Time to ditch the Monorail?

[Hakunamatata]

Who thinks it's time to ditch the monorail system, in relation to the Magic Kingdom?

There is plenty of space to build a large parking lot to the west of the MK.

While the monorial has been a fun and exciting way to reach the park, it has become a hassle in the unloading/loading department; especially in peak seasons, and especially now that there is no 'down' time. There just seem to be too many visitors and it has led to bottlenecks and outrageously long waits. Ideally, you don't want a waiting line to be the first experience of the park, which is what the monorail gives us.

I know this idea will be sacrilegious to some, but front gate parking at the other three parks has been successful. Direct parking at the Magic Kingdom to the west, with easy tram and walking access to the gates, maintains the lagoon without the extra step of the monorail.

Might I recomend extinguishing the mind altering tobacco products and getting some fresh air to clear your mind?

 

[ohioguy]

Why hasn't the Disney/MGM/Pixar Studios been connected? I think the original plans called for a monorail extension, and it only makes sense. I would understand the AK not being connected, but the Studios really are only a jump from EPCOT. A long journey to the AK by monorail might be sweet, however.

I understand cost is the overriding factor in the decision NOT to expand the monorail, but it will only get more expensive in the future.

For the record, I never said I was against the monorail. In fact, I rather enjoy it. My question was valid, and I wondered about the efficiency of such a system since crowds have probably risen 100X since the MK was built in 1971.

It's too bad they didn't think of a massive centralized parking lot in the center of all the parks (west of EPCOT), with monorails serving each park.

 

[Larry Mondello]

Who thinks it's time to ditch the monorail system, in relation to the Magic Kingdom?

There is plenty of space to build a large parking lot to the west of the MK.

While the monorial has been a fun and exciting way to reach the park, it has become a hassle in the unloading/loading department; especially in peak seasons, and especially now that there is no 'down' time. There just seem to be too many visitors and it has led to bottlenecks and outrageously long waits. Ideally, you don't want a waiting line to be the first experience of the park, which is what the monorail gives us.

I know this idea will be sacrilegious to some, but front gate parking at the other three parks has been successful. Direct parking at the Magic Kingdom to the west, with easy tram and walking access to the gates, maintains the lagoon without the extra step of the monorail.

Let's compromise; bulid the new parking lot for those that want effiecincy and keep the monorails for those who still want them. Having both options will releive the conjestion that they have now.

 

[MaXXimus]

Hey there is a good idea.... lets make the entrance to the Castle a tunnel and drive our cars to the middle of MK and park. Maybe they could even put in some toll booths while their at it and hand out Mickey Mouse Ears as well... also for an extra $10 they could offer Valet Service by your favorite character???? :brick: :brick: :brick:

 

[yeti]

We all do yeti, we all do...

Oh, and I do understand your logic, but I don't like it. Plus, if you stay at a non-monorail resort, you are taken directly into the park, I believe. At least I was since I always stay at OKW. The monorail is one thing that is almost synonymous to Disney. It lets you know you're in Disney, the happiest place on earth, it's time to have fun. So in the end, you're fighting, an uphill, battle that you're going to lose. I would wave the white flag if I were you. I really would.

:veryconfu
I suppose I should've mentioned that I am in favour of the monorail.

 

[Champion]

be careful about mentioning E-Rides at Epcot..... the EPCOT purists may get you. I think EPCOT is about to become far more thrill park in nature. I can just see a Switzerland pavilion with the Matterhorn right now.....

E ticket and thrill ride ARE NOT the same thing.

 

[Champion]

Why hasn't the Disney/MGM/Pixar Studios been connected? I think the original plans called for a monorail extension, and it only makes sense. I would understand the AK not being connected, but the Studios really are only a jump from EPCOT. A long journey to the AK by monorail might be sweet, however.

Because carrying the crowds from two parks would not be efficient or feasible. You'd have people waiting HOURS at closing to get on the monorail, since it would be full by the time it got to the second park and thus not doing any pickups.

I understand cost is the overriding factor in the decision NOT to expand the monorail, but it will only get more expensive in the future.

Exactly. Which is why it will never seen any type of major expansion. Something like a resort being on the Epcot beam may occur, but thats about it.

