Tortuga just might be on its way!

[JCorduroy]

I have thus far refrained from weighing in on this subject, but this seems like the appropriate moment. Consider how well (read, "poorly") At World's End is doing at the box office, and then wonder how foolish and short-sighted it would be if Disney scrapped Adventureland in favor of the current pirate fad. And that's exactly what it is--a fad that is already fading, judging from the poor word of mouth for the third film (emanating even from my children), which explains its plummeting box office rankings.

While the Indiana Jones attraction at Disneyland has its place in Adventureland, I am glad that no one was foolish enough to convert the entire area into "Indyland," or Tomorrowland into "Star Wars World." Investing so much money and theming into a passing fancy would rob any WDW area of the timelessness necessarty to stand up to scrutiny over time and, I think, would be a tremendous mistake.

One pirate restaurant would be fine, I suppose. But please let it stop there and leave Adventureland alone. Oh, and while they're (not) at it, perhaps they could begin to get the pirate merchadise off of every sales cart and shop shelf throughout the entire resort.

Unless I'm missing something, I don't think this whole Pirates thing is a fad. I just checked out the box office take on box office mojo, and POTC:AWE looks to be doing quite well with it's 15 days of release, already over 640 million between foreign ($406M) and domestic ($238M) release. Considering that POTCMC did $423M and $642M in it's 22 weeks of release, I see At World's End coming in quite close to those numbers.

 

[happymom52003]

While the Disney pirate movies have caused an increased popularity in pirates over the last few years, I do not agree that it is just a fad. Little boys (and big boys, for that matter) have always loved pirates. My son has never seen the pirate movies because he is too young, and he is obsessed with pirates. I think adding a couple of more pirate themed attractions to adventure land would be wonderful (especially the pirate character meal...I would be happy if this came true, even if no other pirate things were added to AL), as long as the change is not too dramatic. There is such a strong emphasis on the princess theme at Disney. I think it would be great for boys to have something similar.

 

[happymom52003]

Unless I'm missing something, I don't think this whole Pirates thing is a fad. I just checked out the box office take on box office mojo, and POTC:AWE looks to be doing quite well with it's 15 days of release, already over 640 million between foreign ($406M) and domestic ($238M) release. Considering that POTCMC did $423M and $642M in it's 22 weeks of release, I see At World's End coming in quite close to those numbers.

I have to admit it was my least favorite of the three, but that being said we went to see it last night (it took us this long to get a babysitter!) and ALL of the showings past 5:00 were already sold out. Oceans 13, which was opening, did not even have all of their shows sold out!

 

[bassman]

awesome they have so got to build this,how awesome would it be to have a drink in the tavern from the film.
im all for it

 

[Shaman]

I have to admit it was my least favorite of the three, but that being said we went to see it last night (it took us this long to get a babysitter!) and ALL of the showings past 5:00 were already sold out. Oceans 13, which was opening, did not even have all of their shows sold out!

I saw it yesterday around midday and the theater was packed...probably sold out. The numbers for this film will be off because it is longer than DMC.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong...but there is space to create a mini-land around PotC and still keep the overall Adventureland concept intact. So...

 

[DisneyDellsDude]

awesome they have so got to build this,how awesome would it be to have a drink in the tavern from the film.
im all for it

The only problem is that the MK has been a no drink zone for...forever!
Anyone think they'd change that?

 

[bassman]

The only problem is that the MK has been a no drink zone for...forever!
Anyone think they'd change that?

hmm yeah it is,but i dont realli see it as a problem.

they way im looking at it is that u go into the tortuga tavern or whatever its going to be called, and its just the same as say pecos bill's.
they could have a piratey style band and music and stuff and just create a realli cool atmosphere.

 

[askmike1]

Consider how well (read, "poorly") At World's End is doing at the box office, and then wonder how foolish and short-sighted it would be if Disney scrapped Adventureland in favor of the current pirate fad.

Pirates of the Caribbean is a fad? Well if it, it's been so for the past 40 years. Pirates has been one of the most popular attractions at both stateside parks since it opened. And by the way, after just THREE weeks in release, AWE has already grossed $746.6 million worldwide and is tracking ahead of DMC in most territories. Still consider it doing poorly?

 

[MonoManBlue]

HA, no way anyone could consider POTC a fad........seriously, thats got to be some sort of an inside joke or something.

 

[fngoofy]

I have thus far refrained from weighing in on this subject, but this seems like the appropriate moment. Consider how well (read, "poorly") At World's End is doing at the box office, .

