Two Spirited Quickees...Imagination closing

[Goofyernmost]

I've never understood why EPCOT has never had a NASA pavillion where NASA could showcase some of their neat technologies, Robotics, Remote Sensing, Energy technologies, I've always thought a program a rover attraction would have lines out the door in much the same way 'Sum of all Thrills' does, Especially if they have a REAL rover there on a simulated Moon/Mars landscape. Moon probably better for show purposes as lightspeed delay is 1.3 second in each direction, Mars is 8 minutes 20 seconds.

Show people just how tricky programming a rover is with the lightspeed delay in sending and acknowledging commands, Have a periodic live feed to the ISS via Ham Radio, Have FIRST and Vex Robotics teams demonstrate their robots. Have live feeds from missions etc.

Yes I know KSC has a visitors center DW and I are members of the Commanders Club and we were there for STS-135, But how many people make the trip to KSC?.

Because NASA is a government agency. Even if it were ethical (an argument can be made that it isn't) it would be financed through taxes. The present state of mind is that they don't even want the real thing much less an expensive display in a for profit business.

 

[doctornick]

I have a better idea. Turn Imagination into an awesome dark ride. Make WOL a thrill ride. And put that Beatles attraction Eddie Soto talked about in the UK. The bullet train in Japan. And for Godsakes, go ahead and give Germany its damn river ride already.

A thousand times this. Actually fill up the park with more attractions to correspond to the crowds it draws. Use the WoL pavilion and put more rides in WS.

The sad thing about Imagination is that the original ride was an awesome dark ride. "Fixing" that pavilion is as simple as getting the old blueprints and reconstructing it. If it wasn't massacred 15 years ago, I fully believe that the ride would be as highly regarded and thought of with the same nostalgia as the likes of other Disney classics like IASW, HM, POTC, etc. It really was that good and, unlike the complaints about the "boring edutainment" of the rest of Future World, it had a strong cross generational appeal. (Note: I'm not suggesting that the original FW was boring -- I don't think it was -- but there is some merit to the argument that it did not have as broad appeal as Disney might want; but Imagination did have such appeal.)

 

[sshindel]

A thousand times this. Actually fill up the park with more attractions to correspond to the crowds it draws. Use the WoL pavilion and put more rides in WS.

The sad thing about Imagination is that the original ride was an awesome dark ride. "Fixing" that pavilion is as simple as getting the old blueprints and reconstructing it. If it wasn't massacred 15 years ago, I fully believe that the ride would be as highly regarded and thought of with the same nostalgia as the likes of other Disney classics like IASW, HM, POTC, etc. It really was that good and, unlike the complaints about the "boring edutainment" of the rest of Future World, it had a strong cross generational appeal. (Note: I'm not suggesting that the original FW was boring -- I don't think it was -- but there is some merit to the argument that it did not have as broad appeal as Disney might want; but Imagination did have such appeal.)

Personally, and this from someone who adored the original attraction, I'd rather they build a new attraction that evokes the magic of the original. If they bring back the original, I feel it would be only a small step, when this pavilion deserves so much more. It was the heart of the original EPCOT. It should be the cornerstone. It deserves to be thoughtfully reinvented to be the amazing attraction that shows the new path for Epcot.
That being said, if they did bring back the original, it would still be a huge improvement.

 

[TinkerBelle8878]

The thing is they screwed up when they shut down WoL except to make it a convention center. This is probably (and unfortunately) what they have in mind for Imagination. Maybe they'll turn it into Food and Wine central. This is just what the big bosses seem to be doing there. There aren't fast pass outages 30 minutes after opening? Shut it down and use it for private events.

Really when they got rid of the original and replaced it with the dumbed down, garbage version..sticking Figment in it to band-aid the problem was like sticking lipstick on a pig. It does nothing but waste time, make a mess and tick off the pig.

I would love to see it restored to its former glory. I'd even love to see (if they had to cross promote) the Muppets added to it. They're puppets. Figment is a puppet some of the time. I guess of all people I could see Jim Henson's imagination being the perfect fit for the pavillion going forward. Honor the old and respin it to make it new again. Forget Nigel Whatshisname. If they need scientists may I suggest Dr. Bunsen Honeydew and his assistant Beaker? Make a new Muppet 3d movie to replace EO.

 

[doctornick]

I'm afraid it does. Those of us that remember the original with detail are getting long in the tooth now. People like myself first went to it in 83, that was 30 years ago. I was 35 at the time. Do the math that makes me 65. Yea - yea, I know 65 is the new 40. Bull. 65 is 65 and the yearly trips are numbered. I would love for Disney to cater to my tastes, but that would be a formula for failure. There are not enough of us left that still feel the way we did in 1982. They have to appeal to the current young to middle age adults in order to draw them in. It's reality. What we thought was great in the 80's does not influence anymore.

