Toy Story Land expansion announced for Disney's Hollywood Studios

[Goofyque']

I've always liked being able to see other things off in the distance.

I think this way too! So excited to get my first overhead glimpse of the slinky dog coaster from ToT! It was awesome. Like the old skyway, a great part of being up is the joy of seeing all the different lands/buildings. This is not new, it is a tale as old as time. Splash, Big thunder, Swiss family, Astro Orbitors, skyway, all of these offer a glimpse behind the curtain.

 

[Casper Gutman]

I think this way too! So excited to get my first overhead glimpse of the slinky dog coaster from ToT! It was awesome. Like the old skyway, a great part of being up is the joy of seeing all the different lands/buildings. This is not new, it is a tale as old as time. Splash, Big thunder, Swiss family, Astro Orbitors, skyway, all of these offer a glimpse behind the curtain.

I agree - glimpses "behind the curtain" can be awesome. They are a tool in the imagineer's repertoire, one that can be deployed very skillfully, as on ToT. They make a virtue from the fact that is is functionally impossible to make every land visually contained and to theme every structure from every conceivable angle.

But...

For these glimpses to be meaningful, the "curtain" must be present and intact a vast majority of the time. TSL is making only the most perfunctory attempt at theming and immersion - it's a collection of naked, poorly-planned rides, inconsistent scale, and boxy structures with light, spotty decoration. It's on the level of Mickey's Birthdayland, but its an expensive, permanent land that is touted as half of an incomplete park's long-delayed, desperately needed reimagining rather then a temporary area that overstayed its welcome. Being able to glimpse "behind the curtain" isn't exciting if the curtain is full of gigantic, moth-eaten holes anyway.

 

[Incomudro]

I think this way too! So excited to get my first overhead glimpse of the slinky dog coaster from ToT! It was awesome. Like the old skyway, a great part of being up is the joy of seeing all the different lands/buildings. This is not new, it is a tale as old as time. Splash, Big thunder, Swiss family, Astro Orbitors, skyway, all of these offer a glimpse behind the curtain.

Exactly.
Those views of those other places off in the distance - I've always loved that.

 

[Goofyque']

I agree - glimpses "behind the curtain" can be awesome. They are a tool in the imagineer's repertoire, one that can be deployed very skillfully, as on ToT. They make a virtue from the fact that is is functionally impossible to make every land visually contained and to theme every structure from every conceivable angle.

But...

For these glimpses to be meaningful, the "curtain" must be present and intact a vast majority of the time. TSL is making only the most perfunctory attempt at theming and immersion - it's a collection of naked, poorly-planned rides, inconsistent scale, and boxy structures with light, spotty decoration. It's on the level of Mickey's Birthdayland, but its an expensive, permanent land that is touted as half of an incomplete park's long-delayed, desperately needed reimagining rather then a temporary area that overstayed its welcome. Being able to glimpse "behind the curtain" isn't exciting if the curtain is full of gigantic, moth-eaten holes anyway.

Could be. I'll bet our family still loves it, know when we're riding Alien saucers, the boxy buildings will be the furthest thing from our minds. If not, I will certainly let you all know!

 

[BoarderPhreak]

That fence hiding the parking garage (and vice versa) doesn't look so hot. Though I suppose there's no other way, other than bringing in really big trees. But they would spoil the illusion of the scene; the coaster being a toy, etc.

 

[Kman101]

Concerns? Sure. You obscure what you can without being OCD about it or breaking the bank.

But, obsessively creating a cocoon wherein absolutely nothing unthemed or belonging to a different theme is seen from within a land? That is very recent. You're delusional if you think that goes back decades or actually accomplished that decades ago or is somehow the de facto norm that every new land must adhere to. You can see the castle from everywhere. Every tall ride that's in the open, even partially, is going to give you a view of not only the whole park but see things outside the park. Everest, Tower of Terror, Matterhorn, even the People Mover let you see past the land you're in. If you think Slinky Dog is breaking decades old tradition, you're high.

You must not have received the memo that this land is trash and must be hated.

 

[180º]

We get it. You hate the 'bare' coaster. Not every new land is going to be a E-level Land. Just like not every new ride is going to be an E-Ticket Ride. I'm sorry for your disappointment. But go ahead and suppose people don't care because they don't agree with you.

