ther home front, But because of personality flaws and a lack of patience - (I want it My way and i want it now) current administration squandered the opporntunity. NASA's in bunker mode hoping next administration is a bit more forward thinking.

I agree the media (news/entertainment) helped this problem, but I think it's more of being told that there are "more important things" to worry about. The environment, social issues, military expenditures and whatever agenda whatever political figure needs to perpetuate. The sad thing about this is that space exploration should be a non-political issue. Not left or right, but a chance to unify a people in a common goal.

As an aside, that's why I've felt that if ANY I.P. could exist in some form in EPCOT (I don't think any should), it would be Star Trek. Not trying to show my geek card, but that series (s) really embodies what EPCOT and our space program was about.

 

[ford91exploder]

I agree the media (news/entertainment) helped this problem, but I think it's more of being told that there are "more important things" to worry about. The environment, social issues, military expenditures and whatever agenda whatever political figure needs to perpetuate. The sad thing about this is that space exploration should be a non-political issue. Not left or right, but a chance to unify a people in a common goal.

As an aside, that's why I've felt that if ANY I.P. could exist in some form in EPCOT (I don't think any should), it would be Star Trek. Not trying to show my geek card, but that series (s) really embodies what EPCOT and our space program was about.

Agree with major points but back to the media, Who pushes the 'more important' issues it's back to the media once again.

On the IP Star Trek esp TNG was about thinking your way through problems and how teams consisting of vastly differing individuals could solve large scale problems, It's interesting that the War Colleges use Kirk and Picard as examples of good leadership although with vastly different styles.

 

[RyenDeckard]

That things would've progressed or evolved into a logical progression of the ideas conceptualized in EPCOT. I believe EPCOT is/was, ultimately, a physical expression of "possibilities". In conveyed the idea that mankind was limited only by his (her!) willingness to "boldly go" places not yet realized or imagined. Today what I see is pandering in the form of character overlays, pavilion neglect, and "thrills" taking the place of genuine, thought provoking, enlightenment wrapped in the wonderful package of a themepark.

This, a billion times this. Islands of Adventure is my favorite park currently, but EPCOT was my favorite park by a long shot for a long time. Only after revisiting it in recent years has it fallen so dramatically to MAYBE #5.

The park was built on wonder and discovery, and now it's just another place for Disney to pop down their IP's and hope for the best.

The land boat ride (I forget the name right now, sorry) is still a pretty good embodiment of what the original EPCOT park vision was. I took my girlfriend on it about a year ago and she loved the ride, even though she's a thrill junkie. A park that caters to optimism and wonder still has a place today, but EPCOT is no longer that park.

I only wish she could have seen Horizons. I feel like the closing of that attraction was the death of the original EPCOT vision.

 

[Beholder]

This, a billion times this. Islands of Adventure is my favorite park currently, but EPCOT was my favorite park by a long shot for a long time. Only after revisiting it in recent years has it fallen so dramatically to MAYBE #5.

The park was built on wonder and discovery, and now it's just another place for Disney to pop down their IP's and hope for the best.

The land boat ride (I forget the name right now, sorry) is still a pretty good embodiment of what the original EPCOT park vision was. I took my girlfriend on it about a year ago and she loved the ride, even though she's a thrill junkie. A park that caters to optimism and wonder still has a place today, but EPCOT is no longer that park.

I only wish she could have seen Horizons. I feel like the closing of that attraction was the death of the original EPCOT vision.

I feel exactly the same regarding The Land. It's really the closest to once what was. Yeah, Horizons was an event that marked a dramatic change in the parks direction and the guiding philosophy that's been in place since.

 

[sshindel]

The land boat ride (I forget the name right now, sorry) is still a pretty good embodiment of what the original EPCOT park vision was. I took my girlfriend on it about a year ago and she loved the ride, even though she's a thrill junkie. A park that caters to optimism and wonder still has a place today, but EPCOT is no longer that park.

Agreed. Living with the Land is the closest to the original feel of EPCOT (mainly because it's fairly unchanged). SSE is a close second, if they could just tighten up the script again and fix the descent.

The rest of Future World is a sad shell of it's former self. I'll say again, at this point, if they are not going to put some massive improvements into Future World, I kind of wish they'd just close Future World down and turn World Showcase into a Pleasure Island-esque eating/drinking location.

Old Future World inspired me. Current Future World just makes me sad.

 

[willtravel]

That things would've progressed or evolved into a logical progression of the ideas conceptualized in EPCOT. I believe EPCOT is/was, ultimately, a physical expression of "possibilities". In conveyed the idea that mankind was limited only by his (her!) willingness to "boldly go" places not yet realized or imagined. Today what I see is pandering in the form of character overlays, pavilion neglect, and "thrills" taking the place of genuine, thought provoking, enlightenment wrapped in the wonderful package of a themepark.