Here's the thing. As much as I enjoyed the original Future World (I was a pre-teen when it opened, but my family always spent a lot of time there so I feel like I grew up with the place), it was problematic. There was a certainly "sameness" between all the attractions and there is an argument that the edutainment was kind of boring with repeated viewing. I think modifying some of the attractions to a different style makes a lot of sense...

I've said in the past that I think Test Track was actually a great addition. I enjoyed WoM, but Test Track still fits well into the vibe of FW in terms of educating as well as entertaining and the styling of 2.0 even has that future vibe. I actually think you can make a case for the Nemo addition as well to make the Seas more interesting compared to a rather theme ride before -- personally, I'd rather it be "Nemo and friends introduce you to the sea" (i.e. being hosts to the rider) rather than retelling the movie story, as that would have fit the character of FW better. They could have also kept the movie in the beginning of the pavilion and then segue into the ride.

But... Imagination sucks and it's hard to find anyone who would prefer the current ride and pavilion setup to the original. UoE and SSE are lateral moves at best and they still need to be updated again -- both are okay, but not idea and, IMHO, inferior to the earlier versions. And, while I can really appreciate what they tried to do with M:S, the result leaves a lot to be desired. If they wanted to replace Horizons with a Space pavilion (would have been a sensible choice), it could have been done in a much more successful fashion.

And, of course, shutting down WoL with no replacement is inexcusable.

Doing some of the changes -- say, adding TT and some Nemo elements (keeping Seabase Alpha) but keeping the original Imagination and Horizons with some small updating to the later -- would have made FW better than the original, at least would have increased the mass appeal. The problem IMHO is that they went too far to adding thrills and commercial appeal.

 

[willtravel]

I think what the problem is, is that Walt Disney Co. built there business model on sponsers then and now. Times have changed and businesses do not need Disney. We have now far too many outlets for companies to showcase there produts or even there name. IMO

 

[englanddg]

The issue with EPCOT's futureworld, as it originally existed, is that it's NOT about individual attractions telling their story, it's about each attraction telling part of a larger story. The larger story being the future. It wasn't edutainment just for edutainment's sake (unlike the current Innoventions displays, which are all over the place).

This is why many of the changes that were made broke that overarching story.

Frankly, I think where the first started to go astray was when they built WoL...but I know a lot of people love that pavilion (I don't...but, I also don't think they should have closed it without a replacement)

 

[ford91exploder]

Because NASA is a government agency. Even if it were ethical (an argument can be made that it isn't) it would be financed through taxes. The present state of mind is that they don't even want the real thing much less an expensive display in a for profit business.

Bzzzt, Wrong the KSC visitors center is run by Delaware North without a SINGLE DIME of taxpayer money, There is NO reason why the Visitor Center could not have an Orlando satellite highlighting earth and space exploration.

Think on this without the Apollo program there would be no miniature computer systems as the size and packaging breakthroughs were driven by the space program, One of the great triumphs of the Apollo program was creating a full function computer system that could fit in a spacecraft instead of filling a room the size of a garage and required vast amounts of power and cooling as well, Cellular Phones would not exist without the microwave digital data links needed for telemetry, PV panels would not exist without the need to power satellites and spacecraft.

NASA gets about .005 cents per federal dollar spent and arguably it has contributed far more to the economy by developing technology that people use every day than any other branch of the US Government.

 

[englanddg]

Bzzzt, Wrong the KSC visitors center is run by Delaware North without a SINGLE DIME of taxpayer money, There is NO reason why the Visitor Center could not have an Orlando satellite highlighting earth and space exploration.

Think on this without the Apollo program there would be no miniature computer systems as the size and packaging breakthroughs were driven by the space program, One of the great triumphs of the Apollo program was creating a full function computer system that could fit in a spacecraft instead of filling a room the size of a garage and required vast amounts of power and cooling as well, Cellular Phones would not exist without the microwave digital data links needed for telemetry, PV panels would not exist without the need to power satellites and spacecraft.

NASA gets about .005 cents per federal dollar spent and arguably it has contributed far more to the economy by developing technology that people use every day than any other branch of the US Government.

And with that, I'll post this. Not the first time I've posted it, but it's apt to the conversation...plus it's just a great video (I love Neil deGrasse Tyson...even though he kicked Pluto out of the major planet club!)

