LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
The criticisms made of PatF are quite different in nature and degree from those made of SotS.
-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
Tiana's Bayou Adventure: Disneyland Watch & Discussion
- Thread starter Californian Elitist
- Start date
BasiltheBatLord
Well-Known Member
Lots of reaching in that text to engender anything they could possibly take offense with and make the film out to sound as malicious as possible. Par the course for academia these days.
Also worth noting that 90% of what is labeled problematic in this reading is related to the live-action story which is not found in Splash Mountain.
On the ending of the film, I have a totally different reading. I see it as a positive and hopeful expression of racial reconciliation in a new America. The war is over, black and white children hold hands walking into the sunset. Not just a racial conciliation, but a generational one too, as a former slave is walking alongside them hand in hand. It's actually the most powerful and thoughful shot of the film.
PiratesMansion
Well-Known Member
By the time the movie begins, the war's been over. It's reconstruction and based on the bits of context we see from the film, it's clearly has been over for longer than just overnight. That's part of the problem, that the film is ambiguous enough in its time period and setting. If anything, that unintentionally helps to illustrate that for many, much of the change in the reconstruction era was more illusory than reality.
Do you truly find the way that the movie corrupted the stories and was seen as offensive at time of its release irrelevent? Because it's kind of important for understanding why there's a controversy and why the ride's being changed in the first place. Films are not simply things that can give you pleasure; they can harm and they can distort, something that people clearly felt was true of the film even when it was released.
It's just disingenuous to blame it all on academics and oversensitive people when people of its era were clearly outlining the problems of the film. That you don't seem to care that they're problems because they don't affect you directly (unless you're going to say that you're affected by the removal of Splash, which isn't even really true for you, as you live in Japan and therefore have much easier access to the only remaining Splash Mountain than anyone else that regularly posts on this side of the boards) does not mean that's true for everyone.
“These days?” Take a look at the citations, specifically the years from which the criticisms came from. They span from the 1940s to the 2010s.
I disagree. I thought the analysis, given the textual evidence and historical context surrounding the evidence, made sense and was spot on. There’s no reaching. The analysis and criticisms call out the ridiculousness of the film. They don’t indicate maliciousness. Just ludicrousness, and the movie is, indeed, ludicrous. We’ve been talking about why Song of the South is offensive for the past couple of pages.
The ending is a load of crock, given that there was no reconciliation after the Civil War between blacks and whites. In fact, there was the opposite: retaliation against black people from white people. Black Americans were met with more violence, despite slavery being over. The forced labor part was over, but the oppression and abuse absolutely were not. It literally took another century for Congress to pass the Civil Rights Act. What reconciliation? Lynchings, terrorism, and lack of basic human rights don’t sound like reconciliation to me. Absolutely not.
SotS deserves every bit of those criticisms and analysis.
BrerFoxesBayouAdventure
Well-Known Member
I'm assuming you're referring to WWII and not the Civil War in this post. That being said I do think the shot of blacks and whites holding hands is pretty powerful imagery but it doesn't do much to diminish the problems the rest of the movie has.
BasiltheBatLord
Well-Known Member
Some interesting insights on TBA from Royce on YouTube. Normally I wouldn't post random YouTuber speculation like this, but he does have some level of credibility given his former status as Imagineering (I think he also might still do some contracting for WDI? Not sure)
He clarifies that most of this is his opinion, but it's somewhat informed given his prior work on Splash Mountain.
He clarifies that most of this is his opinion, but it's somewhat informed given his prior work on Splash Mountain.
- The attraction's story is a sequel to PatF
- He believes Dr. Facilier will not appear in the attraction.
- He thinks the tree with the boat from the original concept art was a victim of budget cuts
- He thinks the geese are all being retired, although they will be replaced by entirely new critter figures.
- Laughing Place through the top of the drop will all be Mama Odie's house with two Mama Odie figures.
- He thinks the porcupine, raccoon and three gators from the finale will be saved, but they will probably be moved elsewhere. He thinks Ralphie on drums will go where the porcupine and raccoon currently are.
