Ton Newton - Out

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Josh is Iger Lite (with tighter pants). He's been loyal to the Weatherman since day one, he'd have to screw up big time.

Better be some money coming or neither will get a say in it. Please

This thread has been remarkably civil all things considered.

…time

 

[monothingie]

Better be some money coming or neither will get a say in it. Please

You know Bob is never going to leave on a down note because his ego won't let him. I'll bet you a large pink Sombrero from the Mexican pavilion at Epcot that he's still around past his "2 year" second chance.

 

[Indy_UK]

I remember during 2018 when Galaxy’s Edge was being built on both Coasts and at the time Disneyland Paris’ Catherine Powell was promoted to be Parks President for the western parks.

Then within a year later they ousted her for the lukewarm reception of the lands. Something that she probably had next to no participation in by the time she was promoted.

Another snake move by Iger…

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The characters have never been the problem. They have a problem with poor writing and low quality uninspiring stories that cost a ton to make.

My one main point around here…

…besides FIRE BOB IGER

 

[Stupido]

Nobody has a problem with Nick fury or falcon…just saying

Which is interesting because before Samuel, Nick Fury had always been a white dude. They've even gone as far as to updating the comics version to look like SLJ since the movies took off. Interesting how no one had an issue with that race bend.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Which is interesting because before Samuel, Nick Fury had always been a white dude. They've even gone as far as to updating the comics version to look like SLJ since the movies took off. Interesting how no one had an issue with that race bend.

Because nobody reads comic books. They had more or less a blank slate.

And Jackson Carries 40 years of bad Hollywood gravitas…

If Denzel Washington has played Nick fury everyone would have loved him too…

…but Jeff goldblum wouldn’t be a fan fav

 

[threvester]

Nobody has a problem with Nick fury or falcon…just saying

Falcon has been a black character since day one

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

You know Bob is never going to leave on a down note because his ego won't let him. I'll bet you a large pink Sombrero from the Mexican pavilion at Epcot that he's still around past his "2 year" second chance.

Why would I take that bet? Go back to 11/20 and it said that right then. Didn’t buy that crap for a second. Nope. Not for a second

I’m saying Bob is more vulnerable to “real change” than he’d ever believe. What good is he to Wall Street? They’re not making any money off him.

Time for the dumpster

 

[erasure fan1]

I don't understand why instead of making new characters that fit whatever DEI they are going for in movies they take an already established character and redo them to fit their current need to be inclusive . Is it is so hard to create a new character?. Is the lack of creativity that bad these days?

It's harder to create a new character for starters. They also like that the established whatever, already has a built-in audience. And yes, there is definitely a lack of creativity across the entire industry. Not just Disney. New, equals risk, and that's a huge turn off for a company like Disney. An established ip/character, even if changed and might get some backlash, is still a safer bet than creating something new.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Falcon has been a black character since day one

Correct

I wasn’t commenting on “race swapping”

I’m saying when characters are well written and played EVERYONE likes them. Race is irrelevant to people with a brain

 

[DCBaker]

Zenia Mucha should be back in the next 30 days or so I imagine if this continues.

Zenia has apparently just signed on as the new Chief Brand and Communications Officer at TikTok.

 

[Trauma]

Now don’t you start…behave

True thats why I have stayed out this thread.

I think it’s sucks someone lost their job.

I have no idea at the end of the day what decisions good or bad she was responsible for, so I won’t comment on if I think this was a good move.

 

[Casper Gutman]

No…and stop it now.

It failed because the audience didn’t want a little mermaid live action remake.

Several reasons…but in that end that’s Occam’s razor on this one

I don’t want live action remakes of animated films. That’s NOT what’s being argued.

 

[monothingie]

Not going to debate the box office performance, but you're attributing the failure to the race of the lead character (which has literally no impact on the story)? I could see that argument if it was rooted in the lackluster performance in certain Asian markets with known prejudice against Black populations. 100%. But I would argue that there was value in the resonance and affinity the film built with Black audiences domestically and the impact that has on the brand in the long run.

1. If you're looking at China, the net take from the box-office gross there is less than 15%. So for every dollar earned, Disney nets $.15 at best. As opposed to domestically were it's better than 50%. So the argument that China crashed this thing doesn't hold up, because the only way anything foreign makes money in the Chinese market is when it is on a Spiderman NWH level which this was not.

2. TLM leads have been cast as different races and ethnicities before, including several adaptations of a "black" Ariel for both theatrical and television. Some of those adaptations went on to be incredibly popular.

3. The failure for TLM lay in poor marketing and the low quality of the production (CGI, etc). There were statements from the creators, producers, and actors which may have been interpreted as exclusionary for certain groups because of the heavy focus on the identity of the lead over the entirety of the overall production.

 

[el_super]

I don’t want live action remakes of animated films. That’s NOT what’s being argued.

I don't mind them really, as long as they haven't stopped developing new animated films (which of course they have).

It reminds me of watching/listening to different actors/companies perform standard Broadway shows. You can appreciate what different actors / directors / teams bring into a performance. Admittedly it's a more academic way of enjoying remakes, so probably not for everyone.

Taking an established character and changing them is a controversial move that’s likely to hurt the bottom line no matter who it is.

I think for some, yes. But part of the push to remake some of these movies, were to introduce them to new audiences that hadn't seen the animated features, and/or had no desire to see the originals because the older style of 2D animation looks archaic and dated. Those people who hadn't seen the original aren't going to understand the controversy... except for maybe one aspect of it.

 

[el_super]

3. The failure for TLM lay in...

Wait why are we considering this movie a failure?

 

[monothingie]

Wait why are we considering this movie a failure?

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TLM cost $200-250 Million to make. Rule of thumb is that for a movie to be profitable it has to make 2.5X that to be profitable, which accounts for the theater cut and marketing costs. Splitting the difference and going with $225M, that means at least $560M worldwide in order to be a a success.

As of last weekend it's sitting at $440M world wide with limited time left in theaters. So it is likely the movie will loose around $100M.

Failure.

 

[GhostHost1000]

Wait why are we considering this movie a failure?

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Little Mermaid - under the most generous of projections, needs to gross approximately $560 million at the worldwide box office, according to Hollywood insiders, to reach its break-even threshold

 

[GhostHost1000]

Exactly. I’ll take it a step further in regards to TLM. one of the main reason that these live action remakes have generally done decent at the box office is because of a strong love and nostalgia related to the original animated films. People go because they remind them of the films they already love. The more you deviate from that source material, the more the potential for engagement to diminish and potential customers to be turned off.

So with TLM I think there was a portion of potential ticket buyers who saw the trailers and felt “this isn’t my The Little Mermaid” and just didn’t care to see it. Not just Ariel but also the designs of the animal characters as well. And it’s not really racism as much as a lack of continuity (ie I think making Ariel a blond white girl or had her hair be short or other changes to the appearance would have also had a negative effect). When you deal in nostalgia, it’s a narrow road to stay on.

Personally I think it would have been a better option to just make a movie featuring Halle as a Mermaid but a completely different story, detached from TLM (or have it me TLM adjacent like she’s a cousin or grand daughter or something) rather than have her be Ariel.

100%

 

[el_super]

So it is likely the movie will loose around $100M.

Failure.

So a movie that has generally good reviews, and is sitting at #5 on the top box office for the year can't make back it's production budget?

To me that speaks far more toward the state of the box office business than it does any sort of creative failure of fault of the picture itself.

If it starts driving more traffic on Disney+, it can make up that $100M easily over the course of 5 or 10 years.