Tomorrowland Overhaul Speculation

Disney Irish

Premium Member
Mostly fans like us here like to toss it around as a potential expansion pad. Most recently I think Shelly Valadolid mentioned as it as an expansion area by itself. But then again she says a lot of crazy things.

Not to say you could couldn’t fit a nice “little” restaurant in that area. Hopefully utilizing the pond in some way.
Got it, so not real rumors.

I'd wonder if they'd consider a Frozen theme BOG style restaurant instead of the ride, and use the Motorboat area for that. I believe it'd be big enough for that plus a little M&G area, and include the pond area but freeze it.
 

SuddenStorm

Well-Known Member
Mostly fans like us here like to toss it around as a potential expansion pad. Most recently I think Shelly Valadolid mentioned as it as an expansion area by itself. But then again she says a lot of crazy things.

Not to say you could couldn’t fit a nice “little” restaurant in that area. Hopefully utilizing the pond in some way.

I'm 99% sure Shelly's sources are Jim Hill's podcast, Reddit, and the WDWMAGIC Disneyland forums.
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
Got it, so not real rumors.

I'd wonder if they'd consider a Frozen theme BOG style restaurant instead of the ride, and use the Motorboat area for that. I believe it'd be big enough for that plus a little M&G area, and include the pond area but freeze it.

Haha no I don’t think so but my original post wasn't addressing credible rumors, it was addressed to anyone who throws it out as an expansion pad in and of itself for a 21st century attraction.

Yeah that’s what I’d want to see there. Hopefully something quaint that’s fits the Fantasyland scale. The Frozen theme is fine so long as it’s not too cartoony and more like a Frozen version of the Village Haus. I think it would be great if they could keep part of the lagoon there.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Right? It's tiny. Reminds me of when so many people wanted a dark ride in the old Fantasyland Skyway station.

To be fair to this old and rather hokey C Ticket attraction, the Motorboat Cruise had a much longer route during its 1959-1995 run than can be seen in today's aerials and overviews. Most of the lagoon was paved over and removed during the big 1999-2000 makeover of Autopia.

The Motorboat Cruise had two long looping tracks that sent all boats to the edge of the current Submarine Lagoon, as seen in this photo from 1959 before the trees grew in and obscured most of it from aerial photography. There were two different tracks boarded from either side of the dock, as noted by the red and green loops.

397633


Most of that area is paved over and/or dry riverbed now. The Motorboat Cruise actually took up a decent chunk of real estate.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
I’m as white as white gets...

I don't want to start an argument, but I'm actually the whitest person here. I'm WASPier than the Queen of England, who has a bit too much Bavarian ancestry for my taste. I have some nice cashmere sweaters, but I've never actually worn them because I just tie them over my broad shoulders. Also, I keep my toaster in the cupboard, it never sits out on the counter longer than it takes to make some toast. White toast. 🧐

I’ve said this before, but I do not trust the current team to properly re-do Tomorrowland. I’d rather it stay as it is.

Valid point. It's times like these when I wish Al Lutz was still with us. He would let us in on what's happening in TDA and Glendale on stuff like this!
 

Californian Elitist

Well-Known Member
I don't want to start an argument, but I'm actually the whitest person here. I'm WASPier than the Queen of England, who has a bit too much Bavarian ancestry for my taste. I have some nice cashmere sweaters, but I've never actually worn them because I just tie them over my broad shoulders. Also, I keep my toaster in the cupboard, it never sits out on the counter longer than it takes to make some toast. White toast. 🧐

But TP, you’ve missed the point, which is WHITE TRASH AT DISNEYLAND.

🥴🤦🏾‍♀️
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
I'm a little more married to Space Mountain and Star Tours than you are, but I have to agree overall. The whole area needs a complete refresh. No more breathing in fumes while sitting in traffic, that's for the drive to the park. No more giant building for some corporate showrooms. No more atmosphere of a poorly designed strip mall with a coat of paint.

Well, okay, maybe Space Mountain can stay. I was just worked up over how tacky and crappy Tomorrowland is now. But Space Mountain can stay only if they rip out that useless Michael Jackson 3D theater from the 1980's and re-install the Space Stage and have the Kids of the Kingdom for matinee shows and a pop music cover band at night.

space_mountain_stage.jpg


But Star Tours just needs to go. It's pointless with Star Wars Land, as underwhelming as Millennium Falcon: Target Run is. They should just retheme it to something else, some Marvel thing or a science ride where you are shrunken down for a trip through the human body or something like that. But then the northern flanks of Tomorrowland just need to be bulldozed and ripped out so they can start over for audiences that will take them into the mid 21st century.

