Rich T
Well-Known Member
That takes money and effort. The strategy you suggest was definitely an option, but the company decided the film was not good enough to be worth the time and trouble.
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Tiana's Bayou Adventure: Disneyland Watch & Discussion
- Thread starter Californian Elitist
- Start date
Rich T
Well-Known Member
The statement “…and if you feel otherwise you…” is generally not a swell way to discuss things. Just sayin’.
Now, Tony Baxter is one of my favorite Imagjneers, but when it comes to discussing Splash Mtn., y’know, it’s kinda hard for anyone to be objective about a topic when the topic is a huge project they spent years of time, work, and care on. And Splash Mtn. was a creation he can always be proud of.
But no one can read the future, and sometimes even wonderful creations need to adapt in order to continue to play to an audience. Especially when that creation is owned by a huge mega media corporation.
PiratesMansion
Well-Known Member
But Eisner himself was the one who decided to keep the film locked away. This isn't something that can solely be blamed on Iger.
Disney is not one to acknowledge ever that it has done anything wrong-see every press release about every unpopular change ever made in the parks, etc, and their continual decision to bury the film instead of having these conversations is precisely why we're in this boat.
And as judged by the reactions over the past three years, most people pointedly are not willing to acknowledge other points of view with this film.
Brer Oswald
Well-Known Member
Peter Pan’s concentration of racism is worse than anything in any Disney movie. It also is a significant thread in the film, from the point the gang gets to Neverland to the point they get captured by Captain Hook. It’s not something that can just be skipped over. There’s good scenes in between, but the bad is REALLY bad. Slurs are in two different songs.
SotS is a boring, clunky, awkward mess of a film, but there’s no moment that is as egregious as Peter Pan. Not to mention, none of the racist parts made it over to the ride! Can’t say the same about Pan, which still has the references in 2023. The disrespect given to Indigenous people by Disney and the fan community is vile, but I can’t say I’m surprised in the least.
Rich T
Well-Known Member
I disagree that the Native American-based tribe in Peter Pan tops the offensiveness in Song of the South, although I wouldn’t object to a smoothly-done alteration of the Pan scenes to match what recent stage productions have done to bring more dignity to the island tribe—As long as the original is preserved for film history. Again, Peter Pan is a great, much-loved film with one scene that is offensive for today’s general audiences. Song of the South is a lousy movie that has offensive scenes from start to finish, including a major set piece centered around a terrible racial slur that is repeated several times.
That’s why Splash Mountain had to change. If Brer Rabbit had been as huge a merchandise gold mine as Tinker Bell and had become the 2nd best-known icon representing the entire corporation like Tinker Bell, it probably would have been a much tougher decision.
And I’m sure the tiny diorama of the Island tribe will be removed from DL’s Peter Pan ride soon; I’m guessing it would take about an afternoon, a screwdriver, and a can of paint. I’m hoping it’s replaced with a jump scare of the Crocodile suddenly leaping up from below as a tribute to that part of the original 1955 version of the ride that scared me to pieces. Disney has got to stop shying away from making dark rides a little bit frightening.
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Kirby86
Well-Known Member
If one of the songs you mentioned is Following the Leader just last year Disney put a sing along version on YouTube.
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
I haven’t seen song of the south, but Peter Pan definitely has more than one scene that is offensive. The entire plot of Tiger Lilly is extremely problematic, plus there is the follow the leader song, plus the song “what makes the red man red,” plus the natives giving young children a pipe to smoke, and then there are the mermaids and Wendy trying to kill tink. Wowzers. Haha
Brer Oswald
Well-Known Member
YIKES
Rich T
Well-Known Member
Peter Pan has lots of strange and dark elements, and—Native caricatures aside—those elements are what makes the story what is. I do think calling the Tiger Lilly plot problematic is silly; Hook is a murderous villain who has kidnapped a courageous princess who refuses to back down in the face of his threats. Later, Wendy tries to emulate Tiger Lilly’s courage when she’s forced to walk the plank. Hook is a coward and a codfish. That’s the point.
Yes, Tink tries to kill Wendy. That has always been in the story, right from the original play and novel. Tinker Bell is not a sweet character at the start.
Have you read the book? If not, give it a go: it is dark. Peter Pan is a tragic character, forever blessed and cursed with the inability to grow and mature as a person. The deeper emotions of life are forever beyond his reach.
Anyway. back to the delightful animated version that’s so well-loved; I would like to see the tribe given a well-done makeover, unlikely as that is to happen anytime soon. If anyone has a problem with villains kidnapping princesses, humorous smoking gags (Oh my gosh, Pinocchio smokes too! And drinks beer! And little Dumbo gets drunk! And that water-pipe smoking caterpillar just told that girl to eat a mushroom! Did Lady and the Tramp sleep together on their first date?!?) then they probably have a problem with 99% of the movies and novels and comic books that have ever been produced in the history of humankind. Goodness, let’s not get started discussing Greek Mythology.
Everything is offensive to someone, but fortunately, no one person has the power to cancel art just because they don’t like it. Also fortunately, the GP usually has a good gut sense of when something has gone too far.
Song of the South goes too far. And, double whammy, it’s also a very weak film.
So the Log Flume understandably loses its singing bunny because social media exists and Wendy-hating Tinker Bell is a beloved corporate Icon while Disney maybe considers devoting an entire land to evil villains. No one said life isn’t strange.
