Tipping Mousekeeping

[Otterhead]

Just because you say something is factually incorrect doesn't make it so.

Well, it does, when multiple people have posted facts making it so.

Just because you and your friends do something doesn't mean you're in the majority

If by 'my friends' you mean 'most hotel guests in the United States'. I had no idea I was so well connected!

tipping is a common practice. It's just not.

Tipping is not a common practice... because you say it isn't? That's pretty hilarious, actually.

 

[elhefe4]

Well, it does, when multiple people have posted facts making it so.

If by 'my friends' you mean 'most hotel guests in the United States'. I had no idea I was so well connected!

Tipping is not a common practice... because you say it isn't? That's pretty hilarious, actually.

Point me to the specific facts you're citing. All I've seen are posts by people who say they do it but several surveys in which only about half say they do it.

That's so weird that you know the behaviors of "most hotel guests in the United States." You must be more well-connected than you thought to be able to speak for all of them!

Again, I said my experience might not be the same everywhere. So apparently tipping is a common practice because you say it is? Just as hilarious, actually.

 

[flynnibus]

"Expected" and "mandatory" are two different things. Gratuity is expected but it is not mandatory.

If it is expected to where people will label you a 'bad person' or managers will ban you from a restaurant.. or servers will spit in your food (all examples taken from the 'social norm' crowd in this thread)... it's not really just 'expected', but mandatory to get the services you are paying for.

Do any of those things happen if you don't tip the housekeeper at a Holiday Inn?

 

[Otterhead]

So apparently tipping is a common practice

Yes, it is. I suggest you stay in more hotels (and tip). It's commonplace.
If your experience is that it isn't, your experience is quite unusual.

 

[flynnibus]

Well, it does, when multiple people have posted facts making it so.

So pick your favorite and lets discuss it. Don't talk general, lets talk specific.

Tipping is not a common practice... because you say it isn't? That's pretty hilarious, actually.

The sad part is you really need a mirror.

 

[KrzyKtty]

You said "So I would assume that if those norms changed an/or evolved, the owners would have to continue to do the same"

The example illustrates the fallacy of your logic because it does not apply forwards and backwards.. but only when it suits your belief. It's the scientific method.. you postulate and test. Your postulation fails to lead to your expected outcome in different tests.



The minimum wage thing is a red herring in all of this. None of this is about making minimum wage or not. For the vast bulk of people working tables, their target wages are not simply minimum wage... and why they are working as a server and not some other job that simply pays minimum wage outright.

And you didn't seem to understand the example of how the tip credit and making up for it is really moot anyways because of how it is calculated.

I think you are pulling at straws with those specific posts of mine. I was simply trying to say that if tipping positions went away, that the restaurant owners would have to follow whatever new law took place to ensure fair wages. I am not talking about all employees who enjoy tips, but those who are allowed to be paid under minimum wage due to the expectation of tips to compensate their pay.

 

[Otterhead]

The sad part is you really need a mirror.

I suggest you get out more. Try staying in some hotels! I think you'll find that most decent people tip the staff, because that's what people do when they stay in hotels.

I'm not interested in arguing with you. I'm stating facts. If you don't like those facts, that's unfortunate, but you should move on.

 

[elhefe4]

Yes, it is. I suggest you stay in more hotels (and tip). It's commonplace.
If your experience is that it isn't, your experience is quite unusual.

I cleaned rooms for several summers and that was the experience that all of the housekeepers had. It's not unusual, you're just uninformed.

 

[Otterhead]

I cleaned rooms for several summers and that was the experience that all of the housekeepers had.

It's unfortunate that you cleaned rooms in a hotel with a lot of very rude guests.

 

[KrzyKtty]

I understand everything you were saying, I was simply trying to point out that those points were not quite what I was trying to say. I simply meant that without the tips, the law would step in to ensure some basic minimum. Whether they did better than that minimum or not would be up to many factors to decide. In the absence of tips all together, the law would probably step in to some degree to set minimum wage standards, as has happened in the past. After that, pay would be based on skill level required for serve in that restaurant. I would expect that servers in 5 star restaurants would still get paid more than at Ruby Tuesdays' much like they do now.

 

[flynnibus]

In my experience the standard tipping has moved from 15% to 20% because people, like myself, tend to leave a standard 20% tip wherever we go except if service is bad. I was a server so I leave that as a standard. However, it seems like a lot of others are doing it as well. That signals to establishments that the new standard is 20% and excellent should be 25%. It is called, "Creep" and this isn't the only thing that experiences it.

This is self-defeating logic. By tipping more, you are actually undermining the value of your own tip because people now think that is the new norm. Making your next tip worth less. The only way your tip is exceptional is if it is not normal.

Reality is, it's more akin to how 'internet myth' run than it is about 'standards'. Meaning, people publish things and promote them, and the more people say it, the more people believe it. Create an echo chamber, publish it, repeat, and keep repeating, and eventually people will repeat it themselves when it seems harmless enough.

It's funny how people will recognize the NRA as biased when giving opinions on guns... but think the Hotelier and Hospitiality trade groups are somehow great objective sources for customer behavior in the service industry.