Bulldoze the Bell System/Buzz Lightyear building. Bulldoze Tomorrowland Terrace. Bulldoze GE's Carousel of Progress/Launch Bay building. Rip out Autopia and the Submarines. Re-route the Monorail around whatever replaces all of this.

Just bulldoze all of it from 1955 to 2007 and start over. It's embarrassing that the land themed to "Tomorrow!" is the most backward looking and hokiest land of them all. You would think Bob Chapek and the men in charge of this product would be embarrassed by this, but they are obviously too stupid to know any better. It's a HUGE chunk of the park that could be put to much better use, and take Disneyland from the 2020's towards it's 100th anniversary a few decades from now.

ufrozl5apypz.jpg
 
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Brenthodge

Well-Known Member
I’m as white as white gets, and I’m politically conservative, so that definitely isn’t where I was coming from. I’m sure acknowledging that fact will get me even more fans. 😊

Anyway, I want to apologize for that post!! Really hard stressful day at work and got home late and went way way over the line on that. Sincerely sorry to anyone that I offended.

I had a chance to visit the park last week quickly on a business trip and was just surprised at the number of face tattoos and girls butts hanging out of shorts, teenagers groping and so on....,
It just came off as a strange and not exactly family friendly. I’m sure I just hit it on a bad day.

On one last note, other than the castle being larger than the Matterhorn if they made it bigger, why would simply keeping it small = good design?

Doesn’t the castle barely being taller than the main street shops break design rules of realism as well?

I’m not advocating changes but after visiting Tokyo and WDW numerous times, how small the castle looks walking down Main Street is jarring now. I’m a huge fan of Walt. Up there with Washington, Adams and Patrick Henry as my favorite all time Americans.
But I’m not sure if he was alive and surveying the Disney landscape, he himself wouldn’t jump on things like castle enhancements.
Maybe I’m wrong.
I got what you were saying. You weren’t advocating personally for any of that, but we’re providing an opinion as to what could happen based on some concrete observations. I didn’t see any of what you said as a personal attack, but more of a broad brushstroke. I think the attacks on you were NOT. Sorry some of the people here feel it is their right to attack with such vigor. (Maybe secretly agreeing with what you said pushed them over the edge)
 

Snow Queen

Well-Known Member
Well, okay, maybe Space Mountain can stay. I was just worked up over how tacky and crappy Tomorrowland is now. But Space Mountain can stay only if they rip out that useless Michael Jackson 3D theater from the 1980's and re-install the Space Stage and have the Kids of the Kingdom for matinee shows and a pop music cover band at night.

space_mountain_stage.jpg
That theater's gotta go. I'm not sure about a stage for that purpose in particular, just not my thing, but anything is better than a movie previews center. It just adds to a general feeling of death in the area. Also in this hypothetical, take the time to redo the whole outdoor Space Mountain queue. Got to be one of the worst outdoor queues in the park, if not the winner of that prestigious title.
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
To be fair to this old and rather hokey C Ticket attraction, the Motorboat Cruise had a much longer route during its 1959-1995 run than can be seen in today's aerials and overviews. Most of the lagoon was paved over and removed during the big 1999-2000 makeover of Autopia.

The Motorboat Cruise had two long looping tracks that sent all boats to the edge of the current Submarine Lagoon, as seen in this photo from 1959 before the trees grew in and obscured most of it from aerial photography. There were two different tracks boarded from either side of the dock, as noted by the red and green loops.

View attachment 397633

Most of that area is paved over and/or dry riverbed now. The Motorboat Cruise actually took up a decent chunk of real estate.


Ahhh ok makes sense now.

Well honestly if a BATB ride comes to DL I think it should go on the Midget Autopia plot. 😉
 

DanielBB8

Well-Known Member
That theater's gotta go. I'm not sure about a stage for that purpose in particular, just not my thing, but anything is better than a movie previews center. It just adds to a general feeling of death in the area. Also in this hypothetical, take the time to redo the whole outdoor Space Mountain queue. Got to be one of the worst outdoor queues in the park, if not the winner of that prestigious title.
I entirely agree. The Theater and former Space Stage must go. It's wasted space, which is especially acute when the Space Mountain exit is congested with guests using the restrooms and people trying to buy their flash photos. Turn the theater into photo and retail space. Allow a new detour further away from the restrooms. The queue line needs to be re-routed into an indoor space. It just gets too hot out there. Enclose everything.
 

mickeyfan5534

Well-Known Member
Well, okay, maybe Space Mountain can stay. I was just worked up over how tacky and crappy Tomorrowland is now. But Space Mountain can stay only if they rip out that useless Michael Jackson 3D theater from the 1980's and re-install the Space Stage and have the Kids of the Kingdom for matinee shows and a pop music cover band at night.

space_mountain_stage.jpg


But Star Tours just needs to go. It's pointless with Star Wars Land, as underwhelming as Millennium Falcon: Target Run is. They should just retheme it to something else, some Marvel thing or a science ride where you are shrunken down for a trip through the human body or something like that. But then the northern flanks of Tomorrowland just need to be bulldozed and ripped out so they can start over for audiences that will take them into the mid 21st century.