For the record, I never said I was against the monorail. In fact, I rather enjoy it. My question was valid, and I wondered about the efficiency of such a system since crowds have probably risen 100X since the MK was built in 1971.

Your question was valid, but that doesn't make it any more correct.

It's too bad they didn't think of a massive centralized parking lot in the center of all the parks (west of EPCOT), with monorails serving each park.

Its good that they didn't, I wouldn't want to have to take a bus from my resort to that station just to get in line for the monorail to go back to the park. Direct routes only please.

 

[ohioguy]

does it cost a lot to operate the monorails or is the cost simply in the construction? It seems daily cost might be low, though upkeep is probably staggering.

 

[Monty]

does it cost a lot to operate the monorails or is the cost simply in the construction? It seems daily cost might be low, though upkeep is probably staggering.

Building a new beam is prohibitively expensive [there was a thread a while back that gave estimates in the multi-millions per mile]. Maintaining what they have now is quite expensive, including occasionally replacing trains as required, but the monorail is an icon of both DL and WDW and not keeping it would be more costly in the long run.

 

[Enderikari]

Just cause I want to add a Monorail Cat - and it goes with OP's theme

My opinion? Monorail stays, but at least you presented your arguments well... Nicely thought out

 

[Champion]

does it cost a lot to operate the monorails or is the cost simply in the construction? It seems daily cost might be low, though upkeep is probably staggering.

The last similar system built (the Las Vegas monorail) cost $88m per mile. However, due to certain costs, some people estimate that the actual number should be around $50m a mile.

Please do a search, there are literally hundreds of hot button threads about monorail expansion.

 

[Emerald Rose]

Who thinks it's time to ditch the monorail system, in relation to the Magic Kingdom?

There is plenty of space to build a large parking lot to the west of the MK.
I know this idea will be sacrilegious to some.....

Blasphemy plain and simple!! Keep the monorail!!:animwink:

 

[lunarsquid]

The best thing about this thread was all the warnings to the OP... and then watching the sparks fly! :lol::lol:

 

[Tom Morrow]

Because carrying the crowds from two parks would not be efficient or feasible. You'd have people waiting HOURS at closing to get on the monorail, since it would be full by the time it got to the second park and thus not doing any pickups.

Well, the logical way to expand to the Studios would be to have a seperate track linked at Epcot's station, similar to the TTC. The Studios is not far away... the track could include a few nearby resorts and the studios before returning to Epcot. Or probably just the Studios.

 

[Krozar]

I am confused on how it is horrible during busy times. Waits are not long. Faster than many e-ticket fastpass lines.

it has become a hassle in the unloading/loading department; especially in peak seasons,

Shows what little you know about WDW and the monorail system. Rushes are actually LARGER during non-peak season. How so? Park closing at fireworks. The clearing of MK takes longer than it does in the summer.

Mornings are about the same all around because busy days typically mean people entering the park more evenly throughout the day due to later operating times, especially summer EMH where people will typically show up much later.

BTW loading is about to become easier. Lime's car configuration is probably going to be implemented in all trains. It loads much quicker. Personally, I wish it was also possible to remove the center bench, but it's full of electronics and equipment. Trains need as much floor space as possible.

I never understood what is so difficult in loading anyways. Unless you have an obnoxiously large stroller... then you deserve it.

 

[OmegaKnight]

If you close the monorails, then I would be out of a job. How would you feel then? Seriously though, Disney is doing their best to upgrade the existing 12 monorail trains though. From computer upgrades to handrail configurations to general cleaning/maintenance, Disney is trying everything to get the trains to look as fresh and clean as possible. Yes, it can definitely be a hastle when one of the trains breaks down as it would affect the rest of the operations but us CM's who work in Monorail Operations are trained on how to handle guest situations that may arise.

Consider this fact for a second: 1 out of every 6 people ON EARTH has traveled on the WDW Monorail System at some point in their life. If Disney were to remove the monorails from property, the backlash they would receive would be off the charts. As some people may have mentioned, after the fireworks are over every night and we get our rush of guests, it may seem like a lot of people to move but we know the correct way to do it safely and efficiently. In fact, we get comments all the time on how quickly our line moves in regard to other lines guests encounter in the park.

