Toy Story Land expansion announced for Disney's Hollywood Studios

[MisterPenguin]

People are starting to get on the band wagon of "they used up too much space" for TSL.

But imagine if they used half the space. Just from the new entrance to the parking garage and squeezed in Swirling, a coaster, and a QS (and a shop since every one seems to hate the loss of the candy shop). Imagine all that in half the space.

Bet there'd be just as many (if not the same people) complaining how cramped it was and how they cheaped out on set design.

Jus' sayin'.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Ride Time is not the same as Cycle Time.

Sure. They can send a train out. Wait for it to come all the way back. Wait an extra five minutes and then send out another train. In that case, ride time and cycle time would be wildly different.

But they tend not to do that. They tend to send out a vehicle as soon as they can. Which makes Ride Time and Cycle Time theoretically the same (operationally, it may be off due to ineffeciency, but we tend to be talking THRC when we talk about a rides capacity rather than it's OHRC).

And if they can send out multiple vehicles, then they send out multiple vehicles. If they can send out two vehicles that doubles the rides capacity. Three triples it. And so on.

So, let's use extreme examples to show the relation of Ride Time with Cycle Time: Let's say for Slinky, the ride time is one second. And so, they send out one train per second. But what if they ride time was one hour? Then they send out one train per hour. Do you see now how Ride Time and Cycle Time are related to each other? Do you need more examples so that you can grasp this concept?

The numbers I gave were THRC based on the train's size, number of trains, and the ride's length in time. They're perfectly good numbers and the formulas I use comport 100% with the THRC of many other rides as stated by our insider experts who've revealed other rides official THRC.

So, I hope you now understand how to figure out a ride's capacity. If you have any other questions, I'd be happy to teach you!

 

[lazyboy97o]

Sure. They can send a train out. Wait for it to come all the way back. Wait an extra five minutes and then send out another train. In that case, ride time and cycle time would be wildly different.

But they tend not to do that. They tend to send out a vehicle as soon as they can. Which makes Ride Time and Cycle Time theoretically the same (operationally, it may be off due to ineffeciency, but we tend to be talking THRC when we talk about a rides capacity rather than it's OHRC).

And if they can send out multiple vehicles, then they send out multiple vehicles. If they can send out two vehicles that doubles the rides capacity. Three triples it. And so on.

So, let's use extreme examples to show the relation of Ride Time with Cycle Time: Let's say for Slinky, the ride time is one second. And so, they send out one train per second. But what if they ride time was one hour? Then they send out one train per hour. Do you see now how Ride Time and Cycle Time are related to each other? Do you need more examples so that you can grasp this concept?

The numbers I gave were THRC based on the train's size, number of trains, and the ride's length in time. They're perfectly good numbers and the formulas I use comport 100% with the THRC of many other rides as stated by our insider experts who've revealed other rides official THRC.

So, I hope you now understand how to figure out a ride's capacity. If you have any other questions, I'd be happy to teach you!

All you’ve explained is that you don’t know how to do the calculation.
THRC = (60 min / Cycle Time) * Seats
Cycle Time = Load Time + Ride Time + Unload Time
Loading and unloading is not instantaneous and it doesn’t become insteaneous with multiple vehicles. A vehicle with a 1 minute ride time cannot do 60 cycles per hour.

 

[MisterPenguin]

All you’ve explained is that you don’t know how to do the calculation.
THRC = (60 min / Cycle Time) * Seats
Cycle Time = Load Time + Ride Time + Unload Time
Loading and unloading is not instantaneous and it doesn’t become insteaneous with multiple vehicles. A vehicle with a 1 minute ride time cannot do 60 cycles per hour.

All you've done is show you don't understand how an attraction can have an extra vehicle in the load station ready to go.

 

[TragicMike]

 

[lazyboy97o]

All you've done is show you don't understand how an attraction can have an extra vehicle in the load station ready to go.

That doesn’t change the formula. A 1 min ride time plus 1 min load/unload time is a 2 minute cycle time. That means 30 cycles per hour for each train. The other train always being ready for dispatch doesn’t increase the number of cycles each train can complete.

 

[MisterPenguin]

That doesn’t change the formula. A 1 min ride time plus 1 min load/unload time is a 2 minute cycle time. That means 30 cycles per hour for each train. The other train always being ready for dispatch doesn’t increase the number of cycles each train can complete.

Unless you have two vehicles in loading/unloading. And look, if I remember correctly, Slinky has four vehicles. They can keep two out at all times.

 

[PizzaPlanet]

No one here is asking the important questions. How does this land fit into the Toy Story canon?

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

Since there are four parks in WDW, the choice to go to DHS is strictly that of the guest. No one has to go there unless they feel that it is worth it. There is no provision that say one must go to that park. If someone feels it isn't worth the money all they have to do is not go to it. This idea that doesn't provide enough things to do is totally bogus. There are actually more separate things to do now then the day it first opened.