 

[Admiral01]

I'm afraid it does. Those of us that remember the original with detail are getting long in the tooth now. People like myself first went to it in 83, that was 30 years ago. I was 35 at the time. Do the math that makes me 65. Yea - yea, I know 65 is the new 40. Bull. 65 is 65 and the yearly trips are numbered. I would love for Disney to cater to my tastes, but that would be a formula for failure. There are not enough of us left that still feel the way we did in 1982. They have to appeal to the current young to middle age adults in order to draw them in. It's reality. What we thought was great in the 80's does not influence anymore.

My argument would be that I am now 32. My first visit to EPCOT Center was in 1983, when I was 2 years old. I grew up with it in the 80s and 90s. I do remember the way original EPCOT felt, and I want it back. I might not remember 1983 vividly, but I do remember the late 80s and early 90s vividly. There are more of us than one would recognize, I think. I am amazed by the number of peers who I meet and who I already know, who aren't avid Disney fans, but who remember the grandeur of EPCOT Center. For all the sh*t my generation gets for being lazy or for needing instant gratification, what we really want is substance that engages us. Original EPCOT would be doing that right now for a whole new generation of adults if Disney could just get it together enough to recognize that not all of us want princesses and pixie dust. Magic isn't what draws us to WDW, it is the incredible substance of the theme parks. Add more of that back in, dial the pixie dust back, and there could be a demographic shift.

 

[aladdin2007]

A thousand times this. Actually fill up the park with more attractions to correspond to the crowds it draws. Use the WoL pavilion and put more rides in WS.

The sad thing about Imagination is that the original ride was an awesome dark ride. "Fixing" that pavilion is as simple as getting the old blueprints and reconstructing it. If it wasn't massacred 15 years ago, I fully believe that the ride would be as highly regarded and thought of with the same nostalgia as the likes of other Disney classics like IASW, HM, POTC, etc. It really was that good and, unlike the complaints about the "boring edutainment" of the rest of Future World, it had a strong cross generational appeal. (Note: I'm not suggesting that the original FW was boring -- I don't think it was -- but there is some merit to the argument that it did not have as broad appeal as Disney might want; but Imagination did have such appeal.)

While I totally agree and would love more attractions etc ,,, Disney doesnt, they want us buying booze, food, more booze, starbucks, and merch. They dont want us sitting or resting (more and more benches continue to be taken away) and they dont want us in attractions when you get right down to it, so they arent going to add them or fix what they have. They dont care. They dont care about crowd control as long as they are making profits. The epcot drunkfest threads are an example on some of that. Disney just wants us spending $$$$, they cant even provide adequate security on drunken weekends. Its sad that they have lost so much focus and could care less about attractions, and the guest.

 

[Bairstow]

All the major attractions: SSE, WOM, Horizons were all 10 minute long omnimover attractions that constantly kept people moving and lines short. They were literal people-eaters

 

[Goofyernmost]

My argument would be that I am now 32. My first visit to EPCOT Center was in 1983, when I was 2 years old. I grew up with it in the 80s and 90s. I do remember the way original EPCOT felt, and I want it back. I might not remember 1983 vividly, but I do remember the late 80s and early 90s vividly. There are more of us than one would recognize, I think. I am amazed by the number of peers who I meet and who I already know, who aren't avid Disney fans, but who remember the grandeur of EPCOT Center. For all the sh*t my generation gets for being lazy or for needing instant gratification, what we really want is substance that engages us. Original EPCOT would be doing that right now for a whole new generation of adults if Disney could just get it together enough to recognize that not all of us want princesses and pixie dust. Magic isn't what draws us to WDW, it is the incredible substance of the theme parks. Add more of that back in, dial the pixie dust back, and there could be a demographic shift.

Not enough of you to make a difference. Those of us, no matter how young we are, do not constitute large enough numbers to influence the overriding tastes of the majority at this point. You are an in-between, young enough to be in the group but not able to identify with it. It happens.

 

[JenniferS]

Where's the collection box?

At the ticket kiosk.

 

[ford91exploder]

And with that, I'll post this. Not the first time I've posted it, but it's apt to the conversation...plus it's just a great video (I love Neil deGrasse Tyson...even though he kicked Pluto out of the major planet club!)

Absolutely AWESOME, I've never seen that before but its true, My becoming an engineer was driven by the dreams fostered by the space program, Unless you have been there at Turtle Creek (VIP area where NASA Brass and Astronaut families viewed launches - Its 3.5 Miles from LC39) you cannot imagine the majesty of a launch, You see the vehicle then some sparks then the craft is wreathed in smoke, finally the vehicle rises on a pillar of fire and is gone before the sound reaches you.

I've been in the white room on the pad and I've been in the VAB, Yes that is a place where dreams are made and made real, And yes as a society we have forgotten how to dream and do things. Too busy chasing profit and the Kardashians.

