News Tiana's Bayou Adventure - latest details and construction progress

[JohnD]

The needed to erase Splash. It does not matter to Disney what they put there.

Oh, yes it does. It had to be Tiana. Fair enough. And then they doubled down on the CO-OP, ingredient story just to underline the point. If it didn't matter what went there, it could have been, oh I don't know, Goofy and Humphrey's national park flume ride (watch out for that ranger!) which would have fit very comfortably in Frontierland.

 

[plutofan15]

I’ve got issues with Disney retheming attractions in general. Maelstrom and Mission Breakout being the worst of the worst.

I think Disney has gone way over the top with the virtue flag waving on this thing. Call
It “Tiana’s Splash Mountain” take the bunny out and put in some extra frogs and cook some beignets so you have an excuse to sell them and call it a day.

So attractions need to stay the same forever? Maybe update them with new technology perhaps?

Both Maelstrom and the Energy Pavilion needed to updated/upgraded. Especially the Energy Pavilion. By the end it was a good place to cool off, get off your feet and grab a quick power nap in my opinion. It didn't even appeal to chilren once they outgrew their dinosaur stage. As my then 9 year old daughter said " That was boring. I don't need a science lesson from two people I don't even know and then some cheesy dinosaurs. The theatre turning into a ride was pretty cool though." You can certainly argue what the upgrade/update should have been or whether what was built belongs in Epcot in your opinion. But I believe what replaced those two rides is better than what was there.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Oh, yes it does. It had to be Tiana. Fair enough. And then they doubled down on the CO-OP, ingredient story just to underline the point. If it didn't matter what went there, it could have been, oh I don't know, Goofy and Humphrey's national park flume ride (watch out for that ranger!) which would have fit very comfortably in Frontierland.

Goofy and Humphrey's national park flume ride - I LOVE THAT IDEA ! ..... Too bad....

 

[JohnD]

Goofy and Humphrey's national park flume ride - I LOVE THAT IDEA ! ..... Too bad....

Yeah. Just thought of it. Base it around that crazy cartoon with picking up trash, etc. Would have been lots of fun.

 

[mickEblu]

I don't think they're putting messaging before story. I think that's how you (and others who share your perspective) are viewing it. It's not necessary to view it that way and, to me, it seems unhealthy.

I'm not sure how this could be considered a new way of entertainment. Is it because Black people are telling the story? Because culture and social issues and the drive for authenticity aren't new for Disney, they're at the heart of Epcot (an inspirational, progressivist take on the past, present, and future) and Animal Kingdom (with its emphasis on the environment, conservation, and culture).

New meaning where story takes a backseat to inclusion/ messaging.

Nope nothing to do with it being Black. One of my favorite movies of all time is Coming to America. That’s from 1988. Black people telling stories is nothing new.

 

[_caleb]

Ok so Iger came out and said exactly what I’m saying a few weeks ago. What do you make of that?

I haven't seen where Iger was speaking specifically about Tiana's Bayou Adventure, but I think he was acknowledging that by putting so much emphasis on the cultural and representational aspect of the stories Disney's been telling, it crossed a big and vocal chunk of fans who don't care about all that and see it as indicative of societal decline.

But I also know Disney has another big chunk of fans who scrutinize their every move for appropriation, exclusion, and bad representation.

I don't think Disney anticipated that the first group would respond so vehemently to their attempts to be inclusive of the second.

ETA: I don't think storytelling is taking a backseat to messaging. I think it might seem this way to people who are used to being the target demographic for everything Disney did.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

So attractions need to stay the same forever? Maybe update them with new technology perhaps?

Both Maelstrom and the Energy Pavilion needed to updated/upgraded. Especially the Energy Pavilion.

updates are great. Snow White at Disneyland (along with the other dark rides there) are great examples of updating classic attractions.

Maelstrom and the Energy pavilion both needed updates, yes. They did not need complete rethemes that ruin the pavilions connection with the park.

And I was referring to Mission Breakout at California Adventure, although Cosmic Rewind isn’t much better but in a few years it can be re-themed back to universe of energy since it’s all screens anyways, haha.

 

[Bocabear]

A National Parks flume would have been brilliant...Then it could have actually been themed to something more frontier-like...a Goofy version of the ill-fated Western River Expedition.... Super fun idea and on-brand!!

 

[mickEblu]

I haven't seen where Iger was speaking specifically about Tiana's Bayou Adventure, but I think he was acknowledging that by putting so much emphasis on the cultural and representational aspect of the stories Disney's been telling, it crossed a big and vocal chunk of fans who don't care about all that and see it as indicative of societal decline.

But I also know Disney has another big chunk of fans who scrutinize their every move for appropriation, exclusion, and bad representation.

I don't think Disney anticipated that the first group would respond so vehemently to their attempts to be inclusive of the second.

Meaning… that they view it as an issue that needs to be corrected or they’ll continue losing money.

 

[_caleb]

So how is this ride going to age? poorly. Splash Mountain was one of the greatest theme park rides ever made, it was a big draw for people to the parks, now it's like replacing space mountain with the spiderman ride or the small world with a toy story mania clone.

And this, I believe is why they're rooting it in actual U.S. history and African American/bayou culture rather than JUST on the Princess and the Frog story. That will make it more timeless vs. just a trendy IP.

 

[TomboyJanet]

IF you want to save money how about just tweaking existing rides to updated versions instead of blowing the budget on nothing burgers

 

[plutofan15]

updates are great. Snow White at Disneyland (along with the other dark rides there) are great examples of updating classic attractions.