Bulldoze the Bell System/Buzz Lightyear building. Bulldoze Tomorrowland Terrace. Bulldoze GE's Carousel of Progress/Launch Bay building. Rip out Autopia and the Submarines. Re-route the Monorail around whatever replaces all of this.

Just bulldoze all of it from 1955 to 2007 and start over. It's embarrassing that the land themed to "Tomorrow!" is the most backward looking and hokiest land of them all. You would think Bob Chapek and the men in charge of this product would be embarrassed by this, but they are obviously too stupid to know any better. It's a HUGE chunk of the park that could be put to much better use, and take Disneyland from the 2020's towards it's 100th anniversary a few decades from now.

ufrozl5apypz.jpg
Honestly, if we're really talking about taking that out, then they need to go the whole nine yards. (Not sure how much of this could actually be done but work with my fannish delusions)
397780

Basically, anything in Tomorrowland not called Space Mountain should be sacrificed and bulldozed with the only survivors of the East side of the park being Space, Matterhorn, and Small World with all of them getting good top to bottom refurbs to the point that they'll have never looked better. I have my own ideas but that's for the Imagineer boards.
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
Honestly, if we're really talking about taking that out, then they need to go the whole nine yards. (Not sure how much of this could actually be done but work with my fannish delusions)
View attachment 397780
Basically, anything in Tomorrowland not called Space Mountain should be sacrificed and bulldozed with the only survivors of the East side of the park being Space, Matterhorn, and Small World with all of them getting good top to bottom refurbs to the point that they'll have never looked better. I have my own ideas but that's for the Imagineer boards.

Considering WDIs current track record I’m not sure how this thought doesn’t scare the hell out of everyone. A TL redo and FL expansion would most likely result in a net loss in charm, cohesion, DL history, attraction count, attraction variance, shade and seating.

Or do you not think this is not the case and have more faith that they re just going to all of sudden be the WED/WDI of old and shock us all?

I’m not worried about TL proper so much as everything from the lagoon/ subs down to the motorboat Cruise area.
 

mickeyfan5534

Well-Known Member
Considering WDIs current track record I’m not sure how this thought doesn’t scare the hell out of everyone. A TL redo and FL expansion would most likely result in a net loss in charm, cohesion, DL history, attraction count, attraction variance, shade and seating.

Or do you not think this is not the case and have more faith that they re just going to all of sudden be the WED/WDI of old and shock us all?

I’m not worried about TL proper so much as everything from the lagoon/ subs down to the motorboat Cruise area.
I like to be an optimist. Maybe the flaws of Galaxy's Edge (of which there are many) will be the wakeup call they need. But a big budget ($1.5 - $2 billion) redo of the East and North sides of Disneyland (MMRR included) headed up by someone with a lot of energy and love for the park and who knows what makes the park special given free reign to bring the park into a new age could be the shot in the arm both the fandom and the industry need.
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
I like to be an optimist. Maybe the flaws of Galaxy's Edge (of which there are many) will be the wakeup call they need. But a big budget ($1.5 - $2 billion) redo of the East and North sides of Disneyland (MMRR included) headed up by someone with a lot of energy and love for the park and who knows what makes the park special given free reign to bring the park into a new age could be the shot in the arm both the fandom and the industry need.

So who is this person? He’s not there right now.
 

mickeyfan5534

Well-Known Member
So who is this person? He’s not there right now.
Good question, one I frankly don't really know the answer to. But Imagineering is also heavily interfered with. Which is why I said they needed free reign. But to say that there aren't people who have a ton of love and affection for Disneyland and can make such an expansion there right now ignores what great things we've seen and will be seeing with expansion in the international parks like Mystic Point and Grizzly Gulch in Hong Kong, the new color scheme of Sleeping Beauty Castle right there in Disneyland, and the large scale expansions in Tokyo. Of course there's still Pixar Pier, which is bad but was later said to be a donkey pull to make Lasseter stop bugging them while they worked on Marvel and Star Wars and make Imagineers prove they can do something cheap (you get what you pay for), and Galaxy's Edge which is flawed and unfinished but also had its budget for planned things that were ready to go and would have fixed a lot of its issues slashed through by the bean counters, but to base modern Imagineering on those two things when other recent projects have shown that there's still quite a bit of creativity in Imagineering is an opinion based on a poor premise.
 

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