Tiana's Bayou Adventure: Disneyland Watch & Discussion

[BasiltheBatLord]

They should have just gotten real and accepted that the vast majority of people going into a Star War land weren't interested in the Disney trilogy. There's little to no demand for these new characters and the movies are very rapidly fading away. Turns out I wasn't in the minority not buying into this crap. Where's Luke, Han, Darth Vader? Where's the fun?? It's ironic that the land looks like a garbage dump.

Yeah this is just armchair hypothesizing but I feel like them dropping the canon timeline stuff is an eventual inevitability. It feels like the sequel trilogy is already barely culturally relevant now that it's over. But maybe I'm just speaking from a position of privilege of not being a child who grew up with it, maybe people said the same about the prequels once they were over.

 

[PiratesMansion]

I will point out again that people have been complaining about classics being removed, and nostalgia being lost for 30 to 40 years now, and the places has still performed exceptionally well and gained even more fans and follows in that time.

This may be hard to hear or understand, but there is a huge gap in the concept of what Disneyland is between the fan community and between the broader group of people who like going to Disneyland but don't usually think about it all that much. The fan community will always weigh the value of the experience in the minute details of the tangible experience: how many rides a park has, how many animatronics a show has, which imagineer worked on which ride and which ones are connected to Walt. But the broader audience, the one that Disneyland was really built for, doesn't care about any of that at all. They go because they want to spend time with their family. They go because their kids like meeting the characters and they can post the pictures on Facebook. They go because the rides are fun to go on. Because the rides are thrilling or have cool effects or some character the kids like.

In short: they do not think about things in any detail and as soon as they leave, they are done thinking about Disneyland for another year.

I think we all generally understand that, as long as the Frog ride is good, people will ride it and not care that Splash was removed. As long as the ride is still evoking the same feelings as the original (being fun, thrilling, innovative, etc), people can still feel nostalgic when riding it, because it's the feelings it evokes that they are pining for, not the specific animatronics, the paint, or the art direction. And to expand that to the broader concept: as long as the core reason people visit Disneyland remains the same (the nostalgia for being with your family and friends) then it doesn't really matter which attractions they end up removing or replacing.

I think the truth is closer to the middle than either side would like to admit.

Sure, some people won't care about the details, and just care about fun rides they can do with their kids. I do agree that almost nobody outside of boards like these thinks about theme parks unless they are going to or are inside them.

But a lot of people do remember things they did and loved as a child (see: the numerous people in my age group who just will not shut up about the movie Space Jam) and want to share those things with their children. Even if Space Jam is trash, the likelihood that it will simply no longer be available at some point is remote. The same is not true for theme park attractions. Theme parks tend to bring out emotions in all visitors (even if that emotion is simply joy at having fun or anger at being ripped off by overpriced food) and perhaps because of that conversations about them tend to be dominated by emotions or feelings.

It will probably take many changes for most people to notice an appreciable difference, and if they don't care about those changes, they'll just carry on as they did before. But if they do care? They might start looking for other (cheaper) ways to spend their money.

The company also does not understand or know how to deal with people like myself who are fans of Disney because of the parks first and everything else a distant second. It may well be more profitable for them to focus on people who like what they see now, and I'm sure that on many levels those people are replaceable. But, as Walt said, those little details are more important than many people willing to admit, and that people can sense that something is wrong even if they can't tell precisely what it is.

That said, as you and others have noted, the business model has changed and they don't seem to be suffering (or, as a cynic might say, suffering YET). So both sides of the equation have valid points and perspectives.

 

[1HAPPYGHOSTHOST]

I will point out again that people have been complaining about classics being removed, and nostalgia being lost for 30 to 40 years now, and the places has still performed exceptionally well and gained even more fans and follows in that time.

Well not last summer it didn't. Empty.

 

[DisneyLostBoy03]

Here is a before and after illustration I put together of one of the possible scenes for the Princess and the Frog attraction. To be completely honest, as much as I will miss Splash Mountain, I am thrilled that Princess and the Frog is receiving an attraction.

 

[BasiltheBatLord]

So what do we think the Splash mountain hidden easter egg is gonna be?

