News Tron coaster coming to the Magic Kingdom

[Vinnie Mac]

People complain about Mermaid even though it’s better than Pan.

People complain about Remy even though it’s the best ride in World Showcase.

People complain about Falcon even though it’s the best second-tier ride they’ve built in a single IP land (the only type of land they build now).

Na’vi River Adventure wasn’t hyped and is a C-ticket…yet…”we deserved more!”

Alien Swirling Saucers? Not hyped. Complaints.

Are we observing the same fans? People complain about the woodwork in a creperie they have not dined in.

You already know the type of crap Guardians is gonna get when it too opens.

 

[ToTBellHop]

After web-slingers I have to say, no. The internet fan base wouldn't applaud it. Y'all expect an E-ticket attraction whilst said attraction was never advertised/meant to be an E-ticket attraction and then say that the attraction is a disappointment or a failure when, surprise surprise! It's not an E-ticket. Happened before and will inevitably happen in the future.

Disney listens when the people speak. It may not seem like it but there are several past and current events to prove that they do.

I enjoyed Spidey for what it was. It has an E-ticket next door (GotG) and will eventually have a 2nd E-ticket in the land.

 

[Vinnie Mac]

And people complain. I watch grown-alien swirling saucers adults ride a kiddie coaster and complain that it’s not longer and faster.

In a park with WDW’s most intense roller coaster.

I see this a lot, even coming from people outside of the Disney fanbase.

It's literally Disney World... I'm not sure what these people are expecting. Millennium Force? Maybe a goofy themed giga coaster?

 

[ToTBellHop]

You already know the type of crap Guardians is gonna get when it too opens.

I think Guardians will be a lot of fun. But it is at Epcot. We know what people will say here. Park guests will eat it up, though. Like Harmonious.

 

[UNCgolf]

People complain about Mermaid even though it’s better than Pan.

People complain about Remy even though it’s the best ride in World Showcase.

People complain about Falcon even though it’s the best second-tier ride they’ve built in a single IP land (the only type of land they build now).

Na’vi River Adventure wasn’t hyped and is a C-ticket…yet…”we deserved more!”

Alien Swirling Saucers? Not hyped. Complaints.

Are we observing the same fans? People complain about the woodwork in a creperie they have not dined in.

Pan is better than Mermaid, although that's mainly because of the "flying" aspect. Regardless, that's a misleading way to frame it. They built Mermaid to be an E ticket and it's certainly not that. The current incarnation of Imagination is better than the one that came just before it, but that doesn't mean it's good.

Remy being the best ride in World Showcase is probably true, but that's not really saying much when you look at the competition. Regardless, I don't remember anyone saying it's a bad ride, although someone probably has somewhere.

Falcon is nowhere near as good as NRJ.

Agreed about the NRJ complaints; I think it's a better attraction than most other rides they've built this decade and it certainly wasn't intended as a major attraction.

I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone complain about Swirling Saucers specifically; all I've ever seen is complaints about how lackluster TSL is. I think Alien Swirling Saucers would be fine if it wasn't expected to carry so much weight in TSL and DHS overall.

As for the creperie, well... of course people were going to complain about that; people don't go to the World Showcase expecting to eat in an Applebee's!

 

[Vinnie Mac]

I enjoyed Spidey for what it was. It has an E-ticket next door (GotG) and will eventually have a 2nd E-ticket in the land.

Yup. I often see people somehow complaining about Avengers campus not having an E-ticket attraction. Are they even looking for it? It's probably one of if not the tallest structure in Disneyland... It's literally impossible to miss.

Also yeah people forget that there is another attraction supposed to be coming to AC.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Just because something isn’t an E-Ticket doesn’t mean it is above criticism. This becomes more so when the size, scope and cost are all more than enough to deliver an E-Ticket experience.

 

[Vinnie Mac]

Just because something isn’t an E-Ticket doesn’t mean it is above criticism.

I don't think anybody is saying that. No attraction is above criticism. But expecting an E-ticket quality attraction while said attraction was never advertised as an E-ticket attraction nor meant to be an E-ticket is quite literally asking for disappointment.

It's like somebody getting off of Test Track and then expecting the same level of thrill from The Land.

You're going to be dissapointed regardless of how good the ride is for what it is because you expected something completely different from what its supposed to be.

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

Do you really think that if Disney added several non Super-E-Tickets and DIDN'T HYPE them as Super-E-Tickets the internet fanbase in general and this board in particular wouldn't applaud it? Because it really seems like you're blatantly caricaturing a huge group of your fellow posters by ignoring what they've said for years.