Maelstrom and the Energy pavilion both needed updates, yes. They did not need complete rethemes that ruin the pavilions connection with the park.

And I was referring to Mission Breakout at California Adventure, although Cosmic Rewind isn’t much better but in a few years it can be re-themed back to universe of energy since it’s all screens anyways, haha.

My bad. I got my Mission Breakout and Cosmic Rewind wires crossed. I would have to agree that I thought retheming Tower of Terror in California Adventure was a mistake. Then we visited a few years back and rode it. I must admit that it was a lot of fun - completely different vibe from Tot. I actually enjoyed it. At that time I thought that it looked out of place but perhaps that has changed with the build out of the Avengers Campus. Cosmic Rewind is in the top two or three rides for my family in all of WDW so not a failure at all. Agreed that connection story to Epcot is weak but the vast majority of people could care less.
And as far as the Frozen ride "ruining" the Norway pavilion, I respectfully disagree 100%.

 

[TomboyJanet]

And this, I believe is why they're rooting it in actual U.S. history and African American/bayou culture rather than JUST on the Princess and the Frog story. That will make it more timeless vs. just a trendy IP.

You can do all of that but make Tiana a hero triumphing over a villian something exciting not just cooking its boring

 

[plutofan15]

Always glad to be helpful. Have a wonderful new year!

As am I.

 

[_caleb]

Meaning… that they view it as an issue that needs to be corrected or they’ll continue losing money.

I know some here blame "messaging" for Disney's recent box office misses, but I don't think it's so simple. Disney is rebuilding its movie business around Direct-to-Consumer, and I think that's having a big effect on box office.

I'm also not sure the audiences who are reacting badly to "messaging" are skipping their annual trips to WDW or unsubscribing from D+.

The negative PR isn't great, though, and like we've seen on these boards, a particular segment of the fan base reacts poorly to the very thought of no longer being the center of Disney's efforts and seem to do what they can to take the fun out of Disney for everyone.

 

[_caleb]

You can do all of that but make Tiana a hero triumphing over a villian something exciting not just cooking its boring

Are there no villains in Tiana's Bayou Adventure?

 

[_caleb]

Are they reacting poorly because they re not the center or because the story isn’t the center? This whole conversation started because of the mural that doesn’t fit in Frontierland or 1930’s New Orleans. Not because of Tiana.

I think they'd say it's because the story isn't at the center. But I think it's actually because they might be less of the focus. Why do I think this? Because the insistence that the TBA mural is "objectively bad," or "looks like something a child would do."

But by whose standards does it not fit? The audience segment feeling scorned. The WDI team thinks it fits. Disney retains the rights to change the area from Frontierland to Bayou land (or literally anything else).

To be clear: it's perfectly fine to not like the mural, to miss Splash Mountain, or to critique the theme or its execution.

 

[mickEblu]

I think they'd say it's because the story isn't at the center. But I think it's actually because they might be less of the focus. Why do I think this? Because the insistence that the TBA mural is "objectively bad," or "looks like something a child would do."

But by whose standards does it not fit? The audience segment feeling scorned. The WDI team thinks it fits. Disney retains the rights to change the area from Frontierland to Bayou land (or literally anything else).

To be clear: it's perfectly fine to not like the mural, to miss Splash Mountain, or to critique the theme or its execution. But in my opinion, minority cultures should be treated respectfully and not subject to mean spirited and condescending criticism from majority cultures, which is what I'm seeing a lot of here.

My point is that the WDI team isn’t too concerned if it fits. Or at least not as concerned as the primary reason for it existing. I’m about 99% sure that it TBA was built 6 years ago that mural wouldn’t exist.

I think the art looks fine. It has its place. Its place just isn’t at Frontierland and part of an attraction that’s supposed to be set in 1920’s New Orleans. The one with Louis looks out of place but the other one with those faces (that I’m not sure I saw until recently) really looks out of place. I do believe things can be objectively ugly or beautiful.

 

[_caleb]

My point is that the WDI team isn’t too concerned if it fits. Or at least not as concerned as the primary reason for it existing. I’m about 99% sure that it TBA was built 6 years ago that mural wouldn’t exist.

I think the art looks fine. It has its place. Its place just isn’t at Frontierland and part of an attraction that’s supposed to be set in 1920’s New Orleans. But I’m also not an art buff. The one with Louis looks out of place but the other one with those faces (that I’m not sure I saw until recently) really looks out of place. I do believe things can be objectively ugly or beautiful.

Did you see my post from this morning trying to show the art style's consistency with the self-taught memory painters? I think it's a pretty strong connection.

Totally fine for you to say, "I think it looks out of place." But if someone who is from there and steeped in that culture say, "no, actually, it's pretty authentic," it seems like a good response would be open-mindedness to new insight rather than dismissal based on your personal preferences.

 

[mickEblu]

Did you see my post from this morning trying to show the art style's consistency with the self-taught memory painters? I think it's a pretty strong connection.

Totally fine for you to say, "I think it looks out of place." But if someone who is from there and steeped in that culture say, "no, actually, it's pretty authentic," it seems like a good response would be open-mindedness to new insight rather than dismissal based on your personal preferences.

Yeah I can see the connection but I think whether it’s authentic or not is irrelevant because it’s not authentic to the time period and looks out of place in the land (and park) it resides in. Obviously this mural just doesn’t feel right for a lot of people. We shouldn’t have to do mental gymnastics to make it work. Because if that needs to happen that means the imagineers didn’t do their job.