Tiana's Bayou Adventure: Disneyland Watch & Discussion

[BasiltheBatLord]

Splash Mountain is based on SotS, which is based on the Uncle Remus Tales, stories written by a white man and are separate from the original African folklore, where there is no Uncle Remus character and the stories aren’t exactly identical.

I’m just confused as to how a ride based on the original folklore instead of SotS would look much different. The songs would change and the characters would look kind of different, that’s it. Because WDI already went to lengths to try to disassociate the attraction from many elements of the film to begin with.

 

[Brer Panther]

So the question is what idea do you have that would remove completely any reference to SotS including the Brer's? Or is there just no way you'll accept anything if the Brer's aren't included?

Alas, no. Like I've said, if you take the Brers out of Splash Mountain, it stops being Splash Mountain.

At this point, there’s no possible way to keep anything related to SotS in Splash and have it still exist, including the Brers. This is the decision Disney has made.

I'm perfectly aware. However, what Disney doesn't realize is that retheming Splash Mountain isn't going to make Song of the South go away. It's still going to exist. So long as the internet exists, people are going to find out about it. There will be articles and videos talking about how there was a ride apparently so racist that Disney had to retheme it. Covering their ears and going "La-la-la-la-la I can't hear you" isn't the solution.

 

[GoneForGood]

I’m just confused as to how a ride based on the original folklore instead of SotS would look much different. The songs would change and the characters would look kind of different, that’s it. Because WDI already went to lengths to try to disassociate the attraction from many elements of the film to begin with.

I must agree with some of this. I've been reading and collecting various Brer Rabbit stories in the past few years. We brought the stories over here, and he copied down what he heard, though in his version he has a stereotype relaying them, (in which they speak in some inaccurate mish-mash of Gullah.). and it's Certainly not a good look..and I am also no fan of the Uncle Remus character.

But Joel did not just make up Brer Rabbit and co. I mean there's absolutely some minor differences. But not so much to say they are TOTALLY different characters/stories. You can find many oral storytellers across YouTube sharing the stories and they are just about the same. Some details change, sure. But that depends on the Storyteller. I've even found out Brer Rabbit has Native American roots as well. I have a friend who made a fantastic essay found here if anyone is interested.

Memorable You Can't Run Away From Trouble Entries

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I CERTAINLY find some of the choices made by Joel...interesting. But to say that some form of Brer Rabbit is "HIS" is not accurate. Brer Rabbit belongs to us and always has. There's a reason he's cited as African American folklore.

Though I understand now there isn't a large market for the character, most likely due to his misuse over time. He has become somewhat of a foreboding topic in some areas. Still on the fence whether that's a good or bad thing.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I’m just confused as to how a ride based on the original folklore instead of SotS would look much different. The songs would change and the characters would look kind of different, that’s it. Because WDI already went to lengths to try to disassociate the attraction from many elements of the film to begin with.

Do you have any knowledge at all of the African tales? It would look more than a little different.

The Brer stories here in America have been saturated with Harris’ appropriated takeover, hence why I suggested going back to the drawing board, the original African tales.

 

[BasiltheBatLord]

Do you have any knowledge at all of the African tales? It would look more than a little different.

Feel free to educate me. It was a genuine question. My PM's are open.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Alas, no. Like I've said, if you take the Brers out of Splash Mountain, it stops being Splash Mountain.

I'm perfectly aware. However, what Disney doesn't realize is that retheming Splash Mountain isn't going to make Song of the South go away. It's still going to exist. So long as the internet exists, people are going to find out about it. There will be articles and videos talking about how there was a ride apparently so racist that Disney had to retheme it. Covering their ears and going "La-la-la-la-la I can't hear you" isn't the solution.

Absolutely. And this is exactly why this is Disney’s fault.

 

[mickEblu]

Do you have any knowledge at all of the African tales? It would look more than a little different.