Oh, and this is putting aside the absurd suggestion that poor little Disney wants to do the right things but the big mean internet fanbase won't let them.

Wait, so the idea is to spend money and invest in rides that are NOT E-Ticket high end rides, and then even better, don't market that you are building new features for the park? That's how you run a business? I can see the pitch meeting now:

Internet Park Expert: Guys, for fiscal 2023 we want to invest hundreds of millions into the parks.
Disney Executive: A great idea, someplace in one of the Asian parks to increase market share and attendance in those regions. We are definitely not fully developed there and the population and economies out there are growing?

Internet Park Expert: No, Walt Disney World, Orlando.
Disney Executive: You mean the location where we have the most parks, the most rides, and that is basically a saturated market?
Internet Park Expert:...... Yes.

Disney Executive: Ok, so what are you thinking, another coaster type ride. Something like Tron or GotG in order to help shore up the higher thrill ride area and keep some of the high school/college type attendees? Something we can promote as a big summer feature, a new anchor ride for one of the parks?

Internet Park Expert: No

Disney Executive: Oh, are we talking about major new type of feature ride, something never seen before like Flight of Pandora? In fact there are 4 new Pandora movies coming out, the next one featuring water environments, maybe some kind of semi-thrill dark ride like Gringotts? Something that has people saying "Wheeeeee" but that kids, parents and grandparents can all ride? We could definitely market that well. The announcement could coincide with the end of the 50th celebration and the new Pandora movies coming out. Going to be tie ins for new merchandise too. Yeah I love that.

Internet Park Expert: Oh no, nothing like that. We were thinking more on the lines of a movie theater, or maybe something like a Winnie the Pooh type ride. But it's important we don't tell anyone about it.

Disney Executive: Don't tell anyone about it.......?

Internet Park Expert: Oh absolutely. We don't want to spend the money on a major attraction that is super impressive and that would draw people to the park. In fact, under our plan, we would build a couple of these smaller type rides without ANYONE finding out at all. We want the rides to be ok, like they work and everything. No one is going to fall off them and break a hip, but not exciting or new enough that anyone who wasn't planning on going to the park this year is going to plan on going just to ride the new rides. AND most importantly we don't want these new rides to appeal to anyone who doesn't already like Disney, and would now plan on coming to the park who hadn't already planned on coming.

Disney Executive:

Internet Park Expert: Oh and in addition to not being anything new, or super exciting the rides main feature is that its going to be super efficient at getting people onto it, and then off again. We are talking about being able to push through thousands of people an hour into and out of this place. It can handle tons of people, but only people who were already going to the park. Remember we can't tell anyone about these new rides. Remember we are not building exciting rides for people to come to the parks to ride, we are building efficient ride for people who have already bought tickets to the park can ride them.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I don't think anybody is saying that. No attraction is above criticism. But expecting an E-ticket quality attraction while said attraction was never advertised as an E-ticket attraction nor meant to be an E-ticket is quite literally asking for disappointment.

It's like somebody getting off of Test Track and then expecting the same level of thrill from The Land.

You're going to be dissapointed regardless of how good the ride is for what it is because you expected something completely different from what its supposed to be.

That’s exactly what is being conflated, that because people express disappointment means they were expecting an E-Ticket.

Wait, so the idea is to spend money and invest in rides that are NOT E-Ticket high end rides, and then even better, don't market that you are building new features for the park? That's how you run a business?

Adding capacity that absorbs demand without inducing significant new demand is not a new or radical concept. Disney just can’t afford to actually pull it off.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Adding capacity that absorbs demand without inducing significant new demand is not a new or radical concept. Disney just can’t afford to actually pull it off.

Which is a shame, because they used to be able too. And not that long ago.

 

[matt9112]

And it should have had multiple tracks for extra capacity. Some in a blue theme and some in an orange theme.

Modifying the layout and the launch sequences to accommodate larger trains and or have more block sections is realistic. Your grasping at straws in your sarcasm of those who would like to see an emphasis on capacity.

 

[matt9112]

And people complain. I watch grown-alien swirling saucers adults ride a kiddie coaster and complain that it’s not longer and faster.

In a park with WDW’s most intense roller coaster.

People complain because disney hyped the hell out of it....it induced demand not alleviated it and all because of disneys marketing. It should have opened to no fanfair with no advertising outside of the parks of course. But nah super bowl commercials are the way to advertise a flat ride and a eh coaster.