Where do we get off deciding what to charge for anything. The only choice we have is either to pay it and go or not pay it and don't go. Consider it a three park resort. We at one point only had one choice and that was MK and even then there wasn't a lot of things to do when it opened up. It seems worse now at DHS because they are finally responding to the dissatisfaction with the way it was. The plans are big, the construction is big and for a time it only has the fewer things that are still open but still more then opening day (no discounted rate back then). I will reiterate, NO ONE HAS TO GO TO IT IF THEY DON'T THINK IT IS WORTH THE MONEY! Skip it until it has whatever number you consider to be appropriate and spend an extra day in Epcot or DAK or MK instead.

More than when it opened . . . yet less than there were 4 years ago by a good margin. And keep in mind, expansion was already underway on opening day because it was known even then that the park didn't have enough things to do.

Of course Disney isn't forcing anyone to enter the park, but to cut so much from the park's menu and charge the same amount is disrespectful to your customer base - both those know know what's happening like us and those who aren't as well informed and expect based on the price point a park fleshed out similarly to the other three. We who read up on these construction projects can let that slide for a little bit when it's in the name of making major improvements to the park . . . but Toy Story Land isn't poised to fix the park issues it was meant to address.

The way DHS has been being run for the past 4 years or so is bad business, plain and simple. Star Wars Land will go a long way towards correcting for that, but the fact that Toy Story Land will do basically little toward that end is yet more bad business practice. True, no one is being forced to go! But what a lousy motto for the "rebirth" of this park.

The Time, Money, Space, and Creative Resource offered to the Toy Story project should have been enough to put this park majorly back on track. It's gonna hurt this summer if all that comes to a head with the marketing campaign that portrays this as a major addition to the park when it really isn't one. There's no reason a company like Disney couldn't have handled this better.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Unless you have two vehicles in loading/unloading. And look, if I remember correctly, Slinky has four vehicles. They can keep two out at all times.

More trains does not decrease cycle time. Each train still takes just as long to load, go through the ride and unload; completing the same number of cycles per hour. There is no way to negate loading and unloading.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

No one here is asking the important questions. How does this land fit into the Toy Story canon?

Jessie and Wheezy are present but we're still in Andy's backyard, so it seems we're somewhere in the space between Toy Story 2 and Toy Story 3. And Andy must still be young enough to be playing with the toys in his backyard, so closer to TS2 on the sliding scale . . . but the presence of some of Bonnie's toys in Toy Story Mania is slightly at odds with this. So . . . Question Mark?

 

[MisterPenguin]

No one here is asking the important questions. How does this land fit into the Toy Story canon?

I'm disappointed there isn't some giant fire pit into which you can see the toys sinking and struggling to get out of.

 

[MisterPenguin]

More trains does not decrease cycle time. Each train still takes just as long to load, go through the ride and unload; completing the same number of cycles per hour. There is no way to negate loading and unloading.

Assume: 2 minute ride. 2 minutes to unload/reload. Assume you are able to send a second vehicle out once the first hits the block brakes half-way through the ride at the one minute mark.

Then, if you had one and only one train, the train goes around the tracks in two minutes. It spends 2 minutes in loading. Goes out again. 4 minute cycle. With one train, that's one train every 4 minutes.

Then with two trains: First train goes out. When it gets past the first block at the 1 minute mark, second train goes out at the beginning of the second minute. One minute later (the beginning of the 3rd minute), the first train enters stations and begins the 2 minute reload. In the next minute (the fourth) the next train comes in while the first train is reloading. Next minute (the 5th) the first train goes out again, and a minute later the next train. So, every 4 minutes, two trains go out.

Then with three trains: First train goes out. Next minute, the second. Third minute, the third train goes out while the first comes in to unload. In the fourth minute, the first train is now reloading. The first train is not ready to go until the 5th minute. So, every 4 minutes, three trains go out.

Then with four trains: First train goes out. Next minute, the second. Third minute, the third train goes out while the first comes to unload. In the fourth minute, the fourth train goes out while the first is now reloading and the second train is unloading. In the fifth minute, the first train is ready to go out again. Every minute a train leaves the station. In four minutes, 4 trains. A train per minute.

Extra vehicles in the station getting ready to go means there's always a vehicle ready to go whenever it's possible to send the next out.

Think of an omnimover. It is always sending a car out when one arrives. You don't figure in load/unload because it's obvious that the load/unload happens in the station without delaying the sending out of the next vehicle. Same thing for vehicles even when there's a gap in time before sending the next one out, if you have enough extra cars and/or an extra loading station. This way, you can always have a vehicle ready to send out at the next possible opportunity.

Extra vehicles can remove the unload/load time from the cycle equation. (Although, nothing can obviate problems with people who load incorrectly and cause an E-stop.)