Again, these are just some of my opinions. I still like aspects of EPCOT, but I think it's soul has been sold in exchange for a less "demanding" guest and a less than caring corporate culture.

I agree with you but I think and maybe wrong, but what we want is not a money maker for Epcot/Walt Disney Co. IMO.

 

[willtravel]

To an extent yes, however I forgot that it was the Bush Administration that mothballed the shuttle, and the current administration decided not to invest in any further NASA missions for budget reasons. Both sides of the coin are responsible for our lack of a "motivated" space program.

The only reason we had a space program to begin with is because of Russia and the push to go to space in the 60"s. I think if you take a poll today, people would not care. Personally, I think it should be privately funded not federal tax $.

 

[Beholder]

I agree with you but I think and maybe wrong, but what we want is not a money maker for Epcot/Walt Disney Co. IMO.

You may be right, but the fact that the type of "inspiring" and "more intelligent" theme park experience is no longer wanted or desired just makes me despair for certain aspects of society. That might be a little dramatic, but that's overall how things appear to be going.

Where and how this trend started is up for debate and is probably better off on another thread.

 

[Beholder]

The only reason we had a space program to begin with is because of Russia and the push to go to space in the 60"s. I think if you take a poll today, people would not care. Personally, I think it should be privately funded not federal tax $.

Indeed, it appears that may be our only alternative to a government funded space program. And that isn't all bad.

 

[Voxel]

You may be right, but the fact that the type of "inspiring" and "more intelligent" theme park experience is no longer wanted or desired just makes me despair for certain aspects of society. That might be a little dramatic, but that's overall how things appear to be going.

Where and how this trend started is up for debate and is probably better off on another thread.

But at the same time society doesn't need World Fairs and intelligent parks to show us what the future holds and how society will be and is around the world. They can turn on the news and see that. As much as I love Epcot that is the major issue holding it back at the same time. It faces the challenge of reinventing it self but staying the same.

 

[sshindel]

But at the same time society doesn't need World Fairs and intelligent parks to show us what the future holds and how society will be and is around the world. They can turn on the news and see that.

While in some respects I agree that this should be the case, I'd be willing to be that for a majority of the typical visitor to EPCOT, the knowledge of what cutting edge technology currently exists in the world is still going to be unbelievably incomplete. Yes, people know about smartphones, cameras, and personal computers today. But what about advanced manufacturing techniques? REAL next generation energy supplies and methods of finding / creating them (not how it was in 1996)? Cutting edge medical technology? Real applications for 3D printing? What can be done with large amounts of data? Talk in detail about the massive knowledge and computing requirements that were really needed to fire a rocket off a moving planet, and hit a moving planet that is 36 million miles away, and then be able to operate a piece of robot machinery on that planet? There are so many technical advancements happening every day that most people are still unaware of.

I think that for the average visitor, there are many, many things that could and should be new and exciting to them.

 

[Voxel]

While in some respects I agree that this should be the case, I'd be willing to be that for a majority of the typical visitor to EPCOT, the knowledge of what cutting edge technology currently exists in the world is still going to be unbelievably incomplete. Yes, people know about smartphones, cameras, computers today. But what about advanced manufacturing techniques? REAL next generation energy supplies and methods of finding / creating them (not how it was in 1996)? Cutting edge medical technology? Real applications for 3D printing? What can be done with large amounts of data? Talk in detail about the massive knowledge and computing requirements that were really needed to fire a rocket off a moving planet, and hit a moving planet that is 36 million miles away, and then be able to operate a piece of robot machinery on that planet? There are so many technical advancements happening every day that most people are still unaware of.

I think that for the average visitor, there are many, many things that could and should be new and exciting to them.

I agree I would love to see all of this. Where I work I see a lot of this technology and its amazing what we can do, but does society (as a hold) hold the same fascination about the future that we use too, but then again maybe I am wrong. I pray that I am wrong. But in the US there seems to be a drop in the idea of the future maybe people think we are already there. Hell the United States isn't even part of the organizations that formed from the remains of the Worlds Fair.
I remember wanting to spend hours in Innovations looking at the new technology that were years away. I am sure that many of us were introduced to the Segway thanks to Epcot. I would love to see Elon Musk showing off concepts and technology from SpaceX and Tesla at Epcot. DARPA showing off there Robotics work. That's what Epcot needs. It needs to dream again.

 

[Clever Name]

I don't need to be "sold" on the idea of space exploration, I just don't think anyone is selling.