 

[doctornick]

And people complain. I watch grown-alien swirling saucers adults ride a kiddie coaster and complain that it’s not longer and faster.

In a park with WDW’s most intense roller coaster.

I don't disagree with your point, but I do think Disney shares some blame on this because they did hype TSL as a major addition. IIRC, there was a big Super Bowl ad talking about it. I actually find it very odd because Disney doesn't really need to hype up new additions. Just the generic "experience the magic" type stuff works fine. It's not like they are hurting for business - do they even get a good ROI for the money they spent advertising TSL?

Honestly, they should have just built TSL and added it to the maps and been done. No need for any marketing blitz beyond maybe a "TSL now open" billboard in the area. Or having a general WDW commercial but showing 2 seconds on people riding Slinky among other rides. They do create unreasonable expectations by hyping up everything as the greatest thing ever.

 

[matt9112]

Wait, so the idea is to spend money and invest in rides that are NOT E-Ticket high end rides, and then even better, don't market that you are building new features for the park? That's how you run a business? I can see the pitch meeting now:

Internet Park Expert: Guys, for fiscal 2023 we want to invest hundreds of millions into the parks.
Disney Executive: A great idea, someplace in one of the Asian parks to increase market share and attendance in those regions. We are definitely not fully developed there and the population and economies out there are growing?

Internet Park Expert: No, Walt Disney World, Orlando.
Disney Executive: You mean the location where we have the most parks, the most rides, and that is basically a saturated market?
Internet Park Expert:...... Yes.

Disney Executive: Ok, so what are you thinking, another coaster type ride. Something like Tron or GotG in order to help shore up the higher thrill ride area and keep some of the high school/college type attendees? Something we can promote as a big summer feature, a new anchor ride for one of the parks?

Internet Park Expert: No

Disney Executive: Oh, are we talking about major new type of feature ride, something never seen before like Flight of Pandora? In fact there are 4 new Pandora movies coming out, the next one featuring water environments, maybe some kind of semi-thrill dark ride like Gringotts? Something that has people saying "Wheeeeee" but that kids, parents and grandparents can all ride? We could definitely market that well. The announcement could coincide with the end of the 50th celebration and the new Pandora movies coming out. Going to be tie ins for new merchandise too. Yeah I love that.

Internet Park Expert: Oh no, nothing like that. We were thinking more on the lines of a movie theater, or maybe something like a Winnie the Pooh type ride. But it's important we don't tell anyone about it.

Disney Executive: Don't tell anyone about it.......?

Internet Park Expert: Oh absolutely. We don't want to spend the money on a major attraction that is super impressive and that would draw people to the park. In fact, under our plan, we would build a couple of these smaller type rides without ANYONE finding out at all. We want the rides to be ok, like they work and everything. No one is going to fall off them and break a hip, but not exciting or new enough that anyone who wasn't planning on going to the park this year is going to plan on going just to ride the new rides. AND most importantly we don't want these new rides to appeal to anyone who doesn't already like Disney, and would now plan on coming to the park who hadn't already planned on coming.

Disney Executive:

Internet Park Expert: Oh and in addition to not being anything new, or super exciting the rides main feature is that its going to be super efficient at getting people onto it, and then off again. We are talking about being able to push through thousands of people an hour into and out of this place. It can handle tons of people, but only people who were already going to the park. Remember we can't tell anyone about these new rides. Remember we are not building exciting rides for people to come to the parks to ride, we are building efficient ride for people who have already bought tickets to the park can ride them.

Wierd none of that conversation includes the part where the disney executive spent the bare minimum of cap x compared to attendance increases for the last 10 years....what was the last thing they added that mattered? Sunset boulevard? Maybe animal kingdom?

All of your executive ideas also replace things....they dont actually increase the foot print of the busiest theme parks in the world. But im just an internet expert.

 

[Casper Gutman]

People complain about Mermaid even though it’s better than Pan.

People complain about Remy even though it’s the best ride in World Showcase.

People complain about Falcon even though it’s the best second-tier ride they’ve built in a single IP land (the only type of land they build now).

Na’vi River Adventure wasn’t hyped and is a C-ticket…yet…”we deserved more!”

Alien Swirling Saucers? Not hyped. Complaints.

Are we observing the same fans? People complain about the woodwork in a creperie they have not dined in.

So you don't read any of the complaints, right? Because that's what you're saying here.

People complain about Mermaid because it was one of two parts (and initially the only part) of a much-anticipated expansion that replaced several preexisting rides and failed to increase capacity much (I like Mermaid).