Why so salty? I think you have a point but I agree somewhat with the others that sight lines, while not always executed perfectly, are traditionally important in Disney theme parks. It’s not all either Slinky Dog or Diagon Alley. There are levels of quality in between.

 

[splashtest]

This is an ariel view of a Land that is not yet complete. What is appears to look like from the sky will be very different once you're immersed. I'm waiting to hold my opinion until I am there in September. I'm still very excited for this.

 

[danlb_2000]

That fence hiding the parking garage (and vice versa) doesn't look so hot. Though I suppose there's no other way, other than bringing in really big trees. But they would spoil the illusion of the scene; the coaster being a toy, etc.

I actually think that will look pretty good when you are actually in the land.

 

[BoarderPhreak]

I actually think that will look pretty good when you are actually in the land.

I'm sure it will be. Seeing it from the air and unfinished is no way to judge it. From the ground with the forced perspective, etc. all working to full effect it'll probably look pretty cool.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Wait... not every land is going to be E-level? Why the heck is that OK? This is a Disney park - the reason they are special is the level of detail and theming in every public space, big or small. And now, when WDW is charging absolutely absurd prices for tickets, rooms, and everything else, when they have let the parks stagnate for decades, guests are supposed to be content that not every new land will be E-level? What, then, is the purpose of a Disney park?

Funny, when I opine that every ride should be an E-Ticket, I always get the theme parks experts railing against that idea.

If every land should be an E-Level Land, then shouldn't all the old C- and B-Level Lands get updated? After all, by the modern standard you're hold a land up to, all the lands of the MK fail miserably. So, let's start building those berms to separate all the MK lands from each other. Let's completely enclose the People Mover and the first climb hill of Everest. Let's nail shut the door atop the Tower of Terror. Because the worst thing that could happen to a theme park land is to see anything outside that land.

We are getting the E-Level Lands in Pandora and SWL. And we're getting a D-Level Land in TSL (and if you want to call that a C-Level, well then make sure you call the lands in the MK "B-Level" because they break the thematic purity much worse than TSL).

 

[twebber55]

Funny, when I opine that every ride should be an E-Ticket, I always get the theme parks experts railing against that idea.

If every land should be an E-Level Land, then shouldn't all the old C- and B-Level Lands get updated? After all, by the modern standard you're hold a land up to, all the lands of the MK fail miserably. So, let's start building those berms to separate all the MK lands from each other. Let's completely enclose the People Mover and the first climb hill of Everest. Let's nail shut the door atop the Tower of Terror. Because the worst thing that could happen to a theme park land is to see anything outside that land.

We are getting the E-Level Lands in Pandora and SWL. And we're getting a D-Level Land in TSL (and if you want to call that a C-Level, well then make sure you call the lands in the MK "B-Level" because they break the thematic purity much worse than TSL).

you bring up a good point about level of lands in regards to themeing and immersion
TSL is simply a C/D level land tops in terms of immersion not even close to what Pandora is or SWGE will be
Sight lines should be part of the immersion which doesnt mean every land i go into i expect to see no other lands if thats the case MK should close down and be rebuilt
just my opinion of course

 

[MisterPenguin]

Why so salty? I think you have a point but I agree somewhat with the others that sight lines, while not always executed perfectly, are traditionally important in Disney theme parks. It’s not all either Slinky Dog or Diagon Alley. There are levels of quality in between.

You miss the history with them. They're really mad that Slinky-Dog isn't an enclosed E-Ticket thrill ride that's the new, best-ever ride in the world. And so, they'll come up with their own ridiculously high standards for what a new land should be and constantly rail the TSL doesn't meet it. We've been through these discussions of seeing outside the land atop Slinky Dog, and that Slinky Dog is 'bare' and not enclosed, and how a there isn't a strict scale to all toys and objects compared to people. They've said it many times before. Their standards are their standards but they proclaim them as if they were chiseled on stone tablets by the Creator Himself. If it's not E-Level all the way its carp to them. And they carp all over it again and again.

I was expecting this since they can't help themselves...

You may now proceed to rage...

 

[Skibum1970]

Funny, when I opine that every ride should be an E-Ticket, I always get the theme parks experts railing against that idea.