Well, they are at 253M today, and Black Pearl did 305M total, so they are about 2 weeks away from topping Pearl. Your logic doesn't hold up.

 

[docandsix]

Nice try...

That's four years after Black Pearl, failing to account for inflation, the production/marketing budget (which more than doubled from the first film to the third), the number of theaters and screens showing the two films, etc. Looking at the way World's End is falling off from week to week, and given the competition coming up this summer, it may not even make that magical $305 million. Not to mention that it won't come close to smelling Dead Man's Chest's $423 million.

But nice try, anyway. World's End stunk, and the fad is dying--thankfully, because the sequels have ruined the original's shining precedent, just as in the Matrix trilogy, the Indiana Jones trilogy, the Back to the Future trilogy, the Shrek trilogy...

 

[ToTBellHop]

That's four years after Black Pearl, failing to account for inflation, the production/marketing budget (which more than doubled from the first film to the third), the number of theaters and screens showing the two films, etc. Looking at the way World's End is falling off from week to week, and given the competition coming up this summer, it may not even make that magical $305 million. Not to mention that it won't come close to smelling Dead Man's Chest's $423 million.

But nice try, anyway. World's End stunk, and the fad is dying--thankfully, because the sequels have ruined the original's shining precedent, just as in the Matrix trilogy, the Indiana Jones trilogy, the Back to the Future trilogy, the Shrek trilogy...

hahaha....you are living in Lala land. At World's End will likely make $1 billion (easily if you include DVD sales) worldwide. Sounds like you disliked the film so much (which is your prerogative) that you are trying to will it to fail. Unfortunately, it is doing just fine with or without your support.

 

[SirGoofy]

But nice try, anyway. World's End stunk, and the fad is dying--thankfully, because the sequels have ruined the original's shining precedent, just as in the Matrix trilogy, the Indiana Jones trilogy, the Back to the Future trilogy, the Shrek trilogy...

I'll agree with that list if you take Indy outta there, because Last Crusade is just as good, if not better than the first, and Temple of Doom is helluva lot of fun. And in your first post you called Star Wars a "fad." Really? That's pretty ridiculous. AWE did not stink. Was it as good as the first? No, but it was certainly better than the second. As for it not reaching DMC number's I think people were afraid after seeing Spiderman 3, which was a huge let down.

 

[Nicole220]

Back on topic....All these ideas sound really neat! Can't wait to see how it turns out if it gets the green light.

I want one in DL! We could really use some quality restaurants!

 

[askmike1]

That's four years after Black Pearl, failing to account for inflation, the production/marketing budget (which more than doubled from the first film to the third), the number of theaters and screens showing the two films, etc.

1) Inflation (in a span of only a few years) neither helps nor hurts a film. Ticket prices going up does in theory help the box office. But at the same time it hurts them (how many times will you go to the movies at $7 a ticket? How about $10? Plus, gas prices have gone up.... many other factors take into play, both negative & positive with inflation.
2) The two films combined cost about $600m. DMC made $1.07b last year. Roughly 50% of the gross goes to studios, so usually a film needs to double its gross to break even. $1.07b - $1.2b = $130m. That means domestically, practically everything it made after its first 3 days (+previews) is pure profit. That means everything worldwide is pure profit. That means that at the end of the day, Disney will be making a minimum of $385m off the box office run of the movie (which, at least to me, is a nice chunk of cash).
3) Theater count that high really doesn't make all that much of a difference. Except for bragging rights, 4360 theaters compared to 4133 theaters isn't going to make a big difference. When you factor in the 20min+ run time difference, it all evens out in the end.

Looking at the way World's End is falling off from week to week, and given the competition coming up this summer, it may not even make that magical $305 million.

Name me one uber-blockbuster who's name is not Titanic that has increased in a non-holiday week 3?

Needless to say though, internationally, AWE still stands at the number ONE film of all time after 3 weeks (at $493m compared to SM3's $466m & DMC's $214m).

 

[docandsix]

Once more, then I'll stop.

There can be no disputing that World's End has been a disappointment at the domesitc box office. Yes, it will accrue in the neighborhood of $300 million, but it will be lucky to rank third among major releases when the summer has finished, and it will end as a critical and financial stepchild among the trilogy. Ask any executive if Disney was counting on more. If that person says, "no," and you believe him, I have some FastPasses for Mr. Toad's Wild Ride to sell you.

