Rumor Tower of Terror to gain new theme?

cjkeating

cjkeating

Well-Known Member
mickEblu said:
Looks like the Paris version of TOT won’t be getting a Marvel overlay at all but will be losing the TZ theme. What does this mean for TOT at DHS?

https://*****.com/2018/02/tower-of-terror-renovation-mission-breakout/
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This news actually came from ED92 a DLP fan Twitter account (the other site just stole their news).

ED92 are typically the source of DLP rumour and are quite accurate except for when - like at WDW - things change, for them to be reporting this does give credit to the previous rumour that TOT at DLP is staying.
 
D

DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
Tom Morrow said:
The back wall with the floating window is now clearly a screen when it used to not be an obvious screen. .
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This particular issue is not due to lack of maintenance, it is a result of switching to a digital projector years ago. Normal digital projectors do not have the contrast necessary to get the "true black" necessary to hide the fact that it is a screen. Only a high-end laser projector could do it.

Since I can't argue that the cost of a high-end digital projector would be worth it for this brief effect, honestly the best solution would be to go back to using film projection for that effect.
 
marni1971

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
DisneyCane said:
This particular issue is not due to lack of maintenance, it is a result of switching to a digital projector years ago. Normal digital projectors do not have the contrast necessary to get the "true black" necessary to hide the fact that it is a screen. Only a high-end laser projector could do it.

Since I can't argue that the cost of a high-end digital projector would be worth it for this brief effect, honestly the best solution would be to go back to using film projection for that effect.
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Tweaking from factory settings would be a start. Much like they finally tweaked the library flatscreens when they were found to have SQ issues.
 
C

celluloid

Well-Known Member
marni1971 said:
Tweaking from factory settings would be a start. Much like they finally tweaked the library flatscreens when they were found to have SQ issues.
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Yeah. That is the equivilant to me of my pet peeve with anti motion blur settings that stores and default settings often have for HD tv. I want the picture and sound crisp, but I do not want the creative intent gone when every single thing in shot is in focus and has the soap opera effect. It is annoying to me.
 
D

DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
marni1971 said:
Tweaking from factory settings would be a start. Much like they finally tweaked the library flatscreens when they were found to have SQ issues.
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It couldn't hurt to try. However, I just don't think any digital projector exists, other than the very high end (IMAX, Dolby Cinema) laser projectors, that are capable of getting a deep enough black level while having the "window" be bright enough. Even standard laser illuminated projectors can't do it. The very expensive, high end projectors utilize two imaging chips in the light path for each primary color. The first chip "dims" the source light in dark areas of the frame and then passes the resultant light along to the high resolution chip that creates the actual image.

The effect could also be accomplished with a high resolution direct view LED display like a "jumbotron" or video billboard. The off pixels in those are completely turned off. This method would require that area of the back wall to be video all of the time, including when the corridor is lit up. Maybe a high end OLED TV would work if they can do a real good anti-reflective coating on the screen to prevent reflections from other effects going on.

I'm not sure how it is done currently. Is it a real wall and then the projection is on a scrim or something when the corridor darkens?
 
Magenta Panther

Magenta Panther

Well-Known Member
marni1971 said:
Tweaking from factory settings would be a start. Much like they finally tweaked the library flatscreens when they were found to have SQ issues.
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I cannot believe TDO sometimes. They turn off effects or don't fix them, and fiddle with good effects and make them worse.

To TDO - again, how do you sleep at night? You crap up effects in one of the best attractions ever built, and you're like "Hur hur, not as effective, oh well, park guests won't notice." YES WE DO. That hallway effect astounded me when I first saw it. I can't believe your carelessness and incompetence has apparently messed it up. It's getting to the point that I don't even want to ride the thing next time I'm in WDW - if I ever visit there again, I'm so disgusted with the way it's being run - because I don't want to see it so degraded.

First you mess up the Haunted Mansion, and now Tower of Terror. Congratulations!
 
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Tom Morrow

Tom Morrow

Well-Known Member
DisneyCane said:
It couldn't hurt to try. However, I just don't think any digital projector exists, other than the very high end (IMAX, Dolby Cinema) laser projectors, that are capable of getting a deep enough black level while having the "window" be bright enough. Even standard laser illuminated projectors can't do it. The very expensive, high end projectors utilize two imaging chips in the light path for each primary color. The first chip "dims" the source light in dark areas of the frame and then passes the resultant light along to the high resolution chip that creates the actual image.

The effect could also be accomplished with a high resolution direct view LED display like a "jumbotron" or video billboard. The off pixels in those are completely turned off. This method would require that area of the back wall to be video all of the time, including when the corridor is lit up. Maybe a high end OLED TV would work if they can do a real good anti-reflective coating on the screen to prevent reflections from other effects going on.