 

[Disneyhead'71]

This coaster can only use 3 trains at a time.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Assume: 2 minute ride. 2 minutes to unload/reload. Assume you are able to send a second vehicle out once the first hits the block brakes half-way through the ride at the one minute mark.

Then, if you had one and only one train, the train goes around the tracks in two minutes. It spends 2 minutes in loading. Goes out again. 4 minute cycle. With one train, that's one train every 4 minutes.

Then with two trains: First train goes out. When it gets past the first block at the 1 minute mark, second train goes out at the beginning of the second minute. One minute later (the beginning of the 3rd minute), the first train enters stations and begins the 2 minute reload. In the next minute (the fourth) the next train comes in while the first train is reloading. Next minute (the 5th) the first train goes out again, and a minute later the next train. So, every 4 minutes, two trains go out.

Then with three trains: First train goes out. Next minute, the second. Third minute, the third train goes out while the first comes in to unload. In the fourth minute, the first train is now reloading. The first train is not ready to go until the 5th minute. So, every 4 minutes, three trains go out.

Then with four trains: First train goes out. Next minute, the second. Third minute, the third train goes out while the first comes to unload. In the fourth minute, the fourth train goes out while the first is now reloading and the second train is unloading. In the fifth minute, the first train is ready to go out again. Every minute a train leaves the station. In four minutes, 4 trains. A train per minute.

Extra vehicles in the station getting ready to go means there's always a vehicle ready to go whenever it's possible to send the next out.

Think of an omnimover. It is always sending a car out when one arrives. You don't figure in load/unload because it's obvious that the load/unload happens in the station without delaying the sending out of the next vehicle. Same thing for vehicles even when there's a gap in time before sending the next one out, if you have enough extra cars and/or an extra loading station. This way, you can always have a vehicle ready to send out at the next possible opportunity.

Extra vehicles can remove the unload/load time from the cycle equation. (Although, nothing can obviate problems with people who load incorrectly and cause an E-stop.)

Cycle and dispatch are not the same.

60 minutes * (1 train / 4 minute cycle) = 15 cycles per train.
This is a baseline. No train can do more than 15 cycles in one hour. In your examples each additional train is somehow increasing the number of cycles each train completes every hour.

60 minutes * (2 trains / 4 minute cycle) = 30 cycles per train
60 minutes * (1 train / 2 minute cycle) = 30 cycles per train

60 minutes * (3 trains / 4 minute cycle) = 45 cycles per train
60 minutes * (1 train / 1.33 minute cycle) = 45 cycles per train

60 minutes * (4 trains / 4 minute cycle) = 60 cycles per train
60 minutes * (1 train / 1 minute cycle) = 60 cycles per train

Your cycle times for three and four train operations are less than your 2 minute ride times.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Cycle and dispatch are not the same.

60 minutes * (1 train / 4 minute cycle) = 15 cycles per train.
This is a baseline. No train can do more than 15 cycles in one hour. In your examples each additional train is somehow increasing the number of cycles each train completes every hour.

60 minutes * (2 trains / 4 minute cycle) = 30 cycles per train
60 minutes * (1 train / 2 minute cycle) = 30 cycles per train

60 minutes * (3 trains / 4 minute cycle) = 45 cycles per train
60 minutes * (1 train / 1.33 minute cycle) = 45 cycles per train

60 minutes * (4 trains / 4 minute cycle) = 60 cycles per train
60 minutes * (1 train / 1 minute cycle) = 60 cycles per train

Your cycle times for three and four train operations are less than your 2 minute ride times.

PPH is based on dispatch, not cycle times for individual vehicles. You're counting the time the vehicle is in the station against dispatch. And that is irrelevant if you have other trains to send while reload is happening.

While trains are idling in the station, other trains are going with people. You have to count how often people leave the station for PPH.

 

[MisterPenguin]

This coaster can only use 3 trains at a time.

Two on the tracks and one in the station reloading?

 

[danlb_2000]

Two on the tracks and one in the station reloading?

That would seem right since you would have a break zone before the second launch and one right before unload.

 

[ToTBellHop]

That would seem right since you would have a break zone before the second launch and one right before unload.

It could theoretically run 4 but stupid guests make that operationally unnecessarily. So it will routinely be 1 on track, 1 at load, 1 at unload.

And when I say 1000, I’m not talking THRC. I’m talking operational. Trains do not routinely dispatch at ideal intervals and are not always full. Disney runs enough rides to know these ratios.

 

[Coaster Lover]

No one here is asking the important questions. How does this land fit into the Toy Story canon?

When Andy's Mom and Dad were getting a divorce, it was especially emotionally draining to Andy so he would often play in his back yard to escape the yelling and fighting. He would think back to happier times in his life like when he went to EPCOT as a kid and try and recreate those moments to better be able to relive them... they sorta glossed over this part during a montage in the first movie, but it's all there...