People complain about Remy because it is one of two rides added in the much needed (for decades) but massively underwhelming EPCOT makeover. (I like Remy).

People complain about Falcon because it is an awful ride and one of two in a massively hyped but viciously cut expansion to a park that needed attractions for decades and didn't increase capacity much (I don't like Falcon).

People complain about Na'vi because it is a comically short ride in a massively hyped land.

I... don't see people complain about Saucers. But it is also a component of an underwhelming but massively hyped land.

See a pattern? Everything you mentioned is part of a massively hyped, massively expensive yet massively cut expansion to a park that has been very obviously broken for decades that doesn't fix underlying capacity issues in the parks to which it was added. On there own, Mermaid and Remy are fine. Had they simply opened as nice additions, they would have been perfect. But they were part of woefully inadequate overhauls intended to fix woefully broken parks. As for Falcon and Na'vi - just because something is not an E-Ticket doesn't mean it has to be bad or busted.

 

[Casper Gutman]

So you are saying they shouldn't hype additions they are adding? Let me guess - marketing major?

Also let's not confuse - Disney promotion from general word of mouth, if Disney announces something new coming (as any company on the planet would do) and the fanbase speculates on it and blows it out of proportion - that's not Disney.

Tell me about how Toy Story Land was marketed. Do you feel it was warranted by the content of the land?

 

[doctornick]

Wait, so the idea is to spend money and invest in rides that are NOT E-Ticket high end rides, and then even better, don't market that you are building new features for the park? That's how you run a business? I can see the pitch meeting now:

Internet Park Expert: Guys, for fiscal 2023 we want to invest hundreds of millions into the parks.
Disney Executive: A great idea, someplace in one of the Asian parks to increase market share and attendance in those regions. We are definitely not fully developed there and the population and economies out there are growing?

Internet Park Expert: No, Walt Disney World, Orlando.
Disney Executive: You mean the location where we have the most parks, the most rides, and that is basically a saturated market?
Internet Park Expert:...... Yes.

Disney Executive: Ok, so what are you thinking, another coaster type ride. Something like Tron or GotG in order to help shore up the higher thrill ride area and keep some of the high school/college type attendees? Something we can promote as a big summer feature, a new anchor ride for one of the parks?

Internet Park Expert: No

Disney Executive: Oh, are we talking about major new type of feature ride, something never seen before like Flight of Pandora? In fact there are 4 new Pandora movies coming out, the next one featuring water environments, maybe some kind of semi-thrill dark ride like Gringotts? Something that has people saying "Wheeeeee" but that kids, parents and grandparents can all ride? We could definitely market that well. The announcement could coincide with the end of the 50th celebration and the new Pandora movies coming out. Going to be tie ins for new merchandise too. Yeah I love that.

Internet Park Expert: Oh no, nothing like that. We were thinking more on the lines of a movie theater, or maybe something like a Winnie the Pooh type ride. But it's important we don't tell anyone about it.

Disney Executive: Don't tell anyone about it.......?

Internet Park Expert: Oh absolutely. We don't want to spend the money on a major attraction that is super impressive and that would draw people to the park. In fact, under our plan, we would build a couple of these smaller type rides without ANYONE finding out at all. We want the rides to be ok, like they work and everything. No one is going to fall off them and break a hip, but not exciting or new enough that anyone who wasn't planning on going to the park this year is going to plan on going just to ride the new rides. AND most importantly we don't want these new rides to appeal to anyone who doesn't already like Disney, and would now plan on coming to the park who hadn't already planned on coming.

Disney Executive:

Internet Park Expert: Oh and in addition to not being anything new, or super exciting the rides main feature is that its going to be super efficient at getting people onto it, and then off again. We are talking about being able to push through thousands of people an hour into and out of this place. It can handle tons of people, but only people who were already going to the park. Remember we can't tell anyone about these new rides. Remember we are not building exciting rides for people to come to the parks to ride, we are building efficient ride for people who have already bought tickets to the park can ride them.

My counter point would be sure build Tron or Cosmic Rewind or Galaxy's Edge and advertise it. But the problem is that when you open Tron also open up the Main Street Theater and open up a smaller dark ride, etc (there's that Stitch building sitting empty for example...).

When you build Galaxy's Edge, there should be 3 or 4 total attractions not just 2. Why not a show? Why not a no height restriction ride? Why not some sort of fancy M&G like Belle but for R2 and C3P0? Why not a third attraction at Pandora (the land is just screaming for an "animal trail" that you walk and see some AAs of the larger fauna of the planet).