If every land should be an E-Level Land, then shouldn't all the old C- and B-Level Lands get updated? After all, by the modern standard you're hold a land up to, all the lands of the MK fail miserably. So, let's start building those berms to separate all the MK lands from each other. Let's completely enclose the People Mover and the first climb hill of Everest. Let's nail shut the door atop the Tower of Terror. Because the worst thing that could happen to a theme park land is to see anything outside that land.

We are getting the E-Level Lands in Pandora and SWL. And we're getting a D-Level Land in TSL (and if you want to call that a C-Level, well then make sure you call the lands in the MK "B-Level" because they break the thematic purity much worse than TSL).

My complaint is not the theming or lack thereof. It's the bare bones approach to the land itself (not how the coaster was themed). A dark ride would have been more effective, from a capacity and interest level (for me, maybe not everybody). Probably two dark rides. I love coasters but like Disney offering dark rides more. It is one thing that sets them apart from a standard amusement park.

Theming wise, if we're supposed to be tiny, the trees there should be blades of grass. So, the whole intent just falls apart. However, that doesn't bother me. I've said this before. I don't think that I'm on Mt. Everest when riding the Everest coaster. I'm not in space on Space Mountain. I guess that it doesn't destroy my enjoyment.

 

[disneyworlddad]

My complaint is not the theming or lack thereof. It's the bare bones approach. A dark ride would have been more effective, from a capacity and interest level. Probably two dark rides. I love coasters but like Disney offering dark rides more. It is one thing that sets them apart from a standard amusement park.

Theming wise, if we're supposed to be tiny, the trees there should be blades of grass. So, the whole intent just falls apart. However, that doesn't bother me. I've said this before. I don't think that I'm on Mt. Everest when riding the Everest coaster. I'm not in space on Space Mountain.

To your tree point - have you ever seen a sapling evergreen tree? They look almost the same at a full grown tree just smaller and little more sparse. In the area I grew up in we could have them sprout randomly just about anywhere. I think that is why they chose the trees that they did. Perspective isn't going to be perfect. We'd actaully be about the same size as grass because buzz, woody and the gang are actually much taller than grass.

 

[Skibum1970]

To your tree point - have you ever seen a sapling evergreen tree? They look almost the same at a full grown tree just smaller and little more sparse. In the area I grew up in we could have them sprout randomly just about anywhere. I think that is why they chose the trees that they did. Perspective isn't going to be perfect. We'd actaully be about the same size as grass because buzz, woody and the gang are actually much taller than grass.

Totally agree. Growing up, evergreen trees learned to grow quickly or else I'd mow them down.

 

[disneyworlddad]

Totally agree. Growing up, evergreen trees learned to grow quickly or else I'd mow them down.

Mowed over my fair share of them as well.

 

[smile]

TSL is making only the most perfunctory attempt at theming and immersion

an inherent flaw with the global tsl insertion - it's an easy way out...
does toy story not deserve more than a lightly concealed intamin shuttle (yawn) or a relatively naked mack family launch coaster?

and since when is the essence of toy story been about shrinking down to the size of a green army man?
since someone realized that giant jessies are good enough thematic problem solvers.

largely the same approach to value resorts, mind you - coincidence?

 

[FerretAfros]

Funny, when I opine that every ride should be an E-Ticket, I always get the theme parks experts railing against that idea.

If every land should be an E-Level Land, then shouldn't all the old C- and B-Level Lands get updated? After all, by the modern standard you're hold a land up to, all the lands of the MK fail miserably. So, let's start building those berms to separate all the MK lands from each other. Let's completely enclose the People Mover and the first climb hill of Everest. Let's nail shut the door atop the Tower of Terror. Because the worst thing that could happen to a theme park land is to see anything outside that land.

We are getting the E-Level Lands in Pandora and SWL. And we're getting a D-Level Land in TSL (and if you want to call that a C-Level, well then make sure you call the lands in the MK "B-Level" because they break the thematic purity much worse than TSL).

There's a difference between every attraction being an E-ticket and every land being properly themed. This has nothing to do with the scale of the addition, and everything to do with the execution of it. I'm not sure what you mean by MK lands failing to live up to your mythical E-Level Land standards. For the most part, the existing lands throughout WDW are pretty consistent in execution; the detailing of Adventureland, the UK pavilion, and Sunset Blvd are all about the same level.

