To tip or not to tip that is the question?

[kimmychad]

[/b]
I am not familar with this? Please explain. The only further explanation I can think of is that if it were more of a random amount, it would be difficult to budget yourself if you were a server. You could make $100 one night, then $20 the next. You could have a hard time attracting people to the job if this were the case. The other reason could be that it would be difficult for the government to figure out how much you were making. Under the current system, they can assume that you are making at least 12% of your sales and so they can tax the server on that amount without cheating the server.

The other alternative could be for the restaurants themselves to pay a higher wage. However, restaurants already have a hard time making a profit in many cases. Most restaurants fail within a year because many owners are not aware of how difficult it is to run a successful one.

It is a good question, unfortunately I do not have a concrete answer.

BTW, Can I use my refilable mug from my previous trip?

I was referring to the tiered pricing for the candlelight processional based on what restaurant you chose. tipping could (and in my opinion should) be based on the restaurant, not the cost of the meal.
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Tier 1
Seating 1 - $27.99 plus tax & gratuity / (3-9) $12.99 (Lunch)
Seating 2 & 3 -$32.99 plus tax & gratuity / (3-9) $14.99 (Dinner)[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Garden Grill Restaurant - Land Pavilion
Biergarten - Germany Pavilion[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Tier 2
Seating 1 - $36.99 plus tax & gratuity / (3-9) $12.99 (Lunch)
Seating 2 & 3 - $42.99 plus tax & gratuity / (3-9) $14.99 (Dinner)[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]San Angel Inn - Mexico Pavilion
Restaurant Marrakesh - Morocco Pavilion
Nine Dragons - China Pavilion
Rose & Crown - United Kingdom Pavilion[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Tier 3
Seating 1 - $41.99 plus tax & gratuity / (3-9) $12.99 (Lunch)
Seating 2 & 3 - $47.99 plus tax & gratuity / (3-9) $14.99 (Dinner)[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Chefs de France - France Pavilion
Tutto Italia - Italy Pavilion
Le Cellier Steakhouse - Canada Pavilion
Mitsukoshi Teppanyaki Dining Room - Japan Pavilion
Coral Reef - The Living Seas Pavilion[/FONT]


and yes, you can absolutely bring your mug from your previous trip, i sure will.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

No, it's just sad (and obvious) that it's your goal. FYI, though, it takes a lot more than ignorant stammering and poor writing to get to me.
See, I come here to share information and talk about Disney. You come here because you like to get reactions out of people and think you are entertaining.

It's a shame, because once in awhile you have half of a decent point, but like most I generally ignore your blather but this time I actually thought you might allow yourself to be educated.

I won't make that mistake again.

AEfx

Is that why you’ve replied ...............again. When your in a hole stop digging.

Still waiting for an answer to justify your troop spitting analogy, and why tipping makes you feel good about yourself. A bit condescending to the servers in my book.

Your attempts at put downs are strictly minor league, the problem for you is you just havent sussed that, unlike you, Im not trying to do anything other than pass some time, its a fan site for a theme park, its not a matter of life and death. As for my poor education and tendency to blather, I hadn’t realised it was a formal exam, I normally do quite well in them.
Lets just accept that you’ve always had an issue with my posting, that you think I’m an ill educated oaf with a foul mouth and a disruptive influence, you may be correct. And that I suspect you are ,well, a bit James May, Top Gear analogy.

Oh and thanks for more inspiration. :kiss:

 

[AEfx]

Still waiting for an answer to justify your troop spitting analogy, and why tipping makes you feel good about yourself. A bit condescending to the servers in my book.

Oh and thanks for more inspiration. :kiss:

Oh, no, thank you. It's learning how to communicate with people like yourself that helps me understand the plight of the world and makes me a better writer. I'm glad you have those whole relationship between us in your mind, one that I didn't know existed. It's ironic that you are the one who thinks you "get" to me, ROFL, when I'm sitting here having a calm discussion and you just continue to spout more unrelated garbage and trying to "challenge" me like you are a 7-year old on a school yard. /grin As to my replies here, you aren't the only ignorant person on this topic, but rest assured you will never get a reply from me in another thread, ever.

As to my "troop spitting" analogy, nothing to "justify" it. It's an analogy, you either get it, or you don't. Since you don't, I'll explain it in terms you may be able to understand.

