Tiana's Bayou Adventure: Disneyland Watch & Discussion

AdventureHasAName

Well-Known Member
Okay. So, again, SotS is not based on the true African folklore, as I said.
Well, of course it's based on the folklore. He didn't just imagine it out of thin air. Your quibble is with the extent it matches some specific piece of folklore told by a specific person at a specific time - because every time a story gets told, it's different.
 
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Californian Elitist

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Well, of course it's based on the folklore. He didn't just imagine it out of thin air. Your quibble is with the extent it matches some specific piece of folklore told by a specific person at a specific time - because every time a story gets told, it's different.
It’s not, though. If it was based on the actual African tales, the names of the characters would be different. And there would be no Uncle Remus, a character Joel Chandler Harris made up himself. We also wouldn’t be having fans encouraging Disney to go back to the drawing board and consult African folklorists for something more authentic…because they wouldn’t have to if it was actually authentic to the African folklore. Song of the South is based on The Uncle Remus Tales by Joel Chandler Harris, not the African folklore.

Do your research, folks.
 

Consumer

Well-Known Member
It’s not, though. If it was based on the actual African tales, the names of the characters would be different. And there would be no Uncle Remus, a character Joel Chandler Harris made up himself. We also wouldn’t be having fans encouraging Disney to go back to the drawing board and consult African folklorists for something more authentic…because they wouldn’t have to if it was actually authentic to the African folklore. Song of the South is based on The Uncle Remus Tales by Joel Chandler Harris, not the African folklore.

Do your research, folks.
Clueless (1995) is based on Jane Austen's Emma. Just because the main character is named Cher and it's set in the 90's doesn't somehow invalidate that.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
It’s not, though. If it was based on the actual African tales, the names of the characters would be different. And there would be no Uncle Remus, a character Joel Chandler Harris made up himself. We also wouldn’t be having fans encouraging Disney to go back to the drawing board and consult African folklorists for something more authentic…because they wouldn’t have to if it was actually authentic to the African folklore. Song of the South is based on The Uncle Remus Tales by Joel Chandler Harris, not the African folklore.

Do your research, folks.
Not to mention the original African folklore may not have originated in Africa.

Versions of these folkloric tales are found throughout ancient AfroEurAsian cultures. It's impossible to know their true origin, even if there is a true origin and not just a melange of stories pinging around the ancient world.
 
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Californian Elitist

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Clueless (1995) is based on Jane Austen's Emma. Just because the main character is named Cher and it's set in the 90's doesn't somehow invalidate that.
And Song of the South is based on Joel Chandler Harris’ The Uncle Remus Tales. We can keep going in circles. Sure, we can keep going back and back and back, but the bottom line is Walt Disney did not consult African folklorists for Song of the South. He consulted The Uncle Remus Tales, something that is separate from the African tales, an appropriated version/spin on tales that Joel Chandler Harris listened to on the plantation.

The 2011 film Beastly, a modern adaptation of Beauty and the Beast, lists Alex Finn as a co-writer, as he wrote the book it’s based on. Gabrielle-Suzanne Barbot de Villanueve, who wrote the original Beauty and the Beast, is not credited. Same with SotS. JCH is credited as a co-writer because the film is based on something he wrote and created, something that strays away from the original texts.

It’s not based on the folklore.
 

AdventureHasAName

Well-Known Member
It’s not, though. If it was based on the actual African tales, the names of the characters would be different. And there would be no Uncle Remus, a character Joel Chandler Harris made up himself. We also wouldn’t be having fans encouraging Disney to go back to the drawing board and consult African folklorists for something more authentic…because they wouldn’t have to if it was actually authentic to the African folklore. Song of the South is based on The Uncle Remus Tales by Joel Chandler Harris, not the African folklore.

Do your research, folks.
Uncle Remus is the person in the film telling the folklore to the children. He's the narrating convention; of course he's not actually also contained within the folklore. They aren't first-person stories.
 

Californian Elitist

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Uncle Remus is the person in the film telling the folklore to the children. He's the narrating convention; of course he's not actually also contained within the folklore. They aren't first-person stories.
He is a character created by Joel Chandler Harris. He is in the film because Walt Disney based the film on The Uncle Remus Tales, written by Joel Chandler Harris…where Uncle Remus appears.

Song of the South is based on The Uncle Remus Tales, written by Joel Chandler Harris.
 