For attractions, it's good to have a variety of types in order to fill out the parkgoing experience. It's similar to a restaurant menu, where there are all types of dishes of varying size and price, but the execution of the dishes is expected to be uniform across the board. Just because something isn't the headliner doesn't mean that it should be exempted from quality standards.

To prove that the quality of a themed area isn't directly linked to the attractions in it, let's consider the Morocco pavilion at Epcot. It has no attractions, but a top-notch attention to detail. It's a pleasant place to explore and absorb details, wandering through hidden passages with surprises around every corner. People seem to genuinely enjoy discovering what's there, and I often see groups lingering in quiet corners. Are there occasional visual intrusions poking up above the horizon? Sure, but they're no more distracting than the swarms of tourists or Disney-branded trash cans.

Now consider the Backlot area of Walt Disney Studios Parc. It contains a headliner stunt show, D/E-ticket rollercoaster, and a C/D-ticket walkthrough show, but almost no theming to speak of. The main walkway is flat asphalt with plain warehouse-type buildings on either side; the only decorations are the oversized marquees that attempt to hide the industrial structures. It's such an unpleasant environment that it's difficult to find photos online that show the whole area; nobody lingers here any longer than necessary. There are no real visual intrusions, because there's no attempt to define what does and doesn't belong in this environment

Which of these has headliner attractions? Which of these is a pleasant environment that's worth the price of admission? Just because attractions aren't headliners doesn't mean that the themed environment doesn't need to be up to par

 

[MisterPenguin]

There's a difference between every attraction being an E-ticket and every land being properly themed. This has nothing to do with the scale of the addition, and everything to do with the execution of it. I'm not sure what you mean by MK lands failing to live up to your mythical E-Level Land standards. For the most part, the existing lands throughout WDW are pretty consistent in execution; the detailing of Adventureland, the UK pavilion, and Sunset Blvd are all about the same level.

For attractions, it's good to have a variety of types in order to fill out the parkgoing experience. It's similar to a restaurant menu, where there are all types of dishes of varying size and price, but the execution of the dishes is expected to be uniform across the board. Just because something isn't the headliner doesn't mean that it should be exempted from quality standards.

To prove that the quality of a themed area isn't directly linked to the attractions in it, let's consider the Morocco pavilion at Epcot. It has no attractions, but a top-notch attention to detail. It's a pleasant place to explore and absorb details, wandering through hidden passages with surprises around every corner. People seem to genuinely enjoy discovering what's there, and I often see groups lingering in quiet corners. Are there occasional visual intrusions poking up above the horizon? Sure, but they're no more distracting than the swarms of tourists or Disney-branded trash cans.

Now consider the Backlot area of Walt Disney Studios Parc. It contains a headliner stunt show, D/E-ticket rollercoaster, and a C/D-ticket walkthrough show, but almost no theming to speak of. The main walkway is flat asphalt with plain warehouse-type buildings on either side; the only decorations are the oversized marquees that attempt to hide the industrial structures. It's such an unpleasant environment that it's difficult to find photos online that show the whole area; nobody lingers here any longer than necessary. There are no real visual intrusions, because there's no attempt to define what does and doesn't belong in this environment

Which of these has headliner attractions? Which of these is a pleasant environment that's worth the price of admission? Just because attractions aren't headliners doesn't mean that the themed environment doesn't need to be up to par

All the things you pointed out is getting a good go-of in TSL. Everywhere you look you'll see giant toys and games. Giant yard and fence. Giant coaster built by a young boy. This fits your criteria of properly themed.

The ones I've been arguing against add specific criteria: They say everything has to be perfectly scaled. Is that what Morocco does? Or does it use sliding scales for forced perspective?

They say you shouldn't be able to see out of the land (the top of Slinky issue). And yet, when you're in Morocco, aren't there places you can see out of it and into Future World?

They say that a 'bare' coaster is just so cheap that it just completely ruins everything. I don't have a Morocco parallel to this, but, the coaster is themed to a child's playset coaster. But that's not good enough.

TSL is not properly themed in their opinion because of these things.

It is properly themed in my opinion. Certainly not at the level of Potterlands or Pandora or SWL, but perfectly acceptable. But what I just said here is their jumping off point for saying that it's not good enough unless it hits the highest level in all criteria and anything less is pure carp and unacceptable. So, yes, they are making the point that it fails compared to perfection... which everything does because nothing is perfect.