The Brer stories here in America have been saturated with Harris’ appropriated takeover, hence why I suggested going back to the drawing board, the original African tales.

As much as I would like to see some more light shed on the original tales, if they were to change the look of the characters/AA’s, change their voices and the take the songs out of Splash Mountain they may as well change it to PatF. The only benefit I can see would be the sets staying the same.

 

[el_super]

The only one to blame for this is DISNEY. Not some “mob,” not Frederick Chambers, not the fans. It’s Disney and it always has been.

What blame do they really deserve here? That they made the attraction in the first place? I feel like this is one of those "loved and lost" moments where you can point out that we had a great attraction sitting in Disneyland for 30 years, and we can still look fondly back on Splash Mountain, even while acknowledging it's time for the attraction to move on.

I'm perfectly aware. However, what Disney doesn't realize is that retheming Splash Mountain isn't going to make Song of the South go away. It's still going to exist.

So? They aren't aiming for 100% eradication and they would be foolish to think they could do such a thing. They are making a small step in saying they don't want to ACTIVELY support a ride that some people can see as offensive. They don't need to solve racism for all time in order to justify that small change. This isn't all that different from the small change they made back in 1986 when they decided they weren't going to release the movie any longer. They didn't want to actively support something they didn't believe in.

Change isn't one big cultural shift happening over night. It's lots of little changes over decades. This is another little change.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

Unfortunately, even though PatF is a solid movie, there's not a single tune nearly as catchy as Zip or even Laughing Place. And I don't trust the current braintrust who reimagines classic Disney attractions.

 

[EagleScout610]

Unfortunately, even though PatF is a solid movie, there's not a single tune nearly as catchy as Zip or even Laughing Place.

Going Down the Bayou and Friends are the only catchy ones in PaTF

 

[PiratesMansion]

What blame do they really deserve here?

Pretty much all of it, actually.
1. They chose to base an attraction off of a film that was seen as problematic from initial release.
2. They then banned the film to try and make it go away.
3. The internet came into wide usage, at which point the knowledge that it was based on SOTS became more widely known.
4. Disney had basically the worst possible response. Rather than acknowledge it, attempt to educate people about the harmful depictions from the film, and give a content warning, something that has been done by Warner Bros. in front of Looney Tunes shorts, they doubled down and continued to bury it. The worst possible response.

Because nothing makes people on the internet more interested than forbidden fruit or banned content, this only causes the story to spread and mutate. And then the story becomes out of Disney's control because they did absolutely nothing with it. "Did you hear Splash Mountain is based off a movie so racist they won't even release it?!?!?!?" spreads around the internet and because it's not something legally viewable, people imagine it must be something akin to Disney's version of Birth of a Nation, even if the film, while far from perfect, isn't anywhere near that.

And the longer this continued, the more it perpetuated. Until it got to a situation where Disney felt it had no choice but to remove the ride.

It is pretty much entirely Disney's own fault.

 

[Californian Elitist]

As much as I would like to see some more light shed on the original tales, if they were to change the look of the characters/AA’s, change their voices and the take the songs out of Splash Mountain they may as well change it to PatF. The only benefit I can see would be the sets staying the same.

Yes. I should clarify that when I said “Disney should have used the original African tales,” I was referring to Song of the South. Then the film wouldn’t have faced backlash and a Splash ride wouldn’t be where it is now.

 

[mickEblu]

Pretty much all of it, actually.
1. They chose to base an attraction off of a film that was seen as problematic from initial release.
2. They then banned the film to try and make it go away.
3. The internet came into wide usage, at which point the knowledge that it was based on SOTS became more widely known.
4. Disney had basically the worst possible response. Rather than acknowledge it, attempt to educate people about the harmful depictions from the film, and give a content warning, something that has been done by Warner Bros. in front of Looney Tunes shorts, they doubled down and continued to bury it. The worst possible response.