Anyone who goes to a restaurant in the United States and does not tip the waitstaff is punishing the waitstaff for a system they did not create. Did they have to become a waitperson? No, but if they wish to/need to become one, the only way to do so is work within the current system of laws that our government has set up in regards to this job class. People who belittle what they do or do not tip are punishing those on the front lines for things they have no control over.

This is the same thing as spitting on the troops for a war you disagree with. It's not the soldier's fault that the war is fought, any more than it is your server's fault that the system in the United States is set up the way it does where by law they are classified as people who make their living via tips. By punishing a server for the way the system is set up, you are spitting at and punishing someone on the front lines who has no control over how this system was set up long before (likely) they were ever born.

I tried not to use big words, but it's a heady concept and I apologize in advance. /wink

AEfx

 

[charatijennings]

I definitely don't want to join in on the argument--but I am curious about the costs of certain meals versus the tip. I've always tipped 20% for the past several years at restaurants. When we go to disney though, we sometimes tip a lesser percentage based on the meal costs. When we go to Cinderella's Castle and spend $100 for 3 people, I'm thinking that the expense includes the characters and not just the meal. Also, if we go to The Crystal Palace, we may not tip 20% of that cost since the Pooh characters are there. If this issue has already been discussed earlier in this thread I apologize.

 

[disneymyway]

Oh we tip and of course you should. If there are 3 or 4 in the room I leave $5 a day.

A litttle O/T - there was a kind of know-it-all guy on another board that swore up and down that mousekeepers were not allowed to accept tips and had to refuse 3 times before they could take it.

I have never had a mousekeeper refuse a tip but this guy was just adamant that it was true.

 

[hokielutz]

As far as why a server at a higher-cost restaurant deserves a higher tip, it has everything to do with service and timing and it makes sense. I know that if I'm eating an expensive meal, I take longer to eat, enjoy my time, and expect a higher level of service (more attention). This means the server has less table turn-over and fewer tables at one time. This is where their higher tip is justified. At a lower-priced restaurant, servers can serve faster, juggle many more tables, and turn tables over faster therefore smaller tips need to add up.

When you go into a restaurant and are unwilling to tip properly, it's just rude. Actually, I think it's worse than rude. You should just do counter service or eat at home.

Agreed.... case in point. My family and I visited very nice french restaurant in northern virginia a week ago. This place serves multiple courses for its meals, and aside from the $75-100 per person cost for just the food, you can expect your dinner to last about 2 hours or more. So slow table turnover would hurt the server if the price of the food were not higher because he fewer total tips than say a server at TGIF or AppleBs. Also, because the server has less tables you would expect he or she to give a higher level of service for your meals. Anyways, this server would expect to make $50 to $150 a table whereas the chain restaurants would make $10 to $20 per tip.

If I go to a high end restaurant, such as Chefs du France or the California Grill, I would expect to pay a decent amount more for gratuity than if I ate at Liberty Tree.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

I tried not to use big words, but it's a heady concept and I apologize in advance. /wink

AEfx

No that’s fine, I’ve got a dictionary and someone to explain the big words.
I’m glad you view serving in the military the same as serving salad. While I can understand your explanation of your analogy, I think it is a poor poor choice, Im not sure how being spat on after being in a combat zones, squares with not receiving a monetary thank you for serving food. After all we used to have a saying “if you cant take a joke you shouldn’t have joined”, I suppose that transfers to table serving too.
As for your constant charge that I am belittling servers isn’t that what your "makes me feel good" comment does, :shrug: As neither you or anyone else has indicated that there is a fixed hourly rate for wait staff, I have to assume that there is a varying pay structure within the industry and that working at the base rate in waiting, if pay is your sole or prime motivator, would to me at least indicate that the job is not as desirable as one at a higher rate. Ie crappy. Wasn’t there many threads about Universals higher pay rates some time back?
However to be serious for a minute, the one issue I cant fathom, and dates back to my earliest posts on the subject years ago, is if, as you again say in this thread, tipping is at the centre of the service sector and so established in the American way of life, why do threads keep appearing on this site? I know you can never agree with me but my whole attitude to posts on tipping is that

If you are as calm as you claim why did you feel you had to resort to insults to deal with someone thats meant to be so intellectually inferior to you, or is condescension your normal demeanour? After all that’s usually a sign of being on the back foot.