 

[socalifornian]

If you look behind you on the final ascent you’ll see the busts of Tiana, Dr. Facilier and Prince Naveen on the wall since that’s all they’ll have the money for with this overlay

 

[EagleScout610]

So what do we think the Splash mountain hidden easter egg is gonna be?

Supposedly the Brer Bear rolling around on his butt will be reskinned to Louis stuck in prickers

 

[smooch]

I think losing Splash isn’t enough for some people to drop Disney. But we’re certainty getting to the point where “enough is enough”. I think they could maybe get away with Big Thunder, and some modifications to Small World. But they’re going to have to tread really lightly when it comes to their remaining classics. Pirates, Mansion, Small World, Space Mountain. If they replace any of them outright, they’re gonna wish they didn’t.

I don't think they could get away with Big Thunder. At least I don't think they could without significant backlash. Splash at least has a case for being removed due to the controversial nature of the source material, but Big Thunder doesn't have that. It is a runaway mine train ride, there is nothing like the Native Americans that were already removed from Frontierland that could be seen as problematic. I don't know what they could retheme it to that could compete with Big Thunder, the mountain itself is iconic to the park and is the "weenie" of Frontierland. Splash has always been up there in terms of my favorite rides / most important rides in the park. If they were to replace or even significantly alter Pirates, Mansion, Small World, Space Mountain, or Big Thunder then I would seriously reconsider going to the parks. I'm not very unique but Pirates and HM are my favorite rides in the park (Pirates just barely wins for me personally) and honestly followed by that is Indy then the mountains / Matterhorn. If they were to significantly change these rides it would be a massive blow that I think could cause way way more damage than they would anticipate. These rides are classics, they shouldn't be changed / altered / replaced, they should be tastefully updated in the way Peter Pan was: the effects aren't big changes to effects (projection mapping instead of fixing Indy's rotating doors) and they don't stand out as awkward from the rest of the ride. I'm going to be watching changes with a lot of interest in the future, Splash already hurts and if we see big changes to the parks then I might just stop going (until I get a chance to visit TDL) depending on what happens.

Even the rumor (no matter how much weight the rumor actually holds) that the hanging corpse in the stretching room of HM possibly being removed is a big blow due to the principle. Of course the rest of the ride is in tact and the rest of the stretching room is there, but they are making changes that really don't contribute much to the parks and instead are removing / changing things that shouldn't be touched / don't need to be. Yes, as a kid I was initially scared of the hanging corpse, but it's the HAUNTED mansion. It's supposed to be scary in the first half of the ride. Not a horror house scary, but it is supposed to be ominous and scary before the ghosts materialize and from there it's a more fun light hearted ride. Removing the corpse would be ridiculous, I never have seen people complain about it (I know that doesn't mean it doesn't happen, but you get the point) and it seems like a ridiculous needless change.

Disney seems to be on and off on understanding that people come to the parks for the nostalgia, for the classics. They sell merch for classics and use them to draw people in, then change classics and act like people care more about coming for modern additions like GE and Pandora in WDW and Guardians in DCA. That's not true, while I love the parks I have never gone once specifically for something new. The closest was when Cars Land opened in DCA and I was so excited to go, but I didn't go for years after it opened and had the trip planned anyways it wasn't specifically for Cars Land, heck we didn't even see it til the second day. My family spent the whole first day of the trip inside of Disneyland. Disney honestly thinks too highly of themselves now and their newest attractions, the most charming / loved parts of the park were created by people who no longer have any input in Disney. The people at modern Disney inherited an incredible park and act like it was all their doing and they are the reason the park is so incredible when that is simply untrue.

 

[PiratesMansion]

I don't think they could get away with Big Thunder. At least I don't think they could without significant backlash. Splash at least has a case for being removed due to the controversial nature of the source material, but Big Thunder doesn't have that. It is a runaway mine train ride, there is nothing like the Native Americans that were already removed from Frontierland that could be seen as problematic. I don't know what they could retheme it to that could compete with Big Thunder, the mountain itself is iconic to the park and is the "weenie" of Frontierland. Splash has always been up there in terms of my favorite rides / most important rides in the park. If they were to replace or even significantly alter Pirates, Mansion, Small World, Space Mountain, or Big Thunder then I would seriously reconsider going to the parks. I'm not very unique but Pirates and HM are my favorite rides in the park (Pirates just barely wins for me personally) and honestly followed by that is Indy then the mountains / Matterhorn. If they were to significantly change these rides it would be a massive blow that I think could cause way way more damage than they would anticipate. These rides are classics, they shouldn't be changed / altered / replaced, they should be tastefully updated in the way Peter Pan was: the effects aren't big changes to effects (projection mapping instead of fixing Indy's rotating doors) and they don't stand out as awkward from the rest of the ride. I'm going to be watching changes with a lot of interest in the future, Splash already hurts and if we see big changes to the parks then I might just stop going (until I get a chance to visit TDL) depending on what happens.