AdventureHasAName

Well-Known Member
He is a character created by Joel Chandler Harris. He is in the film because Walt Disney based the film on The Uncle Remus Tales, written by Joel Chandler Harris…where Uncle Remus appears.

Song of the South is based on The Uncle Remus Tales, written by Joel Chandler Harris.
... and what is The Uncle Remus Tales, written by Joel Chandler Harris, based on?
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
Yes, but in the '40s almost everyone met those criticisms with "well, that's absurd" and then they went and gave the lead actor an Academy Award.
Actually, far from being dismissed by “everyone”, the criticisms were quite extensively voiced, and almost all of them centred on the unfortunate romanticisation of plantation life. It should tell us something that people were already pointing to the film’s problematic aspects almost 80 years ago now.
 

Vegas Disney Fan

Well-Known Member
IMO, Peter Pan is far more racist and socially offensive than SotS.

I've always believed it's revealing of corporate Disney's true motivations that they've worked proactively hard to bury the latter, while barely bothering to even glance at the much more obvious problems in the former.

Some early Mickey Mouse cartoons had blackface characters and many had offensive depictions of natives, Fantasmic had horrifically offensive scenes.. thankfully they still make money though so they are still represented in the park, they just hid away or modified the offensive cartoons. They’re still available on YouTube though and it’s pretty shocking how blatant racism used to be.

If SotS still made money it would still be in the park, nearly all of Disneys old properties have highly offensive content, they just survive because they still make money.
 

Californian Elitist

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Actually, far from being dismissed by “everyone”, the criticisms were quite extensively voiced, and almost all of them centred on the unfortunate romanticisation of plantation life. It should tell us something that people were already pointing to the film’s problematic aspects almost 80 years ago now.
Right. And regarding the Academy Award, it was an honorary one. It’s not like Baskett won an Oscar for Best Actor/Supporting Actor, which still has nothing to do with the criticisms of the film at the time.
 

Consumer

Well-Known Member
Actually, far from being dismissed by “everyone”, the criticisms were quite extensively voiced, and almost all of them centred on the unfortunate romanticisation of plantation life. It should tell us something that people were already pointing to the film’s problematic aspects almost 80 years ago now.
That's its sin?
 

Ghost93

Well-Known Member
Stuff he made up, Uncle Remus included.
I think it's fair to say the Joel Chandler Harris stories are based on African folklore, but distorted and filtered through a white man's perspective. Brer Rabbit has traces in African folklore, but Uncle Remus himself is 100% a Harris invention — and a racist one at that.

And as others had said, Song of the South was pretty controversial in the 1940s. The movie had a nice two-decade resurgence in the 1970s and 80s where white adults — blinded by their nostalgia from seeing it as children in the 1940s and 50s — gave it a warmer reception than audiences did in its initial release, and Black Americans — while mostly still not liking the movie — weren't as vocal in their dislike of the film because it was pretty old by that point.

But by the 90s Disney leadership finally came to their senses and realized that celebrating such a problematic movie without any type of disclaimer is not in good taste. I don't agree with the decision to bury it entirely the way they did, but I do think the impulse to stop treating it like just another harmless children's movie was a good one.
 

Californian Elitist

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I think it's fair to say the Joel Chandler Harris stories are based on African folklore, but distorted and filtered through a white man's perspective. Brer Rabbit has traces in African folklore, but Uncle Remus himself is 100% a Harris invention — and a racist one at that.
The Uncle Remus Tales are appropriated stories that JCH heard from black American slaves on a plantation. We have little to no evidence, for obvious reasons, that what he heard was, one, 100% authentic and exactly, word-for-word, what he copied directly from the slaves, and two, that what he heard was even authentic to the African stories themselves and not something that was distorted and changed over time. Given that slaves had been away from the Mother Land for centuries at that point, something like that happening isn’t far-fetched and is highly likely to have happened.

To refer to Song of the South as a film based on African folklore is unfair and disingenuous.
 

AdventureHasAName

Well-Known Member
Actually, far from being dismissed by “everyone”, the criticisms were quite extensively voiced, and almost all of them centred on the unfortunate romanticisation of plantation life. It should tell us something that people were already pointing to the film’s problematic aspects almost 80 years ago now.
They were voiced and dismissed. The Academy considered them so hard that they gave the film multiple Academy Awards. The movie-going public considered them and decided to purchase twice as many tickets to the film as any other movie released that year. The future-movie-going public cared so much about the criticisms that it was re-released four or five times over the next four decades.
 
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