As for a reply, thats what you have been saying for years. :drevil::animwink:

Analogy: A form of logical inference or an instance of it, based on the assumption that if two things are known to be alike in some respects, then they must be alike in other respects

So there you have it, sptting on a serviceman is the same as failing to tip a server.

 

[AEfx]

I’m glad you view serving in the military the same as serving salad. While I can understand your explanation of your analogy,

That's why it's an ANALOGY, not an example.

Now who's deflecting? ROFL.

I never said what the troops do versus what a waitperson does are comparable in terms of worth/value/etc., that's just you grasping at straws. However, the concept of spitting on those on the front lines for a system they have no control over is perfectly apt to anyone who knows what an analogy is and is not.

We can keep this little show going as long as you wish in this thread - each and every posting by you just proves the point even more valid that you couldn't come up with a relevant, cohesive, or on-topic thought to save your life. Here you are, making absolutely no point whatsoever on the actual topic, while I am getting to continually reinforce my point regarding the American system of restaurants that hopefully is educating others, even if it goes over your head.

You get your jollies out by thinking you are clever or relevant, and I get to blather on with my boring big words and cohesive thoughts based on an actual belief in something. See, win win!

AEfx

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Thanks, I knew you couldn’t resist.

 

[AEfx]

Thanks, I knew you couldn’t resist.

Resist what, my friend?

As I said, I would never reply to you in ANOTHER thread again, but in this thread, though, as I said I'm perfectly happy to keep replying and to keep the
important issue up there so hopefully other people who are ignorant of how the system works will get a better understanding.

You may be a lost cause, but others aren't, and I'm very glad to bring attention to this topic that so many seem to misunderstand.

AEfx

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Well im glad you agree that we are friends, I’d so hate this one major disagreement on payment of labour to be a stumbling block to future discourse. We agree on so many other areas, after all.

 

[Ailtara]

A litttle O/T - there was a kind of know-it-all guy on another board that swore up and down that mousekeepers were not allowed to accept tips and had to refuse 3 times before they could take it.

I have never had a mousekeeper refuse a tip but this guy was just adamant that it was true.

I'm not sure this is true for mousekeepers(I doubt it is, though), but most cast members aren't allowed to accept anything unless you insist three times, after which they "must" take whatever you gave them to a manager.

For example: Regarding pin trading, we (cast members) are not allowed to trade pins that have names on them. A man once tried to trade me one and I explained to him that we weren't allowed to accept them as traders. He told me that he'd bought a whole bunch of them online (all Princess pins with different girls names) because he didn't realize they weren't tradable; he then noticed that one of his pins had my name on it. He was slightly annoyed that he'd bought all the pins for nothing, but honestly didn't care too much because his family was having a great time, so he offered that specific one to me because, "[he] can't trade it anyway and [I was] very kind and patient in explaining everything." I told him that cast members weren't allowed to take anything from guests. He told me that it had my name on it, he couldn't trade it, and he wanted me to have it. I politely refused again. He insisted once more that he wanted me to have it, so I took it and thanked him.

The 'three times' rule is there because, while it might be considered rude by the giver that the receiver is rejecting their offer the first few times, it would be even ruder to never accept it at all; if a guest wants to give something to a cast member that badly, not taking it would be like a slap in the face. Cast members are required to turn in whatever they received to their managers, but sometimesmaybepossiblymagically they let you hold onto what you were given. :animwink:

 

[SanFrancisco]

so you've never been to le cellier where the server disappears for long periods of time? i have, quite a few times, and no they don't deserve 18% for bringing me a couple plates. i believe the problem is many people dont know what it is to work hard, and when they see a disney server working a little, they think they should tip them alot. please, come to my hospital sometime and watch how hard i work. i don't receive tips (when i do find money, i turn it in). and, i'm in the service industry, so according to some people on here i deserve a tip.

OK, if you feel like your service at Le Cellier is inferior enough that it justifies leaving a lower than expected tip, fine. But come on, we all know when choosing a restaurant to dine at that there's an expectation of the diner to leave a standard tip. Again, part of this is because these servers (more than anybody else in the service industry) depend on your tips and make a living based on tips. Their rate of pay is a few bucks an hour so after taxes a bi-weekly paycheck amounts to NOTHING.