Yes, I will agree that the monorail system is not perfect but nothing in the world is. But considering that the system has been running for 35+ years with one of the most amazing safety records anywhere, Disney must be doing something right.

 

[Krozar]

If you close the monorails, then I would be out of a job. How would you feel then? Seriously though, Disney is doing their best to upgrade the existing 12 monorail trains though. From computer upgrades to handrail configurations to general cleaning/maintenance, Disney is trying everything to get the trains to look as fresh and clean as possible. Yes, it can definitely be a hastle when one of the trains breaks down as it would affect the rest of the operations but us CM's who work in Monorail Operations are trained on how to handle guest situations that may arise.

Consider this fact for a second: 1 out of every 6 people ON EARTH has traveled on the WDW Monorail System at some point in their life. If Disney were to remove the monorails from property, the backlash they would receive would be off the charts. As some people may have mentioned, after the fireworks are over every night and we get our rush of guests, it may seem like a lot of people to move but we know the correct way to do it safely and efficiently. In fact, we get comments all the time on how quickly our line moves in regard to other lines guests encounter in the park.

Yes, I will agree that the monorail system is not perfect but nothing in the world is. But considering that the system has been running for 35+ years with one of the most amazing safety records anywhere, Disney must be doing something right.

Indeed, 1 billion folks and how many deaths? ZERO. How many transportation systems can claim that?

How many can say they run 3 monorails side-by-side (TTC)?

How many transportation systems are a global icon?

Monorails and Walt Disney have a very close relationship. He was always fascinated by trains and the monorail was his vision for the future. Nearly 50 years later, Las Vegas and Seattle are beginning to see what Walt saw. It's probably the greatest example of Walt's cutting edge vision which has survived the test of time. It continues to move guests in the tens of millions every year. It's one the of the last vestiges of Walt Disney the man within the Walt Disney Company.

If you close the monorails, then I would be out of a job.

Ditto. I am not keen on wearing a Kilimanjaro Safari costume. :dazzle:

 

[CThaddeus]

While I'm okay with the Monorails remaining, I don't feel the current systems are efficient enough, especially at closing time. I've read the arguments about spacing people out, but I'm sorry, I think that's a lot of rubbish. How is it better to keep people herded together in the Monorail station queue and the Ferry queue for up to 45 minutes rather than let them get to their cars and at least be able to sit down and enjoy some air conditioning while they try to exit the parking lot? And the mentioned problem of congestion at the exit could be eased by adding a few more lanes.
Personally, I'm not a fan of the current layout. I know if you're in a hotel along the Monorail track, it's probably not such a big deal, but to those of us unable to afford $100 or more a night for a room on property, we have to first drive to the Magic Kingdom lot, take the tram to the TTC, then wait in line to take either the Monorail or the Ferry to the Magic Kingdom...all of which wastes precious Park time. And leaving is even worse, if you want to stay for the fireworks. I was there last year during the "off-season" with friends who have small children. I can tell you that standing in a crush of people that barely feels like it's moving, while you have to also contend with two small, tired children, is not a pleasant experience. It's also not too pleasant having all those sweaty, now angry people pushing up against you. In fact, while it's pretty and all and I get what the original intent of the lake was, I truly dislike that it is there. I think it ruins the happiness of the day, especially since not only do you have to endure it getting to the Park, but then you have to do it again on the way out, when the last thing you want to do is stand in yet another stinking line.
So, here's an idea. It's not a cheap one, but I think it might alleviate much of the horror. Build a continuous Peoplemover either straight across the lake or circling it. This way, a third option exists to get across, and best of all, you never have to wait for the next train to arrive, because they'll never stop arriving. Of course, this will make the TTA in Tomorrowland redundant, but at least this way it would be serving a real and necessary function.

 

[Krozar]

While I'm okay with the Monorails remaining, I don't feel the current systems are efficient enough, especially at closing time.

I work an MK close at least 4 times a week. It's very efficient. ASAP, the express is made one-way. The monorail is parked and loaded typically in less than a minute. We put a lot of pride in moving it out as fast as possible. By the time the monorail has left, the next one is waiting at pylon 66 (east end of the MK bus depot) to pick up more.

we have to first drive to the Magic Kingdom lot, take the tram to the TTC, then wait in line to take either the Monorail or the Ferry to the Magic Kingdom...all of which wastes precious Park time.