Even the rumor (no matter how much weight the rumor actually holds) that the hanging corpse in the stretching room of HM possibly being removed is a big blow due to the principle. Of course the rest of the ride is in tact and the rest of the stretching room is there, but they are making changes that really don't contribute much to the parks and instead are removing / changing things that shouldn't be touched / don't need to be. Yes, as a kid I was initially scared of the hanging corpse, but it's the HAUNTED mansion. It's supposed to be scary in the first half of the ride. Not a horror house scary, but it is supposed to be ominous and scary before the ghosts materialize and from there it's a more fun light hearted ride. Removing the corpse would be ridiculous, I never have seen people complain about it (I know that doesn't mean it doesn't happen, but you get the point) and it seems like a ridiculous needless change.

Disney seems to be on and off on understanding that people come to the parks for the nostalgia, for the classics. They sell merch for classics and use them to draw people in, then change classics and act like people care more about coming for modern additions like GE and Pandora in WDW and Guardians in DCA. That's not true, while I love the parks I have never gone once specifically for something new. The closest was when Cars Land opened in DCA and I was so excited to go, but I didn't go for years after it opened and had the trip planned anyways it wasn't specifically for Cars Land, heck we didn't even see it til the second day. My family spent the whole first day of the trip inside of Disneyland. Disney honestly thinks too highly of themselves now and their newest attractions, the most charming / loved parts of the park were created by people who no longer have any input in Disney. The people at modern Disney inherited an incredible park and act like it was all their doing and they are the reason the park is so incredible when that is simply untrue.

I would hope they would keep Big Thunder, but I feel like in some ways it's the most minor of the mountains, which could theoretically make it easier to change. I do believe that Disney has at least toyed with making a Big Thunder movie, which could ensure its survival in the worst possible way.

If the hanging corpse is removed from the stretching room, it would be less because it's too scary and more because of suicide-related sensitivity concerns. There is a cavalier, humorous attitude towards suicide in many older works that has disappeared over time as people have come to understand more about suicide, and many people may no longer find such jokes funny.

 

[mickEblu]

I would hope they would keep Big Thunder, but I feel like in some ways it's the most minor of the mountains, which could theoretically make it easier to change. I do believe that Disney has at least toyed with making a Big Thunder movie, which could ensure its survival in the worst possible way.

If the hanging corpse is removed from the stretching room, it would be less because it's too scary and more because of suicide-related sensitivity concerns. There is a cavalier, humorous attitude towards suicide in many older works that has disappeared over time as people have come to understand more about suicide, and many people may no longer find such jokes funny.

Man, people are softer than Charmin Ultra these days.

 

[BuzzedPotatoHead89]

Jim Hill has yet another new podcast out (Centered around merchandise). Kind of a nothing-burger but a few nuggets reaffirming some of the information we have heard from both him other sources including @TP2000:

Take with the usual grain of salt:

-He mentions $900 million in CapEx expenditures being cut from park projects, citing several of the Epcot and WDW announcements. Mary Poppins, Spaceship Earth, RoL, etc.

- JH reaffirms that Splash is “not going away tomorrow” despite the fact the Splash announcement was an apparent attempt at positive spin/PR the day after the announcement of the delayed Disneyland opening.

- In mocking them MK Briar Patch eBay resellers, JH noted that the current iteration of Splash Mountain will be staying until at least 2022 (or later) and that there will be an opportunity to buy “going away merchandise” similar to GMR’s “final cut” merch event at DHS.

- Talked about the company stock taking a hit amidst COVID. Particularly as major tent pole films like Mulan and Black Widow may be further delayed as movie theaters won’t open until possibly mid 2021.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Man, people are softer than Charmin Ultra these days.