I'm not sure how it is done currently. Is it a real wall and then the projection is on a scrim or something when the corridor darkens?
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The entire back wall is a screen with the wall animation projected onto it, and the projector being on the opposite side of the guest view. To make it more believable, the wall image changes colors to match the rest of the show lighting and effects. Since the corridor is actually a forced-perspective stage, the screen/wall is only about four feet high. If the projector for this effect is off, the entire back wall is just a black rectangle the entire time.
 
marni1971

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
Tom Morrow said:
The entire back wall is a screen with the wall animation projected onto it, and the projector being on the opposite side of the guest view. To make it more believable, the wall image changes colors to match the rest of the show lighting and effects. Since the corridor is actually a forced-perspective stage, the screen/wall is only about four feet high. If the projector for this effect is off, the entire back wall is just a black rectangle the entire time.
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Well, dark gray. I had to report it last year. The poor CM at unload quietly said "not again....…"
 
Kram Sacul

Kram Sacul

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
Yes
Tom Morrow said:
The entire back wall is a screen with the wall animation projected onto it, and the projector being on the opposite side of the guest view. To make it more believable, the wall image changes colors to match the rest of the show lighting and effects. Since the corridor is actually a forced-perspective stage, the screen/wall is only about four feet high. If the projector for this effect is off, the entire back wall is just a black rectangle the entire time.
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The effect looks a lot like garbage mattes you used to see on video transfers that were too bright.

It's kind of funny that all 4 hallway scenes have the same problem. You would think that one of the projectors would've died by now and been replaced.
 
marni1971

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
Mike2K said:
Echo has a new, longer drop profile. I haven’t ridden enough yet to notice if there’s more than one new drop profile, but the bellhops say it’s back to multiple random drop profiles. New effects in the drop shaft as well!
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No, still stuck on profile four.
 
Animaniac93-98

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
On Wednesday ToT was running at half-capacity and the Library lights were still on during the pre-show video (just dimmed), has either been happening a lot recently?
 
Tom Morrow

Tom Morrow

Well-Known Member
Animaniac93-98 said:
On Wednesday ToT was running at half-capacity and the Library lights were still on during the pre-show video (just dimmed), has either been happening a lot recently?
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The library lighting always came back on during the video, but it used to be much dimmer. This was also tweaked within the last few years, I’m assuming for “safety.” Same reason the boiler room is now kind of brightly lit.
marni1971 said:
They’re all recent projectors. I want to say within the last eight years.
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Yeah they are probably from 2010 or 2011 ish. What’s odd to me is there are now modern projectors that use LED technology that can display true black which is required for the effect to br believable. They are expensive, but it’s pocket change for Disney. Why not make sure one of your biggest draw attractions looks as good as it can?
 
D

DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
Tom Morrow said:
The library lighting always came back on during the video, but it used to be much dimmer. This was also tweaked within the last few years, I’m assuming for “safety.” Same reason the boiler room is now kind of brightly lit.

Yeah they are probably from 2010 or 2011 ish. What’s odd to me is there are now modern projectors that use LED technology that can display true black which is required for the effect to br believable. They are expensive, but it’s pocket change for Disney. Why not make sure one of your biggest draw attractions looks as good as it can?
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No LED projector can get the black to be as black as needed for this effect to work properly. It needs to be extremely deep black. The issue is the imaging chips are just not capable of cutting out enough light (no matter if they are LCD based or DLP based). Laser illumination helps because it is easier to control the light within the light engine. Still, for a laser projector to truly get "black black" it has to be an expensive design where there is an imaging chip to "pre-dim" parts of the frame before passing the remaining light to the chip that creates the image.

The only non-film based ways to get the black like it used to be would either be to use extremely expensive, high-end laser based projectors or a very high pixel density direct LED display (like an outdoor video board) or a high end OLED TV that has an anti-reflective film of some type on the screen. For the best mix of economics and effect, I'd think a very large, high end OLED TV would be the way to go if they can prevent the screen from reflecting the other effects.
 
180º

180º

Well-Known Member
Tom Morrow said:
Yeah they are probably from 2010 or 2011 ish. What’s odd to me is there are now modern projectors that use LED technology that can display true black which is required for the effect to br believable. They are expensive, but it’s pocket change for Disney. Why not make sure one of your biggest draw attractions looks as good as it can?
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The best example of this difference may be in Space Mountain in California. Ghost Galaxy introduced projections throughout the ride, and those 2009 projectors had the same "halo" effect as the ToT window we're talking about, ruining the illusion. Then, in 2015 with Hyperspace Mountain, the projectors were upgraded and improvement was drastic. The projections now blend seamlessly into pitch darkness.
 

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