As for using your job at the hospital as a comparison, well that's just silly. I'm sure you work very hard and that you're honest when you find someone else's money. Nobody is doubting that when evaluating your tipping strategy.

However, your job's pay structure is not dependent on tips. Come on, that's just not a fair way to justify your not wanting to leave a standard tip. It's apples and oranges. This doesn't mean I don't respect hospital workers, doctors, and nurses. They're amazing. But I don't enter a hospital assuming I have to tip on top of my bill. I do however know that American servers survive on tips and accept the fact that if I'm dining out I'll pay an extra 18-20% gratuity on my check total.

 

[Sam02]

As for using your job at the hospital as a comparison, well that's just silly. I'm sure you work very hard and that you're honest when you find someone else's money. Nobody is doubting that when evaluating your tipping strategy.

However, your job's pay structure is not dependent on tips. Come on, that's just not a fair way to justify your not wanting to leave a standard tip. It's apples and oranges. This doesn't mean I don't respect hospital workers, doctors, and nurses. They're amazing. But I don't enter a hospital assuming I have to tip on top of my bill. I do however know that American servers survive on tips and accept the fact that if I'm dining out I'll pay an extra 18-20% gratuity on my check total.

I think what the poster was comparing their job to was the mousekeeper's job. They get paid an hourly wage, at least or above, minimum wage. Some people tip them because they are performing a service, which is what this woman does in a hospital setting.

I have to say I agree that the expectation of a tip in a lot of the service industry is getting out of hand. I am in my mid 30's and grew up learning that you tipped people whose job was dependent on tips, ie waitstaff, hairdressers, the like. You were not expected or required to tip anybody else unless they had done something above and beyond their job duty.

It seems like in today's society everybody in the service industry expects some type of tip. By this I mean having a tip jar on the counter next to the cash register after you ordered your meal at the local fast food establishment. I want to know where this type of thinking came from, that it is okay to blatantly ask for a tip like that. I'm sorry if you have to ask for a tip then you definately do not deserve one.

 

[SanFrancisco]

I think what the poster was comparing their job to was the mousekeeper's job. They get paid an hourly wage, at least or above, minimum wage. Some people tip them because they are performing a service, which is what this woman does in a hospital setting.

I have to say I agree that the expectation of a tip in a lot of the service industry is getting out of hand. I am in my mid 30's and grew up learning that you tipped people whose job was dependent on tips, ie waitstaff, hairdressers, the like. You were not expected or required to tip anybody else unless they had done something above and beyond their job duty.

It seems like in today's society everybody in the service industry expects some type of tip. By this I mean having a tip jar on the counter next to the cash register after you ordered your meal at the local fast food establishment. I want to know where this type of thinking came from, that it is okay to blatantly ask for a tip like that. I'm sorry if you have to ask for a tip then you definately do not deserve one.

No, the poster was referencing servers and even specifically brought up servers at Le Cellier. I agree that it's a greyer area when dealing with something like Mousekeeping.

 

[Disneykidder]

So there are no more fueds...tip if you receive good service and don't tip if you feel you were not served adaquately. Honestly, people are going to do what they want anyway so let's not cause another 8 pages of conflicts.

Mousekeeping~~ $2 a day and $5 on the last if my room looks good. Considering they have to pick up my dirty towels, etc., then they deserve it. But it's not like I trash the room, either. I leave it somewhat tidy.

Dining~~Personally I tip usually on the higher side if my service needs were met. If I was ignored and not staisfied, I still tip but a lot less than I would if my service was good.

 

[Dwarful]

Well now that I have read all of these posts I have a new question. If the server at LeCellier brings me a steak dinner on Monday night and the server at Tony's brings me a steak for lunch on Weds. do I tip them equally because both provided the same service? The dinner at LeCellier will cost me quite a bit more than the meal at Tony's, so how is it fair to the server at Tony's? I don't always tip on the total cost of the meal because I have never in my life had service that deserved a $40 tip.

 

[gsimpson]

I like our tipping culture...