- He thinks the concept art with Tiana on the boat with the lantern is actually in the finale.
- He seems to think the showboat is staying in the finale, despite other rumors to the contrary.
BasiltheBatLord
Well-Known Member
In the context of the film's production it actually could be both. But in the context of the story it's the Civil War. I see it as a commentary on the end of slavery.
Disney Analyst
Well-Known Member
There’s no way the Tiana in the boat with a lantern, which is very much staged to look like an exploration, is in the finale.
mickEblu
Well-Known Member
A bunch of depressing predictions. Then again I’m not sure I trust his judgment if he thinks explorer Tiana will be in the finale.
BrerFoxesBayouAdventure
Well-Known Member
That's the perfect spot for it. Explorer Tiana and Naveen in the spot where Br'er Bear is in in the DL version.
mickEblu
Well-Known Member
My daughter was just watching an Alice in Wonderland ride thru. I’m in the other room and can hear that a Splash POV just came on after it. Man, what a soundtrack. What a shame. At least we’ll always have the high quality videos I guess. I wish Disney would have released a proper Disneyland Splash Mountain ride soundtrack.
Seriously all those amazing little touches like the possum falsettos or the bees humming along to “”laughing place” or just the peaceful instrumental leading up the first drop. It’ll never be topped
Seriously all those amazing little touches like the possum falsettos or the bees humming along to “”laughing place” or just the peaceful instrumental leading up the first drop. It’ll never be topped
BrerFoxesBayouAdventure
Well-Known Member
What does she think of Splash Mountain?My daughter was just watching an Alice in Wonderland ride thru. I’m in the other room and can hear that a Splash POV just came on after it. Man, what a soundtrack. What a shame. At least we’ll always have the high quality videos I guess. I wish Disney would have released a proper Disneyland Splash Mountain ride soundtrack.
Seriously all those amazing little touches like the possum falsettos or the bees humming along to “”laughing place” or just the peaceful instrumental leading up the first drop. It’ll never be topped
mickEblu
Well-Known Member
She’s 2 haha
I used to be dead against this change. I stated many times there is nothing racist within Splash Mountain itself.
But even if you fully believe the movie has no racist elements whatsoever, the general public does not know much about this movie other than it is racist. In this day and age Disney cannot be seen as promoting and highlighting such a problematic movie.
Remember this was all announced during the Black Lives Matter movement. It’s a bad look for Disney to say on one hand this movie is too racist to be seen and on the other hand say hey come see our ride about this movie that’s too racist to watch.
But even if you fully believe the movie has no racist elements whatsoever, the general public does not know much about this movie other than it is racist. In this day and age Disney cannot be seen as promoting and highlighting such a problematic movie.
Remember this was all announced during the Black Lives Matter movement. It’s a bad look for Disney to say on one hand this movie is too racist to be seen and on the other hand say hey come see our ride about this movie that’s too racist to watch.
Last edited:
Yeah, a cogent critique of the situation isn't expected until she's 3!!
SuddenStorm
Well-Known Member
It's funny, even RatChat's most recent update makes this redo sound bland and uninspired.
It sounds like all of the joy and happiness has been ripped away for a salt mine.
It sounds like all of the joy and happiness has been ripped away for a salt mine.
mickEblu
Well-Known Member
What do you expect from the Inclusion Committees piece de resistance? Maybe they’ll let the imagineers chime in a little now. Just hopefully not the ones that had anything to do with the new POTC auction script.
chadwpalm
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- No
Rich T
Well-Known Member
I’d like to see the final product before deciding whether or not I think it’s a bust. My response to that update would be to point out that Splash Mountain could not continue into the future as the Song of the South ride. All the joy the ride created was unfortunately tied to a film Disney is understandably ashamed of.
The joy and happiness was not mechanical singing bunnies and geese. It was not a big fake mountain front. It was not recorded music playing from speakers. Joy and happiness comes from within guests, and any new project has the potential to bring that out. I have a feeling most guests are going to experience joy and happiness on Splash 2.0.
Last edited: