News Tron coaster coming to the Magic Kingdom

[Kman101]

Not actually true. It’s the flagship resort, for sure, but the company actually favors DL over WDW in almost all areas, including spend on upgrades, enhancements, maintenance, etc.

Well, I'd start questioning the "maintenance" thing. They seem to be failing a lot more than not and some of their decisions aren't the best. It feels like WDW execs are making the Disneyland decisions now. But yes they started favoring the resort down the street from their offices around the 50th, when it got a nice refresh as a whole and people started actually paying attention to it again. That's about when WDW started getting totally ignored, apart from re-skins (or closing things because they act like they're going out of business) or the occasional new thing, but they seemed reluctant and budget cut everything. I really wish (and I know we all do) they were run better.

I know what they do build costs insane amounts (and even though people call TSL "cheap" it was literally far from it, which makes it all the more head-scratching they still can't really "go all out").

Anyway, to bring it back around, when Eisner was around WDW was the crown jewel. It really grew and got a lot of attention and became the flagship. When Eisner was out so seemed the attention WDW got (numerous tv specials, resorts, water parks, every ABC owned TV show went there). Interesting if you think about it. Disneyland was fairly neglected yet WDW shined. Then it became the opposite. Now both are sort of in the middle. They're adding at WDW because they have to.

 

[doctornick]

Anyway, to bring it back around, when Eisner was around WDW was the crown jewel. It really grew and got a lot of attention and became the flagship. When Eisner was out so seemed the attention WDW got (numerous tv specials, resorts, water parks, every ABC owned TV show went there). Interesting if you think about it. Disneyland was fairly neglected yet WDW shined. Then it became the opposite. Now both are sort of in the middle. They're adding at WDW because they have to.

It's worth noting the the 2017 D23 Parks presentation was heavy on WDW and relatively light on DLR. DLR basically have Pixar Pier (yuck) and some vague Marvel details while WDW had a number of new additions announced.

 

[TiggerDad]

See this thread starting here for a discussion of the crowding issue: 5th Gate v. Bigger MK v. Develop other Parks More. It has some facts to consider.

What makes you think "facts" are welcome around here?

 

[BlakeW39]

WORD!

That's all I got. lol

I agree completely. Stagnation for two decades and budget cutting what actually did get built is a poor way to run the parks.

Imagine if they even built half of what's been "planned"? We, and they, would be much better off. They're playing catch up and still need more, and in a lot of cases not making the right choices. I feel like even though there's the, reluctant, acknowledgment of needing more, they still have their old mind frame of "where can we cut".

I agree. They're making up for 15 years of neglecting WDW, and those budget cuts hurt all of the parks and continue to do so. The parks were in a lesser state and now they wish tp bring them up on par, and while on the right track, they still have a loonnnggg way to go.

 

[brb1006]

Well, I'd start questioning the "maintenance" thing. They seem to be failing a lot more than not and some of their decisions aren't the best. It feels like WDW execs are making the Disneyland decisions now. But yes they started favoring the resort down the street from their offices around the 50th, when it got a nice refresh as a whole and people started actually paying attention to it again. That's about when WDW started getting totally ignored, apart from re-skins (or closing things because they act like they're going out of business) or the occasional new thing, but they seemed reluctant and budget cut everything. I really wish (and I know we all do) they were run better.

I know what they do build costs insane amounts (and even though people call TSL "cheap" it was literally far from it, which makes it all the more head-scratching they still can't really "go all out").

Anyway, to bring it back around, when Eisner was around WDW was the crown jewel. It really grew and got a lot of attention and became the flagship. When Eisner was out so seemed the attention WDW got (numerous tv specials, resorts, water parks, every ABC owned TV show went there). Interesting if you think about it. Disneyland was fairly neglected yet WDW shined. Then it became the opposite. Now both are sort of in the middle. They're adding at WDW because they have to.

I really hope they do a good TV spot for WDW's 50th anniversary and won't turn out like the ABC special for Disneyland's 60th anniversary. Look how good the specials for WDW's 15th and 25th anniversaries turned out.

 

[Kman101]

It's worth noting the the 2017 D23 Parks presentation was heavy on WDW and relatively light on DLR. DLR basically have Pixar Pier (yuck) and some vague Marvel details while WDW had a number of new additions announced.

Which was long overdue (just saying they are playing catch up, I'm not trying to negate what's coming, it's not like they're just adding all of this because they said "why not").

DLR got the WDW treatment, but to be fair it was heavy for DLR (well, DCA + SW at DLR) for a long time.

It's just interesting how things flip and flop (and of course we both agree they need even more than what's announced but it's a great start - one's own personal feelings about each thing coming aside, and most of which was old news to us) -

 

[WDWTrojan]

Yep. And that needs to change. There is no reason that DL should get better treatment than WDW. WDW gets better numbers and the public clearly prefers WDW... so WDW should be treated as top dog and given the most, because it is the top dog, the apex predator of Disney parks and resorts. And the reason why DL is updated more? Because they do spend more resources on WDW as a whole but they don't spend proportionally enough WDW, given that it is a lot larger. I don't know why exactoy they seem to spend more on every other resort... but maybe it is because of WDW's success that they don't do more. Maybe they feel (felt) it's fine as is?

The reason is pretty simple and you just stated it yourself. The numbers at WDW are always sky high, people come regardless. At Disneyland they have a massive local base of tourists and annual pass holders. Both sets of which will come at the slightest hint of something new. This is why Disneyland often gets overlays, fireworks updates, etc. These things translate into millions of additional guests. In Florida, such updates don't really have the same kind of impact - though a big new E-ticket or land can still deliver guests.

This is also why, traditionally, Walt Disney World banked on "year long" celebrations for their marketing campaigns (25th Anniversary, 100 Years of Magic, Millennium, etc), since people plan so far in advance to get there and they can eventize the whole thing. Whereas at Disneyland it's much more attraction-specific (with some exceptions such as the current Pixar Fest) types of campaigns, since most of their guests only need a small reason to come and plan a week or two out.

 

[BlakeW39]

The reason is pretty simple and you just stated it yourself. The numbers at WDW are always sky high, people come regardless. At Disneyland they have a massive local base of tourists and annual pass holders. Both sets of which will come at the slightest hint of something new. This is why Disneyland often gets overlays, fireworks updates, etc. These things translate into millions of additional guests. In Florida, such updates don't really have the same kind of impact - though a big new E-ticket or land can still deliver guests.

This is also why, traditionally, Walt Disney World banked on "year long" celebrations for their marketing campaigns (25th Anniversary, 100 Years of Magic, Millennium, etc), since people plan so far in advance to get there and they can eventize the whole thing. Whereas at Disneyland it's much more attraction-specific (with some exceptions such as the current Pixar Fest) types of campaigns, since most of their guests only need a small reason to come and plan a week or two out.

Your thesis that updates to Disneyland are more well recieved and compensated for than updates at Walt Disney World is improbable, since while WDW relies more upon tourism based upon itself, we can see that Disney guests are, for the most part, going to return. How oftek they return is based upon an incentive of if there is anything for them to experience that they haven't. We also aren't just talking about DL vs MK. It's also DCA vs EC, DHS, and DAK. Just because guests are coming to Orlando does not mean they are doing all of the parks, and so new stuff is crucial to the other 3 parks' success in many ways. They can come down and decide to do Islands of Adventure rather than Hollywood Studios. Just look at what Pandora did for DAK. If you add more to a park, it is more likely that a guest will chose it over another of the many Orlando parks. This is something that Orlando has more of over Disneyland. So all in all I think a potential gain following the introduction of new content should be about equal. What I also said in my post was that Disney does invest more in WDW than in DL, and they do, I think it's that they've messed a lot of it up and still not done quite enough for the 4 (6 counting water) parks that they have.

 

[EricsBiscuit]

Your thesis that updates to Disneyland are more well recieved and compensated for than updates at Walt Disney World is improbable, since while WDW relies more upon tourism based upon itself, we can see that Disney guests are, for the most part, going to return. How oftek they return is based upon an incentive of if there is anything for them to experience that they haven't. We also aren't just talking about DL vs MK. It's also DCA vs EC, DHS, and DAK. Just because guests are coming to Orlando does not mean they are doing all of the parks, and so new stuff is crucial to the other 3 parks' success in many ways. They can come down and decide to do Islands of Adventure rather than Hollywood Studios. Just look at what Pandora did for DAK. If you add more to a park, it is more likely that a guest will chose it over another of the many Orlando parks. This is something that Orlando has more of over Disneyland. So all in all I think a potential gain following the introduction of new content should be about equal. What I also said in my post was that Disney does invest more in WDW than in DL, and they do, I think it's that they've messed a lot of it up and still not done quite enough for the 4 (6 counting water) parks that they have.