To the OP, if the housekeeping staff did a good job of keeping my room clean and tidy and had a kind word whenever I bumped into them, after a week I will leave them 20. Same when I stay at a Marriott or Hilton on business. I eat out virtually every meal and am considered a good tipper by most all of the places I frequent. This works out to MY advantage. When the place is packed out who do you think gets the best service, me or some unknown? Several of the places I eat at know my eating habits pretty well and will set aside the "last order of....." for me, I am sure it is because they like me as a customer. Most places pay a miserably low wage, not one that can be lived off of, which is a shame in most respects but a great thing in another respect, the people who don't do their job well will not be able to afford to stick around and remove themselves from the staff, the people who do well and have good tips can actually make a decent living. Car hops at Sonic can make over 200.00 /night in tips. I travel to Australia fairly often and in that country virtually no one tips, the first time I went over there I thought how great it would be saving that money. Then the reality came home to roost in that the service is lousy by almost any standard even at "4 and 5 star" facilities. If you are recognized as a Yank you will almost always get far better service because they know we tip.

To all you people who hate tipping and think your being taken advantage of, by all means continue to not tip. That way, if a service person ever has to choose between giving good service to you or me guess whom they will pick.

 

[TigerLily_CM]

So...there's a joke my American friends would tell me...

"What's the difference between a Canadian and a canoe?"

"A canoe tips more often!" :ROFLOL::ROFLOL::ROFLOL:

see, I didn't know that Canadians had a reputation of being bad tippers I usually give 10%-15% on meals but (and I'm not sure if this is the case all across the country) in Canada, our waitstaff don't get a lower wage just because they get tips. I had no idea that waiters got paid a lot less than Min. wage until i had lived in the US at least 6 months! :shrug:

Here's my tipping pattern...feel free to critisize...doesn't bother me...

If i get good service you'll get 15%, if i get average service you'll get 10% or less, if you tick me off for any reason you get nothing. Mousekeeping gets $1 a day and yes I expect some towel animals. Coffee shops and fast food places get nothing at all because spending 10 seconds plopping down a burger or a coffee doesn't warrent a special gift from me. (unless I have a lot of pennies and want to get rid of them)

bus drivers get $1 or $2 if they're good and $5 if they're great (or really cute and Italian...don't ask) :lookaroun and nothing if I put my luggage on the bus myself and they didn't say 2 words the whole ride.

If you don't want to tip...I'm OK with that (why am I seeing Mr. Pink at the diner in Reservoir Dogs here...Choo, Toby Choo?...someone out there will get this) :animwink: If you want to tip a lot good for you....I'm fine with that, too.

If you work in the industry I hope you get the tips that you deserve based on the work that you do. And for the person who wanted people to go get an education instead of working in these jobs if they didn't like the pay. I just wanted to say 2 things...remember a lot of people work in these jobs WHILE getting their education because they need flexible hours to go to school. Also, I have 2 jobs one pays really well and the other pays crap...but, I like the crap paying job and love the people I work with so I don't care what it pays

 

[kimmychad]

OK, if you feel like your service at Le Cellier is inferior enough that it justifies leaving a lower than expected tip, fine. But come on, we all know when choosing a restaurant to dine at that there's an expectation of the diner to leave a standard tip. Again, part of this is because these servers (more than anybody else in the service industry) depend on your tips and make a living based on tips. Their rate of pay is a few bucks an hour so after taxes a bi-weekly paycheck amounts to NOTHING.

As for using your job at the hospital as a comparison, well that's just silly. I'm sure you work very hard and that you're honest when you find someone else's money. Nobody is doubting that when evaluating your tipping strategy.

However, your job's pay structure is not dependent on tips. Come on, that's just not a fair way to justify your not wanting to leave a standard tip. It's apples and oranges. This doesn't mean I don't respect hospital workers, doctors, and nurses. They're amazing. But I don't enter a hospital assuming I have to tip on top of my bill. I do however know that American servers survive on tips and accept the fact that if I'm dining out I'll pay an extra 18-20% gratuity on my check total.

i didn't compare my job to a server at le cellier, i said when they disappear for long periods of time they don't deserve 18%. i did say that i'm in the service industry and, according to some people on here i deserve a tip just for being in the service industry. and yes i know that my pay scale isnt set up that i have to depend on tips, but neither is a mousekeeper, from what i've read, they make $8 an hour. and most people, myself included, tip mousekeeping, but no one would think of tipping a housekeeper at a hospital that keeps the room clean for your loved one.