 

[elhefe4]

It's unfortunate that you cleaned rooms in a hotel with a lot of very rude guests.

Yeah, I'd turn over 25 rooms per shift for months on end and only 10-15% left a tip. What are the odds that so many people wouldn't have heard that tipping housekeeping is common practice?! It's almost like it's not common practice at all...

 

[KrzyKtty]

This is self-defeating logic. By tipping more, you are actually undermining the value of your own tip because people now think that is the new norm. Making your next tip worth less. The only way your tip is exceptional is if it is not normal.

Reality is, it's more akin to how 'internet myth' run than it is about 'standards'. Meaning, people publish things and promote them, and the more people say it, the more people believe it. Create an echo chamber, publish it, repeat, and keep repeating, and eventually people will repeat it themselves when it seems harmless enough.

It's funny how people will recognize the NRA as biased when giving opinions on guns... but think the Hotelier and Hospitiality trade groups are somehow great objective sources for customer behavior in the service industry.

I really don't care if my tip is exceptional or not. I give what I think is fair. Much like you do or do not give what you think is fair. Most of the time I round anyway. So my tips can be anywhere from 18-25% based on the rounding.

 

[Otterhead]

This is self-defeating logic. By tipping more, you are actually undermining the value of your own tip because people now think that is the new norm. Making your next tip worth less. The only way your tip is exceptional is if it is not normal.

The expected amount has inched up at about the same rate as inflation and price hikes in general; I'd say that most restaurants (not just at WDW, but in any city) will expect an 18% nominal tip or 20% for great service. 15% is still OK depending on the venue. Anything less than that communicates that something was wrong with either the service or the food.

It's funny how people will recognize the NRA as biased when giving opinions on guns..

Sure, it makes perfect sense to bring up gun rights in this thread about tipping.

 

[NormC]

I used to be a field service engineer back in the 90s that traveled extensively. During that time I never tipped housekeeping staff. It wasn't the norm and our old company expense policy did not specifically mention it. Now our corporate policy allows a $2 per day housekeeping tip reimbursement. I have been in many hotels and have seen envelopes in several. I do tip now if I feel that they were attentive and took good care of me while I was there. I also tip wait staff for their service and do not hold bad food against them. I will hold bad service against them though and it will be reflected in their tip.

 

[xdan0920]

Just because you say something is factually incorrect doesn't make it so. Just because you and your friends do something doesn't mean you're in the majority or that it's common practice. I worked as a housekeeper during a few summers in college at a hotel in a touristy town and in my experience only about 10-15% of people left a tip. I never expected one nor was that part of the expectation before I was hired, but I did appreciate it when it happened. I'm not claiming that my experience would be the same everywhere, but when almost half the population surveyed says they don't tip housekeeping staff, you can't claim that tipping is a common practice. It's just not.

32% is not half. 46% is closer to half.

 

[elhefe4]

32% is not half. 46% is closer to half.

Note the "almost." Sorry for rounding. Similarly, 46% isn't half either. You're right that it's closer though!

 

[flynnibus]

The expected amount has inched up at about the same rate as inflation and price hikes in general; I'd say that most restaurants (not just at WDW, but in any city) will expect an 18% nominal tip or 20% for great service. 15% is still OK depending on the venue. Anything less than that communicates that something was wrong with either the service or the food.

Sure, it makes perfect sense to bring up gun rights in this thread about tipping.

If prices are going up because of inflation... tips are automatically going up because they are a percentage of the price that is increasing. Inflation is no justification for CHANGING the percentage. And inflation is usually 1-3%... by your retelling of history, we'd be at 40% tipping in no time. Your explanations fail even elementary screening.

No surprise.. you don't understand basic math nor understand analogies. Analogies are PARALLELS. No surprise you can't extract your emotions from the subject.

 

[xdan0920]

Note the "almost." Sorry for rounding. Similarly, 46% isn't half either. You're right that it's closer though!

Quite a bit closer. And in fact, it shows that more people tip housekeepers, then do not. That's pretty definitive.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Yeah, I'd turn over 25 rooms per shift for months on end and only 10-15% left a tip. What are the odds that so many people wouldn't have heard that tipping housekeeping is common practice?! It's almost like it's not common practice at all...

May I ask what part of the country you live in? Tipping is probably most common in resort and/or convention type accommodations, much less so in your highway La Quinta where people stay for one night on their way to somewhere.

 

[flynnibus]

32% is not half. 46% is closer to half.

Good thing the US government doesn't follow your logic about what 'consensus' means!

Simply being the largest group does not make consensus or 'norm'. It makes it a large faction.

 

[Otterhead]

you don't understand basic math nor understand analogies. Analogies are PARALLELS. No surprise you can't extract your emotions from the subject.

Um. I'm not even sure where you're going with this. But comparing tipping in hotels to gun rights is kind of a weird analogy, you have to admit. And there's no "emotions" involved there, just bafflement. Then again, you ignored my comment to say I don't understand 'basic math', so....