Exactly. Their only criteria for returning is if there's something new. They most likely won't pay several thousand dollars for a trip just to see projection mapping on BTMRR. They will to see a whole new land.

 

[Kman101]

The reason is pretty simple and you just stated it yourself. The numbers at WDW are always sky high, people come regardless. At Disneyland they have a massive local base of tourists and annual pass holders. Both sets of which will come at the slightest hint of something new. This is why Disneyland often gets overlays, fireworks updates, etc. These things translate into millions of additional guests. In Florida, such updates don't really have the same kind of impact - though a big new E-ticket or land can still deliver guests.

This is also why, traditionally, Walt Disney World banked on "year long" celebrations for their marketing campaigns (25th Anniversary, 100 Years of Magic, Millennium, etc), since people plan so far in advance to get there and they can eventize the whole thing. Whereas at Disneyland it's much more attraction-specific (with some exceptions such as the current Pixar Fest) types of campaigns, since most of their guests only need a small reason to come and plan a week or two out.

I disagree that seasonal things wouldn't draw in guests at WDW. They've just spent two decades telling you they won't. WDW just doesn't want to spend the money. (people flock to Epcot's festivals)

There's no reason they can't overlay Country Bears and Small World with Christmas overlays. They just don't "need" to so they don't. They have no problem doing Jungle Cruise. They're doing some things for Halloween with Pirates. They're doing passholder extra magic hours events now. I think they are seeing the benefit of a quick gain by doing these things. (I'm torn on the Haunted Mansion overlay; I love Nightmare but I agree it might not work to overhaul WDW's HM every year with the overlay but it's not like it wasn't once planned. Both Small World and Haunted Mansion holiday overlays were reportedly designed for WDW but went to Tokyo instead)

 

[Unplugged]

There's no reason they can't overlay Country Bears and Small World with Christmas overlays. They just don't "need" to so they don't.

Unfortunately, I'd say you're absolutely correct. TDO's modern view is, as you said, "we don't need to and it costs us". This is what I find most unfortunate about the current state of "the World" as they used to be focused on great show and did things because they could and it made it more "once in a lifetime" to see for many.

I give them points in that they have been investing billions into the resort during Iger's reign, which is good to see. But often, it's the little things that makes it special. I miss that.

 

[Kman101]

Unfortunately, I'd say you're absolutely correct. TDO's modern view is, as you said, "we don't need to and it costs us". This is what I find most unfortunate about the current state of "the World" as they used to be focused on great show and did things because they could and it made it more "once in a lifetime" to see for many.

I give them points in that they have been investing billions into the resort during Iger's reign, which is good to see. But often, it's the little things that makes it special. I miss that.

I really really wish they did things "because they could". Now they do things because they "have to".

I totally agree about the little things. I've thought way too much about various ways things could have been done better or if they just made a different choice instead. The parks could have been in a much healthier state. It's a good start what they're doing but they need to keep the momentum going. They need constant investment. But I fear another period of resting on their laurels. But I don't think they're able to get away with that anymore. But many still seem to have the same mindframe of budget cutting, which they really need to learn only causes you to spend more money later, but they only think short-term. No one there besides Rhode at AK seems to be thinking about the park long-term. They're not addressing true issues that need addressing. More attractions is a great start but the low capacity thing is another problem (thankfully it sounds like they are now aware of the problem).

I also still question the decisions on where they place things. That's the problem with short-term thinking. Galaxy's Edge should not have replaced the backlot area. But maybe they have bigger ideas for the rest of DHS we have no clue about. I hope so.

I also think cutting the theater at MK was a mistake. I guess it depends on what they do with the money instead (it sounds like a shifting of funds, not a cut). I know a theater is something that can virtually be added anytime but capacity wise the park really would have benefitted. TRON hurts the capacity. Clock's ticking, 2021 is right around the corner.

Another mistake was the Guardians coaster in Epcot. Fine, put a coaster in. I like the Guardians. I'll eventually suck it up. I still think it's a tad lazy (but would depend on execution of course). Don't suck up an entire pavilion for pre-shows and queue space and then waste an expansion pad with an eyesore building.