Because nothing makes people on the internet more interested than forbidden fruit or banned content, this only causes the story to spread and mutate. And then the story becomes out of Disney's control because they did absolutely nothing with it. "Did you hear Splash Mountain is based off a movie so racist they won't even release it?!?!?!?" spreads around the internet and because it's not something legally viewable, people imagine it must be something akin to Disney's version of Birth of a Nation, even if the film, while far from perfect, isn't anywhere near that.

And the longer this continued, the more it perpetuated. Until it got to a situation where Disney felt it had no choice but to remove the ride.

It is pretty much entirely Disney's own fault.

I agree although I’m not sure why they feel they have “no choice.” There is no anti Splash movement. They re just trying to get ahead of a potential issue but really I think they just got caught up in the heat of the moment during the height of BLM. Had they not panicked and made the announcement last June I don’t think they would be moving forward with this change even if its something they have been kicking around.

 

[Californian Elitist]

What blame do they really deserve here? That they made the attraction in the first place? I feel like this is one of those "loved and lost" moments where you can point out that we had a great attraction sitting in Disneyland for 30 years, and we can still look fondly back on Splash Mountain, even while acknowledging it's time for the attraction to move on.

They deserve every drop of blame.

They built a ride that's based on a film they have been hiding from for decades, which makes no sense now and it didn't make sense then. Disney has refused to officially release SotS on video in the United States due to the claims of it being racist, but then turn around and build Splash. No matter how you write it, it still lacks logic. Disney has had an ample amount of time to address the issues of SotS and use the film as a learning opportunity. They refuse to do it because that's what Disney does; they pretend things never existed at all. This is why they scrub things from films instead of leaving them as they are, explaining that they are offensive images that are not a representation of today, but products of their time and was therefore accepted during the era(s) in which they were respectively released. SotS is prime for a history lesson. But Disney is being their usual selves.

So now the film is taboo and many people have never heard of it and never knew Splash was based on this movie. All these years of hiding the film has made Disney look suspicious. And now people are discovering SotS and it's not good. One of my friends, who LOVES Splash, messaged me, apologizing for not knowing about SotS and explaining how she now felt bad (how is it her fault?). This is what happens when you make something taboo/banned. Had Disney made the film available to the public and hadn't created a negative and forbidding space for SotS, we probably wouldn't be where we are now. They should have been honest from the beginning. Honestly, they probably should have never created Splash to be based on SotS in the first place. Of all their films they could have picked, they picked the worst contender.

 

[PiratesMansion]

I agree although I’m not sure why they feel they have “no choice.” There is no anti Splash movement. They re just trying to get ahead of a potential issue but really I think they just got caught up in the heat of the moment during the height of BLM. Had they not panicked and made the announcement last June I don’t think they would be moving forward with this change even if its something they have been kicking around.

There may not be an anti Splash movement, but it's clear that Disney, internally, wants to erase anything and everything SOTS from existence and that Splash is part of that. The decision to build a ride based on a film that, even when the ride was conceived was known to be problematic, has not aged well and the ramifications of that decision would only continue to grow. The only thing that might have prevented this was if Disney drastically changed how they handle SOTS, far differently than what they've done up to this point...something they are demonstrably unwilling to do.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Pretty much all of it, actually.
1. They chose to base an attraction off of a film that was seen as problematic from initial release.
2. They then banned the film to try and make it go away.
3. The internet came into wide usage, at which point the knowledge that it was based on SOTS became more widely known.
4. Disney had basically the worst possible response. Rather than acknowledge it, attempt to educate people about the harmful depictions from the film, and give a content warning, something that has been done by Warner Bros. in front of Looney Tunes shorts, they doubled down and continued to bury it. The worst possible response.

Because nothing makes people on the internet more interested than forbidden fruit or banned content, this only causes the story to spread and mutate. And then the story becomes out of Disney's control because they did absolutely nothing with it. "Did you hear Splash Mountain is based off a movie so racist they won't even release it?!?!?!?" spreads around the internet and because it's not something legally viewable, people imagine it must be something akin to Disney's version of Birth of a Nation, even if the film, while far from perfect, isn't anywhere near that.