Being affected by suicide doesn’t make one soft. It’s a real, tragic thing that affects not only the victim, but their family members and friends.

As someone who had a friend who took his own life, I can say that suicide is a touchy subject that should be taken seriously. I’m not advocating for the removal of the hanging body in Mansion and would be hurt to see it go. However, the topic of suicide is serious and should be respected in discussions regarding mental health.

 

[EagleScout610]

Jim Hill has yet another new podcast out (Centered around merchandise). Kind of a nothing-burger but a few nuggets reaffirming some of the information we have heard from both him other sources including @TP2000:

Take with the usual grain of salt:

-He mentions $900 million in CapEx expenditures being cut from park projects, citing several of the Epcot and WDW announcements. Mary Poppins, Spaceship Earth, RoL, etc.

- JH reaffirms that Splash is “not going away tomorrow” despite the fact the Splash announcement was an apparent attempt at positive spin/PR the day after the announcement of the delayed Disneyland opening.

- In mocking them MK Briar Patch eBay resellers, JH noted that the current iteration of Splash Mountain will be staying until at least 2022 (or later) and that there will be an opportunity to buy “going away merchandise” similar to GMR’s “final cut” merch event at DHS.

- Talked about the company stock taking a hit amidst COVID. Particularly as major tent pole films like Mulan and Black Widow may be further delayed as movie theaters won’t open until possibly mid 2021.

2022 for which version?

 

[PiratesMansion]

Man, people are softer than Charmin Ultra these days.

Yeesh. I'm in favor of keeping the scene as is, but if you had someone close to you commit suicide you might be a little upset too at the cavalier attitude of such depictions.

Being upset about suicide in that context is a 100% valid feeling/response.

 

[mickEblu]

Being affected by suicide doesn’t make one soft. It’s a real, tragic thing that affects not only the victim, but their family members and friends.

As someone who had a friend who took his own life, I can say that suicide is a touchy subject that should be taken seriously. I’m not advocating for the removal of the hanging body in Mansion and would be hurt to see it go. However, the topic of suicide is serious and should be respected in discussions regarding mental health.

I’m talking about people not being able to separate fantasy/ fiction on rides and movies from real life. People are soft these days. I’ll say it again for the people in the back.

 

[BuzzedPotatoHead89]

2022 for which version?

He doesn’t specify. But since the reference is tied to how early in development the overall project is, and to provide for ample merchandising opportunity, I’d speculate either/both.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I’m talking about people not being able to separate fantasy/ fiction on rides and movies from real life. People are soft these days. I’ll say it again for the people in the back.

You can shout louder for those in the back, but fantasy and reality are not always two separate things and sometimes are not far removed from each other.

 

[SuddenStorm]

I’m talking about people not being able to separate fantasy/ fiction on rides and movies from real life. People are soft these days. I’ll say it again for the people in the back.

Excellent point! Obviously, most topics could be considered sensitive depending on one's own background/past experiences- and while we shouldn't make light of serious topics it's important to understand the difference between fantasy and reality.

Millions have died in car crashes- yet we have children driving the Autopia.

Alcoholism is a serious issue that has contributed to death, the separation of families, and ruined many lives- yet it's depicted in Pirates of the Caribbean.

The family members of astronauts who passed while in Space might not find Space Mountain fun, but instead a chilling reminder of how a loved one was lost.

Or what about the family members of those who have actually died while at Disneyland? I imagine a trip on the Columbia or a ride on Big Thunder or the Matterhorn is a very sensitive issue for them.

And every single one of these hypothetical situations is valid and something that should be considered. But in the case of Mansion, it's a ride that deals with the occult, the macabre, and the afterlife- and the scene with the hanging corpse is far from 'funny' but is instead meant to be a terrifying and intense moment in the attraction, a counter to the comedy that comes later.

 

[mickEblu]

You can shout louder for those in the back, but fantasy and reality are not always two separate things and sometimes are not far removed from each other.

And what does this have to do with the Haunted Mansion and how it can impact people?

 

[Sharon&Susan]

If they take out the hanging man in the Haunted Mansion, I feel like its fair to take out any of the numerous suicide jokes with Moe in the Simpsons, a show which is always presented on the top of Disney+'s homepage.