Try working there day in and day out. I am lucky that I go in to work at Westgate, but many are not that luckly. Most CMs have to park WAYYY back behind MK in the massive cast parking where they have to walk to westclock without the aid of a tram. Then wait for a shuttle to the main tunnel entrance, walk a long way through that stank and depressing place, get to a break room to put their lunch box in a fridge and personal items in day lockers, and then get to work, only to be bitched at by the rudest people on earth.

I do the TTC to MK all the time on my time off or before work (sometimes just to get a dole whip), it's not that bad at all. Many find the monorail quick enough that they'll stand on the platform for another train with an open seat. Because standing on the non-AC platform is better than standing on an AC train and being at the destination... :ROFLOL: but, it's their vacation.

And leaving is even worse, if you want to stay for the fireworks. I was there last year during the "off-season" with friends who have small children. I can tell you that standing in a crush of people that barely feels like it's moving, while you have to also contend with two small, tired children, is not a pleasant experience. It's also not too pleasant having all those sweaty, now angry people pushing up against you.

I mentioned in an above post that the off seasons are even worse. The early park closing and the fact that it happens with Wishes means everyone leaves at the same time. During the summer, the crowds leave more gradually.

Small and tired children are not pleasant, but adults are the exact same way. It's understandable, you're away from home and out of your environment. Many also are new to the Floridian weather and are in the A/C too often and often dehydrated as well. I have made suggestions for the MK express platform to be extended outward and I have heard people suggest a queue that snakes off to the side of the park perimeter fence.

I think it ruins the happiness of the day, especially since not only do you have to endure it getting to the Park, but then you have to do it again on the way out, when the last thing you want to do is stand in yet another stinking line.

Welcome to theme parks. Sorry, but that's just the truth of it. If it ruins the happiness, why come back? The place is probably not for you. Sounds like you need a relaxing vacation. I always enjoy Mexico around Playa del Carmen and the all-inclusive resorts there.

So, here's an idea. It's not a cheap one, but I think it might alleviate much of the horror. Build a continuous Peoplemover either straight across the lake or circling it. This way, a third option exists to get across, and best of all, you never have to wait for the next train to arrive, because they'll never stop arriving. Of course, this will make the TTA in Tomorrowland redundant, but at least this way it would be serving a real and necessary function.

LOL. Yah, the parties with people worrying who goes with who and all the massive strollers, ECVs, etc. You gotta be kidding me, the monorail is often in the station about a minute after the previous one left and 300 are loaded in under a minute. A PeopleMover would just be a chaotic mess with how the guests are. Give people options and it confuses them more. Even when the monorail ramp isn't busy (most of the day) I will direct people in a specific direction. We do this because if you don't the fact that they can either go left or right will cause them to stop, get confused, block everyone behind them, and the confusion in WDW is contagious. Next thing you know, ya gotta expedite the situation.

 

[EpcotServo]

It would be the symbol of efficiency if it did not have its problems. The problems typically are fixed within several minutes. Otherwise, we are talking about 300 people about every 2 minutes for the express beam alone. How is that inefficient? Wait times are not that long. Recently, people have gone through the queue at a fireworks exit in about 10 minutes.

If there is any issue with the express beam, jump on the resort side and go to the second stop (from MK)

BTW the trains are cutting-edge right now. Brand new electronic systems in them all. The ride system is the old part, so yah it can be a bit bumpy compared to brand new trains




On the present beams, more than 4 per beam would just be backed up all the time. It's common for all 12 to run. If not, one is typically sacrificed from EPCOT.

Trust me, you don't need to tell me about the efficiency of monorails. (Proud member of the Monorail Society! ) I just know that I've had more breakdowns, and more things not working on the trains more than ever in the last year. I don't blame it on the monorails themselves, it's just that they're getting older and I think they've just started taking a "Wait until it breaks to fix it." approach to upkeep. And I do have to agree about the air conditioning. I have had very warm rides on the Monorail recently. (But it may be due to crowds.)

I actully think it may be the Monorail Society thing that makes me want to see some new trains.
:lol:

(Edit: I have to also say a peoplemover wouldn't work. Because Peoplemovers are better at doing local stops, not one far away station. )