At the Astronaut HOF, There is a quote from the chief of the Taikonauts (Chinese Astronaut Corps) we do not need each other to explore space but imagine what we could achieve if we explored space together.

 

[englanddg]

Absolutely AWESOME, I've never seen that before but its true, My becoming an engineer was driven by the dreams fostered by the space program, Unless you have been there at Turtle Creek (VIP area where NASA Brass and Astronaut families viewed launches - Its 3.5 Miles from LC39) you cannot imagine the majesty of a launch, You see the vehicle then some sparks then the craft is wreathed in smoke, finally the vehicle rises on a pillar of fire and is gone before the sound reaches you.

I've been in the white room on the pad and I've been in the VAB, Yes that is a place where dreams are made and made real, And yes as a society we have forgotten how to dream and do things. Too busy chasing profit and the Kardashians.

At the Astronaut HOF, There is a quote from the chief of the Taikonauts (Chinese Astronaut Corps) we do not need each other to explore space but imagine what we could achieve if we explored space together.

Well, since you haven't seen that one...this is part 2 of the series...



Enjoy!

 

[Admiral01]

I've never understood why EPCOT has never had a NASA pavillion where NASA could showcase some of their neat technologies, Robotics, Remote Sensing, Energy technologies, I've always thought a program a rover attraction would have lines out the door in much the same way 'Sum of all Thrills' does, Especially if they have a REAL rover there on a simulated Moon/Mars landscape. Moon probably better for show purposes as lightspeed delay is 1.3 second in each direction, Mars is 8 minutes 20 seconds.

Show people just how tricky programming a rover is with the lightspeed delay in sending and acknowledging commands, Have a periodic live feed to the ISS via Ham Radio, Have FIRST and Vex Robotics teams demonstrate their robots. Have live feeds from missions etc.

Yes I know KSC has a visitors center DW and I are members of the Commanders Club and we were there for STS-135, But how many people make the trip to KSC?.

Just got back from KSC. The new Atlantis exhibit is breathtaking. Simply the best of the shuttle displays around the country. The Shuttle Training Experience is still a great attraction. The whole visitor complex has undergone an extensive update since I last visited in January 2011, and is worth a visit - multiple if you can.

I was down at KSC for the launch of Discovery on STS-120, exactly 6 years ago tomorrow (October 23, 2007). Though we don't launch the shuttle any more, a large rocket launch is still definitely worth a trip to the east coast of Florida. Someday soon, hopefully, the US will once again have manned missions launching from KSC.

The biggest issue with NASA itself sponsoring a pavilion at EPCOT is that government agencies are not allowed to spend money in this way. It would be considered marketing, which is illegal for taxpayer funds. The military branches get around this by classifying their marketing as recruiting. Many of the EPCOT pavilions have natural connections to US departments and agencies - The Land to the Dept of Agriculture, UoE to the Dept of Energy, M:S to NASA, Test Track to Dept of Transportation... They can't spend money like this. I've researched this at work for NASA, and found that Disney and NASA can exchange things in kind. For example, in exchange for NASA allowing a Buzz Lightyear onboard STS-124, Disney agreed to use NASA and it's logos at M:S, show launches, etc. That is the extent of what Disney and NASA have done together recently.

As someone stated earlier, the KSC Visitor Complex is operated by the Delaware North Corporation, and does not use a cent of taxpayer money. It is all privately funded - hence the $50 entrance fee. The Smithsonian Institute, by comparison, is funded by a combination of taxpayer money, private donations, and the Smithsonian Trust...which is why SI museums are free.

 

[Flswimmer]

orlando_parks on twitter(which has been reliable about rumors in the past) just posted this on twitter.

It looks like the rumors about the Imagination! Pavilion closing may be true after all...The contractors working on projects on the second floor of the pavilion have been asked to leave by the end of the year.The reason behind this request? The pavilion needs to be refurbished.

 

[Captain Neo]

orlando_parks on twitter(which has been reliable about rumors in the past) just posted this on twitter.

It looks like the rumors about the Imagination! Pavilion closing may be true after all...The contractors working on projects on the second floor of the pavilion have been asked to leave by the end of the year.The reason behind this request? The pavilion needs to be refurbished.

....what projects were they working on on the second floor??

 

[NoChesterHester]

orlando_parks on twitter(which has been reliable about rumors in the past) just posted this on twitter.

It looks like the rumors about the Imagination! Pavilion closing may be true after all...The contractors working on projects on the second floor of the pavilion have been asked to leave by the end of the year.The reason behind this request? The pavilion needs to be refurbished.

"Needs to be refurbished" is a forgone conclusion. "Will be refurbished" remains to be seen.