Back on the original topic, however, I would ask how many of the posters would be interested in seeing Fantasyland converted to Fairyland. This really is the issue at hand, and not my exhaustion with the the POTC films and my dislike of At World's End.

No one is arguing that the POTC attraction was, is, and always will be incredibly popular. In fact, when I discuss with my children the current "Top Seven" list on the resort television station, I invariably assert that POTC is the one, single attraction that I would take a foreign visitor to see if that person could experience only one element of WDW. Having said that, I strongly believe that a major part of the attraction's appeal is its novelty, its classically unique nature. There is little else like it, in theme or execution, anywhere else on the planet. Is coat-tailing on its success going to double its magic or dilute it?

Do we really think that saturating Adventureland to the point of excess with Johnny Depp look-alikes is the way in which to compete with Universal's Harry Potter project or to keep WDW moving forward with creative vision? To me, the idea stinks of a money-first, short-sighted attempt to capitalize on what I will continue to maintain is a temporary cinematic fad losing momentum rapidly, until I am proven otherwise.

 

[PLTram]

Do we really think that saturating Adventureland to the point of excess with Johnny Depp look-alikes is the way in which to compete with Universal's Harry Potter project or to keep WDW moving forward with creative vision? To me, the idea stinks of a money-first, short-sighted attempt to capitalize on what I will continue to maintain is a temporary cinematic fad losing momentum rapidly, until I am proven otherwise.

Let me be the first to back you up. I totally agree that turning half of Adventureland in POTCland is a short-sighted plan most likely motivated by turning a quick profit, rather than focusing on the long term interest or appeal for the park in general.

Now that the POTC movies are most likely finished, it is highly unlikely that people in general (i.e. not just Disney park patrons) will be obsessing over Pirates in 3, 5 or 10 years from now. I don't think the Pirate movies come anywhere near to acheiving the cult following of the Star Wars movies(even though they may be close in box office figures), and I think it's safe to say that only die hard fan boys really care to obsess over Star Wars at this point in time.

 

[TP2000]

Seeing as how the sketchy 8 minute long WDW version of Pirates of the Caribbean is easily the weakest of the four different versions of that attraction around the world ..... I think it would be a good idea to plus up the pirate theme in and around WDW's Adventureland any way they can. The Tortuga restaurant sounds fun.

But let's also remember that apparently this Tortuga restaurant concept died an unseen death over the winter. This rumor sprang forth back in January, just a few weeks before Disneyland closed Tom Sawyer Island to remake it into Pirate's Lair. It seemed plausible that Disney would be doing the Pirate's Lair thing for Disneyland, and would do the Tortuga Restaurant thing instead out at WDW.

But that didn't happen. Disneyland got Pirate's Lair with new pirate playgrounds, animatronics and tech in the caves http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUmUqynteL8 , and a Jack Sparrow Stunt Show on the river stage. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9_TqrQsymk And WDW didn't do a thing with a Tortuga Restaurant. I think the window of opportunity to get in on the summertime pirates craze already closed for WDW. :wave:

 

[happymom52003]

I really do not think that most people on these boards are in favor of "saturating" AL with pirates. Several posters have noted that they would not mind some more pirate themed attractions as long as AL is not changed dramatically. Adding a pirate themed character meal would be a smart move, and it would be in a space that really is not even being used right now. Its not like people are talking about turning the Jungle Cruise into the Pirate Cruise or changing the Tiki into The Enchanted Pirate Room. And as far as the Magic Carpet Ride, you can ride the exact same thing in Fantasy Land (Dumbo), so I really do not think alot of people would mind seeing something different in that spot.
And I really think that the character of Jack Sparrow is so unique and well loved that he has a good chance of becoming a classic Disney character that can withstand the test of time. A "fad" character would be someone like Roger Rabbit....I still laugh everytime my kids watch their old Disney Sing Along video and Roger is dancing with the classic Disney characters! My kids have no idea who he is!

 

[docandsix]

Jim Hill is usually wrong, but...

the first place I heard the idea of the Tortuga restaurant floated was in one of his articles, the gist of which was that some Imagineers' proposed response to the "Wizarding World of Harry Potter" was, in fact, to gut all of Adventureland and to convert its theme to one honoring the POTC film franchise, including major alterations of The Enchanted Tiki Room Under New Management (who cares, except, again, for the question of oversaturation) and the Jungle Cruise (tragic).

So maybe I'm overreacting to the idea of the restaurant in isolation, but I guess I'm rather sensitive to this (horrible) plan for Adventureland as a whole, inferring that one goes with the other, and vice versa.