They're doing the right thing spending money, finally, but they're making poor decisions (again, they're thinking short-term, not long-term)

 

[phillip9698]

I disagree that seasonal things wouldn't draw in guests at WDW. They've just spent two decades telling you they won't. WDW just doesn't want to spend the money. (people flock to Epcot's festivals)

There's no reason they can't overlay Country Bears and Small World with Christmas overlays. They just don't "need" to so they don't. They have no problem doing Jungle Cruise. They're doing some things for Halloween with Pirates. They're doing passholder extra magic hours events now. I think they are seeing the benefit of a quick gain by doing these things. (I'm torn on the Haunted Mansion overlay; I love Nightmare but I agree it might not work to overhaul WDW's HM every year with the overlay but it's not like it wasn't once planned. Both Small World and Haunted Mansion holiday overlays were reportedly designed for WDW but went to Tokyo instead)

Disneylands rides close for those overlays though. It's one thing to close rides when the park is heavily visited by locals that can come for repeat visits but WDW is a different animal. You don't want premiere attractions closed for a month for an overlay each year there because it may be someone's only trip to the park and they would miss the ride. If I knew rides were definitely closing for overlays during a specific time frame I would never schedule a trip during that month.

 

[Mike S]

Disneylands rides close for those overlays though. It's one thing to close rides when the park is heavily visited by locals that can come for repeat visits but WDW is a different animal. You don't want premiere attractions closed for a month for an overlay each year there because it may be someone's only trip to the park and they would miss the ride. If I knew rides were definitely closing for overlays during a specific time frame I would never schedule a trip during that month.

By that logic nothing should ever close unless there’s a safety issue and it’s required by law or “someone might miss it.”

 

[phillip9698]

By that logic nothing should ever close unless there’s a safety issue and it’s required by law or “someone might miss it.”

There is a difference between closing something for a refurbishment and closing specific rides every year for overlays.

If you told me that each November a lot of the rides I want to experience will be closed then I wouldn't plan a trip in November.

 

[Kman101]

Disneylands rides close for those overlays though. It's one thing to close rides when the park is heavily visited by locals that can come for repeat visits but WDW is a different animal. You don't want premiere attractions closed for a month for an overlay each year there because it may be someone's only trip to the park and they would miss the ride. If I knew rides were definitely closing for overlays during a specific time frame I would never schedule a trip during that month.

And that's why I feel like they're in the middle of these things. They might want to do overlays (likely not) but it seems unneccessary to close something down for an entire month. I guess if the parks had truly expanded like they should have, something going down for a month like at Disneyland would be a blip on the radar. But because there's so few things to do, something going down is a major problem. And it shouldn't be.

 

[Kman101]

There is a difference between closing something for a refurbishment and closing specific rides every year for overlays.

If you told me that each November a lot of the rides I want to experience will be closed then I wouldn't plan a trip in November.

But what if the park had double of what's there now? Surely a few rides closed wouldn't be the end of the world.

The truth is Disney has failed to expand the WDW parks. They now are unable to close things because it's so impactful. Something closing for a month shouldn't be that impactful. I understand what you're saying but the problem is it shouldn't even matter if these rides are closed for a month if there were truly enough to do.

 

[Jones14]

I think what makes the lack of overlays frustrating is that there are several attractions on property that could easily implement them with little (if any) downtime. Haunted Mansion Holiday takes a lot of time and effort, but they could easily design some Halloween games for Toy Story Mania and put up some fall decorations in the land pretty much overnight.

It is nice that they’re adding some things for the party, though.

 

[TiggerDad]

So the Tron coaster is going to have seasonal overlays? Or did I stumble into the wrong thread?

 

[phillip9698]

But what if the park had double of what's there now? Surely a few rides closed wouldn't be the end of the world.

The truth is Disney has failed to expand the WDW parks. They now are unable to close things because it's so impactful. Something closing for a month shouldn't be that impactful. I understand what you're saying but the problem is it shouldn't even matter if these rides are closed for a month if there were truly enough to do.

It honestly would depend on the rides. If you told me Small World, Peter Pan, and Poo were closing for overlays it wouldn't impact me. But if it's my only trip and you start talking about rides I've been hearing great things about all my life like Pirates, Haunted Mansion, Space Mountain, and Splash Mountain then under no circumstance would I plan a trip to the park knowing those attractions would be closed.