Now, excuse me while I get ready to go ride Villain Con at UOR for the umpteenth time (I’ve almost broken the million point line!) Boy howdy, I’m sure future generation scholars are gonna have a field day analyzing the morally sideways comedic world of the Despicable Me/Minions universe.
Consumer
Well-Known Member
The only reason to watch Song of the South is for the animated segments and the music, which of course are what the ride's based on. If Disney wanted to avoid any controversy, they could have released as series of Br'er Rabbit shorts with him cleverly evading Br'er Fox and Br'er Bear. Much too late for that now, but that would have been the wise course of action 35 years ago.
Rich T
Well-Known Member
The problem with that is that one of the film’s animated segments contains the most brutally offensive scene in the entire film, and it’s that scene, I’m fairly certain, that is the major reason why Disney will never release the film again. It didn’t help the ride that the song “How do you do” is sung in that particular scene.
Yes, Disney could have digitally altered the visuals and dialogue to possibly change the molten tar to honey. But they didn’t, and here we are.
So, SotS is now gone until it becomes public domain, and then the whole world can judge for itself, and probably generally say, “Nice animation and music, but MAN this movie is offensive and boring.”
Consumer
Well-Known Member
Not sure what scene you're referring to or the offensive content within as I've only seen the movie once a long time ago and have no desire to rewatch it, but I'm saying Disney should have made a new series of animated shorts, separate entirely from Song of the South. New animation, new stories, new songs, giving Br'er Rabbit a new identity separate from Song of the South. Again, doesn't matter now.
BasiltheBatLord
Well-Known Member
If I'm correctly understanding which scene you're talking about, feels a little disingenuous to say that. Unless I'm mistaken the term "tar baby" originated from the original folklore tale which is represented in SotS and which indeed features a baby literally made of tar. If you feel that the term had been absorbed in culture as a slur by 1946 and therefore shouldn't have been used in the film then okay I guess, but the use of that term as a direct reference to the folklore and nothing else was apparently so common that it was used by U.S. politicians as recently as the 2010s.
Rich T
Well-Known Member
What matters re: Song of the South’s fate is how offensive the term has become with the general public. Back in the 70’s Chevy Chase and Richard Pryor used it as a shock-insult in a very well-know SNL sketch about racism (“The Job Interview”). It blows the mind that a politician would use it so recently. In the movie, combining the term with the visual imagery of Brer Rabbit’s eyes peeking out of a mass of black tar… Let’s just say “Not a good thing.” No wonder Disney has swept the movie under the carpet.
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Rich T
Well-Known Member
That would have been interesting, and I wouldn’t be surprised if someone told me they’d considered such a series at one point. But the thing is; why? When there are so many stories and existing popular characters they can spend money producing a series about, why on Earth would they choose to fund a series connected to the most controversial film in the company’s history? Because the connection would always be there, no matter how hard they try to ignore it.
Disney just plain got tired of dealing with it and decided “Who needs THIS headache???” and put SotS in the vault-in-a-vault labeled “Do Not Open Ever.”
Midwest Elitist
Well-Known Member
Didn't really help that the ride which uses the movie, closing actually made people mad enough they had to increase the retheme budget. There was curious public interest, Disney could have righted that wrong without killing Splash.
BrerFoxesBayouAdventure
Well-Known Member
What's wrong with Following the Leader? I'm out of the loop and always thought it was just an innocuous silly song.
They DID release the Tar Baby segment on Super 8MM film back in the day, I happen to own a print of it:
Laughin' Place segment was also released on this format in Italy of all places.
Of course, they could've easily released a VHS compilation with new animation linking the film's segments together but for whatever asinine reason they thought otherwise. Also of note is that an animated series based on the Critter Country land was considered in the 90s featuring Br'er Fox as the main antagonist but it didn't come to fruition.
It's very telling literally the only reason people like Song of the South is for its wonderfully animated sequences, in fact posters for the movie went from downplaying the cartoons to making them the pivotal focus. For being the Walt Disney Company's first live action film, it's no surprise its EXTREMELY rough around the edges but I still don't believe that's a valid excuse for the movie turning out the way it did.
Vegas Disney Fan
Well-Known Member
This is why I still feel the primary reason for the change was they wanted a Tiana ride and Splash conveniently fit the bayou theme, it could be converted for much less than building a new ride and as a bonus they could get some good PR for saying it was for social reasons.
I’m amazed the natives in Peter Pan have survived this long, if this were truly about being less offensive they should have been the second thing to go after the headhunters in Jungle Cruise.
I think PP will eventually change but it’ll be based on finances rather than PR, they’ll only go once they require expensive repairs (cheaper to replace them) or they decide it‘s more profitable to put a new IP in the space.
I think this change is similar to the ToT to Guardians change, they wanted Guardians in the park and ToT fit the bill, they wanted Tiana in the park and Splash fit the bill.
Midwest Elitist
Well-Known Member
The box art on the bottom is perfect. Love the Zipadeedoodah around the frame.
Ghost93
Well-Known Member
I think you have to remember the 80s were a very different time. It's possible that in the 80s, a decade in which Song of the South had two theatrical re-releases and was expected to be a permanent part of the Disney rotation among the general public, the NAACP was simply happy that Uncle Remus, the plantation, and the Tar Baby wouldn't be in the ride. The sanitized version of the Song of the South story could have been seen as a mini-victory at the time. Three decades later, after the film had long been buried, it made sense to question why SOTS was chosen as the theme in the first place.