"The ocean covers 71 percent of the Earth's surface and contains 97 percent of the planet's water, yet more than 95 percent of the underwater world remains unexplored. The ocean and lakes play an integral role in many of the Earth's systems including climate and weather." http://www.noaa.gov/ocean.html

We have more detailed maps of the planet Venus than we do of the earth's ocean floor. We landed on the moon in 1969 yet it took until 1977 before hydrothermal ocean vents in the Galapagos Rift were discovered along with chemosynthetic bacteria. Who would have thought that animals could live in water at temperatures of 176 degrees Fahrenheit? http://www.marine-conservation.org.uk/thermalventlife.html

 

[Voxel]

"The ocean covers 71 percent of the Earth's surface and contains 97 percent of the planet's water, yet more than 95 percent of the underwater world remains unexplored. The ocean and lakes play an integral role in many of the Earth's systems including climate and weather." http://www.noaa.gov/ocean.html

We have more detailed maps of the planet Venus than we do of the earth's ocean floor. We landed on the moon in 1969 yet it took until 1977 before hydrothermal ocean vents in the Galapagos Rift were discovered along with chemosynthetic bacteria. Who would have thought that animals could live in water at temperatures of 176 degrees Fahrenheit? http://www.marine-conservation.org.uk/thermalventlife.html

We need to get James Cameron on this!!!!! Sorry I needed a little bit of humor, but James Cameron has done alot of research when it comes to Oceanic Exploration and you got to admire the man. On his most recent Dive he helped discover over 10 species.

 

[sshindel]

I agree I would love to see all of this. Where I work I see a lot of this technology and its amazing what we can do, but does society (as a hold) hold the same fascination about the future that we use too, but then again maybe I am wrong. I pray that I am wrong. But in the US there seems to be a drop in the idea of the future maybe people think we are already there. Hell the United States isn't even part of the organizations that formed from the remains of the Worlds Fair.
I remember wanting to spend hours in Innovations looking at the new technology that were years away. I am sure that many of us were introduced to the Segway thanks to Epcot. I would love to see Elon Musk showing off concepts and technology from SpaceX and Tesla at Epcot. DARPA showing off there Robotics work. That's what Epcot needs. It needs to dream again.

Exactly. And here's my thought, I just wish someone(s) at Disney had the intestinal fortitude to do this.
In some respects, who cares what society as a whole wants? WDW has enough foot traffic, enough other things to do, enough "everything else" that it can stand to have a park that operates on a specific mission statement. One that holds true to it's vision, and that might, just might, foster people's curiosity and make them interested in investigating something they never thought they would care about.
EPCOT was once a place of strong theme, and it made people care, if only for the brief few minutes they were in the attractions. For some, it fostered a lifelong bond. For others, they had fun, got drunk at WS, and left for other parks.
Now, again, I realize I'm being a bit of an unrealistic here, and I know that Disney is not going to try and build a part that caters to only a few. I know they want the turnstiles clicking, the dollars ringing, and the magical attendance numbers to go with it.
I still contend that there is a way to stay true to the mission statement, show people things they thought they didn't care about, and still be fun, engaging, entertaining, enlightening, educational, and drive visitors to want to see them. It just might take more work that building another Meet and Greet or thrill ride. It's harder to try and do all the things listed above than it is to stick with something they "know" already works.
Nobody ever said building the future was going to be easy.

 

[G8rchamps]

Wow this room just got really deep...

get it... deep... I kill me!

 

[sshindel]

We need to get James Cameron on this!!!!! Sorry I needed a little bit of humor, but James Cameron has done alot of research when it comes to Oceanic Exploration and you got to admire the man. On his most recent Dive he helped discover over 10 species.

I know, I always kind of wished they traded him. "Hey James, we just bought Star Wars and think we've got the Sci-Fi thing covered. What we'd like you to do though is take another passion of yours, undersea exploration, and really knock our Seas pavilion out of the park."

 

[Voxel]

Perhaps it's not Disney that needs to be confronted, perhaps the answers lie in Tesla, SpaceX, Darpa, Apple, Google,ETC. Maybe the worm needs to get into their ears that this is the perfect place to Show Case what they are doing. If companies went up to Disney I don't think Disney would say no.

 

[Voxel]

And for further humor

 

[sshindel]

Perhaps it's not Disney that needs to be confronted, perhaps the answers lie in Tesla, SpaceX, Darpa, Apple, Google,ETC. Maybe the worm needs to get into their ears that this is the perfect place to Show Case what they are doing. If companies went up to Disney I don't think Disney would say no.

Agreed. They'd likely need a real reason, real proof, that it'd be worth their time/$ to invest in a sponsorship here. Given the track record Disney has with it's current/past sponsors, Disney would have to prove that they were willing to go the extra mile to ensure that whatever pavilion/attraction is being sponsored would be kept pristine, updated, and in working order.
If I ran a company, I'd make sure if I were to invest in a sponsorship, I'd make Disney prove that they can be better at maintaining their attractions than they currently are.