I have no problem with the "E-tickets" that Disney is building, but they should be building smaller attractions at the same time. So they can advertise the big stuff but have the little stuff there to engage guests and enhance their experience. And keep them coming back.

 

[Casper Gutman]

After web-slingers I have to say, no. The internet fan base wouldn't applaud it. Y'all expect an E-ticket attraction whilst said attraction was never advertised/meant to be an E-ticket attraction and then say that the attraction is a disappointment or a failure when, surprise surprise! It's not an E-ticket. Happened before and will inevitably happen in the future.

Disney listens when the people speak. It may not seem like it but there are several past and current events to prove that they do.

Web Slingers is one of the worst rides Disney has ever built (it is, without hyperbole, Six Flags quality) in an awful land devoid of content based on the most successful film series in Hollywood history, a franchise that is largely responsible for Disney's current success. It's a perfect example of what Disney is doing wrong.

Hey, let's think about a neat ride that WASN'T the hyped lynchpin of a new expansion, that wasn't advertised to the moon and back - MMRR. It's perfect, and receives very little criticism. Isn't that odd?

 

[Casper Gutman]

Wait, so the idea is to spend money and invest in rides that are NOT E-Ticket high end rides, and then even better, don't market that you are building new features for the park? That's how you run a business? I can see the pitch meeting now:

Internet Park Expert: Guys, for fiscal 2023 we want to invest hundreds of millions into the parks.
Disney Executive: A great idea, someplace in one of the Asian parks to increase market share and attendance in those regions. We are definitely not fully developed there and the population and economies out there are growing?

Internet Park Expert: No, Walt Disney World, Orlando.
Disney Executive: You mean the location where we have the most parks, the most rides, and that is basically a saturated market?
Internet Park Expert:...... Yes.

Disney Executive: Ok, so what are you thinking, another coaster type ride. Something like Tron or GotG in order to help shore up the higher thrill ride area and keep some of the high school/college type attendees? Something we can promote as a big summer feature, a new anchor ride for one of the parks?

Internet Park Expert: No

Disney Executive: Oh, are we talking about major new type of feature ride, something never seen before like Flight of Pandora? In fact there are 4 new Pandora movies coming out, the next one featuring water environments, maybe some kind of semi-thrill dark ride like Gringotts? Something that has people saying "Wheeeeee" but that kids, parents and grandparents can all ride? We could definitely market that well. The announcement could coincide with the end of the 50th celebration and the new Pandora movies coming out. Going to be tie ins for new merchandise too. Yeah I love that.

Internet Park Expert: Oh no, nothing like that. We were thinking more on the lines of a movie theater, or maybe something like a Winnie the Pooh type ride. But it's important we don't tell anyone about it.

Disney Executive: Don't tell anyone about it.......?

Internet Park Expert: Oh absolutely. We don't want to spend the money on a major attraction that is super impressive and that would draw people to the park. In fact, under our plan, we would build a couple of these smaller type rides without ANYONE finding out at all. We want the rides to be ok, like they work and everything. No one is going to fall off them and break a hip, but not exciting or new enough that anyone who wasn't planning on going to the park this year is going to plan on going just to ride the new rides. AND most importantly we don't want these new rides to appeal to anyone who doesn't already like Disney, and would now plan on coming to the park who hadn't already planned on coming.

Disney Executive:

Internet Park Expert: Oh and in addition to not being anything new, or super exciting the rides main feature is that its going to be super efficient at getting people onto it, and then off again. We are talking about being able to push through thousands of people an hour into and out of this place. It can handle tons of people, but only people who were already going to the park. Remember we can't tell anyone about these new rides. Remember we are not building exciting rides for people to come to the parks to ride, we are building efficient ride for people who have already bought tickets to the park can ride them.

What a long-winded way to say you don't pay much attention to what other posters say. Just to pick out a couple little points - WDW has "the most rides?" Disney has three woefully underbuilt parks, one with eight rides, another with nine. The two parks in California have, if I recall, about as many rides as all of the parks at the Florida resort. And that "saturated market" - yeah, that's exactly the assumption Disney made when they began investing in data-mining and crowd-shifting software instead of new rides - and then Potterland came along and made them look like fools, but fools who were too arrogant to change course.

And on that note, isn't it weird that Universal is adding a third park to that saturated market? And isn't it odd that Universal adds almost yearly attractions without the insane levels of hype Disney pours onto a kiddie coaster? Or did I miss the Bourne Stuntacular Super Bowl add? Is Comcast a badly run company?