And the longer this continued, the more it perpetuated. Until it got to a situation where Disney felt it had no choice but to remove the ride.

It is pretty much entirely Disney's own fault.

Perfectly stated. And they STILL refuse to acknowledge it. They refuse to learn from their mistakes.

Release the film, Disney.

 

[BuzzedPotatoHead89]

I agree although I’m not sure why they feel they have “no choice.” There is no anti Splash movement. They re just trying to get ahead of a potential issue but really I think they just got caught up in the heat of the moment during the height of BLM. Had they not panicked and made the announcement last June I don’t think they would be moving forward with this change even if its something they have been kicking around.

While I agree the announcement in June of last year was fueled by current events, I’m not sure about the theory that they wouldn’t have eventually moved forward with this change at some point, at DL at least. Despite an aging infrastructure/AAs was one of the few major E-tickets to get some form of noticeable “show-level” refurbishment in any way. I just don’t know how they’d have ever justified the CapEx to fully refurbish the 1970s era AAs, Cal-OSHA approved safety rigging, and fully restored show scenes to bring them to quality.

Dropping the problematic elements, in the age of D+, there simply is no “synergy” in dumping cash on maintaining the “show” elements tied to a movie audiences cannot stream on their platform. Even The Wind in Willows, Davy Crockett and Swiss Family Robinson are still at least acknowledged.

And despite my personal connection to the songs, most kids born after Y2K will have no connection/recollection of the stories. Even if TWDC tried to “reintroduce” the Brer characters, based on the negative connections TWDC has let stew among the public I’d get why the juice is arguably not worth the squeeze.

 

[mickEblu]

While I agree the announcement in June of last year was fueled by current events, I’m not sure about the theory that they wouldn’t have eventually moved forward with this change at some point, at DL at least. Despite an aging infrastructure/AAs was one of the few major E-tickets to get some form of noticeable “show-level” refurbishment in any way. I just don’t know how they’d have ever justified the CapEx to fully refurbish the 1970s era AAs, Cal-OSHA approved safety rigging, and fully restored show scenes to bring them to quality.

Dropping the problematic elements, in the age of D+, there simply is no “synergy” in dumping cash on maintaining the “show” elements tied to a movie audiences cannot stream on their platform. Even The Wind in Willows, Davy Crockett and Swiss Family Robinson are still at least acknowledged.

And despite my personal connection to the songs, most kids born after Y2K will have no connection/recollection of the stories. Even if TWDC tried to “reintroduce” the Brer characters, based on the negative connections TWDC has let stew among the public I’d get why the juice is arguably not worth the squeeze.

Possibly but at the very least I don’t think they would be moving forward anytime soon.

None of us have any connection with the SOTS stories. I’m 38 years old. Lol. The movie came out in the 40s. I’ve seen SOTS once when I was 12 and fast forwards to the animation bits. We love the Splash Mountain characters/ songs because of the ride.

 

[el_super]

Pretty much all of it, actually.
1. They chose to base an attraction off of a film that was seen as problematic from initial release.

They deserve every drop of blame.

They built a ride that's based on a film they have been hiding from for decades, which makes no sense now and it didn't make sense then.

It still seems pretty drastic to suggest that they should never have built the ride at all. Even though I know its time to swap it out and acknowledge the problem, I do still enjoy Splash Mountain on some level and I will definitely miss it.

I do disagree that brining more attention to Song of the South would have fixed the problems with Splash. With such a depth of stories on the bench, I don't see how propping up Song of the South or trying to contextualize the characters is worth the effort, at least from an entertainment prospective.

 

[mickEblu]

Oh shoot @PiratesMansion were you saying the ride should have never been built at all? I don’t agree with that. Missed that point or focused on other stuff you said in that post.