Tiana's Bayou Adventure: Disneyland Watch & Discussion

[Brer Oswald]

An "insider" (no idea how reliable they are) mentioned it being removed due to being a potential "lynching reference".

I’m not aware of an insider saying it. If it was my thread, I’m not an insider.

 

[1HAPPYGHOSTHOST]

I’m not necessarily saying you’re “wrong” here, but to be honest the American parks beat TDR every day of the week when it comes to the classic Disney elements of charm and park atmosphere/ambience imo.

Something I was thinking about yesterday at the park is that, if you judge just based off attractions, then Tokyo is the best resort in the world right now (Tokyo has the best versions of a lot of classic Disney attractions and also almost perfect attraction maintenance standards)

But Tokyo is actually in the lower half of Disney parks when it comes to atmosphere and ambience (speaking mostly about castle parks here). TDL’s land design is honestly just kind of bad (with few exceptions) I feel like people don’t discuss that enough. A lot of the lands consist of big empty stretches of concrete without much else going on and not much attempt is made to differentiate the lands beyond the color of the concrete changing.

As I get older I’ve noticed my enjoyment of the parks is starting to shift significantly from attractions to atmosphere. I enjoy just being at the parks, sitting down and watching the riverboat go by etc and there a lot of Disney parks that do that better than Tokyo. A lot of the attractions have a “been there done that” feeling for me now having ridden them so many times over so many years.

Disneyland has something the foreign parks will never have..soul. It was built not to make money but to see if it could be built. The other parks were to make a corporate product. But not Disneyland. This is where it is unique. It was someone's vision. Their dream. Their hope. Walt and the Imagineers put soo much of themselves into the original park that you can feel their presence there to this day. There are intangibles in Disneyland you can feel that no other park has. To me that is why Disneyland will always be the best park.

 

[mickEblu]

I’m not necessarily saying you’re “wrong” here, but to be honest the American parks beat TDR every day of the week when it comes to the classic Disney elements of charm and park atmosphere/ambience imo.

Something I was thinking about yesterday at the park is that, if you judge just based off attractions, then Tokyo is the best resort in the world right now (Tokyo has the best versions of a lot of classic Disney attractions and also almost perfect attraction maintenance standards)

But Tokyo is actually in the lower half of Disney parks when it comes to atmosphere and ambience (speaking mostly about castle parks here). TDL’s land design is honestly just kind of bad (with few exceptions) I feel like people don’t discuss that enough. A lot of the lands consist of big empty stretches of concrete without much else going on and not much attempt is made to differentiate the lands beyond the color of the concrete changing.

As I get older I’ve noticed my enjoyment of the parks is starting to shift significantly from attractions to atmosphere. I enjoy just being at the parks, sitting down and watching the riverboat go by etc and there a lot of Disney parks that do that better than Tokyo. A lot of the attractions have a “been there done that” feeling for me now having ridden them so many times over so many years.

I don’t doubt that Disneyland is more charming as they crammed a whole lot of charm in there in its first 40 years. I’m talking about the last 20 years and more importantly how they are operating and treating the parks recently. DLR is declining by degrees every year and TDR only gets stronger.

Yeah TDL to me in terms of atmosphere doesn’t look nearly as charming as DL but again I’m taking about now and the decisions that have been made in the last 20 years.

 

[SuddenStorm]

Just found this on youtube. Kind of a interesting idea of where the supposed ride scenes will be.

That's not a first look!

 

[PiratesMansion]

I’m not necessarily saying you’re “wrong” here, but to be honest the American parks beat TDR every day of the week when it comes to the classic Disney elements of charm and park atmosphere/ambience imo.

Something I was thinking about yesterday at the park is that, if you judge just based off attractions, then Tokyo is the best resort in the world right now (Tokyo has the best versions of a lot of classic Disney attractions and also almost perfect attraction maintenance standards)

But Tokyo is actually in the lower half of Disney parks when it comes to atmosphere and ambience (speaking mostly about castle parks here). TDL’s land design is honestly just kind of bad (with few exceptions) I feel like people don’t discuss that enough. A lot of the lands consist of big empty stretches of concrete without much else going on and not much attempt is made to differentiate the lands beyond the color of the concrete changing.

As I get older I’ve noticed my enjoyment of the parks is starting to shift significantly from attractions to atmosphere. I enjoy just being at the parks, sitting down and watching the riverboat go by etc and there a lot of Disney parks that do that better than Tokyo. A lot of the attractions have a “been there done that” feeling for me now having ridden them so many times over so many years.

Well, sure, the American castle parks are designed better than TDL. So is DLP. HKDL is significantly more charming and prettier, though I don't know if I'd go so far as to say its better designed as a whole. I don't think anyone can fault the atmosphere of TDS.

I'd say, though, that the combination of TDL's attraction lineup, maintenance, CMs, and entertainment creates something that works better in person than it does on paper and easily overcomes its weaker aspects.

Vs. Magic Kingdom, which is absolutely better designed than TDL and has better bones, but stumbles at actually delivering that quality experience in the present day.

I'd take the former every day of the week.

 

[No Name]

If each ride needs to sell toys to pull its own weight, say goodbye to many classics. That is the direction Disney is headed in and it's sad to see fans defend it IMO.

It doesn’t matter whether fans defend it or not because arguing in favor of a strategy that makes them less money will never work. Perhaps the problem is not that non-IP-based attractions fail to sell merch, perhaps it’s that Disney does a poor job selling merch for non-IP-based attractions.

 

[SuddenStorm]

It doesn’t matter whether fans defend it or not because arguing in favor of a strategy that makes them less money will never work. Perhaps the problem is not non-IP-based attractions failing to sell merch, perhaps it’s that Disney could do a much better job selling merch for non-IP-based attractions.

Not necessarily. Individual attractions often have a direct impact on overall guest satisfaction, customer retention, and attendance as a whole. Each of these directly impacts ticket revenue as well as merchandise and hotel revenue.

For example, on days when a major attraction isn't operating guest satisfaction scores are typically lower. This directly impacts a customer's willingness to spend money on merchandise and food. In addition, busy days with frequent attraction breakdowns where the fireworks get cancelled directly correlates with the amount of theft in the parks, since customers feel that they're 'owed' something by Disney for a less than magical day. Guests that watch Fantasmic! and/or the fireworks typically rate their park visit higher, and are more likely to return. Basically, there's far more factors than simply being able to sell toys based on an attraction- and nostalgia/the attraction lineup plays a huge part in a guest's willingness to attend the park and spend money.

 

[No Name]

Not necessarily. Individual attractions often have a direct impact on overall guest satisfaction, customer retention, and attendance as a whole. Each of these directly impacts ticket revenue as well as merchandise and hotel revenue.

For example, on days when Space Mountain isn't operating guest satisfaction scores are typically lower. This directly impacts a customer's willingness to spend money on merchandise and food. In addition, busy days with frequent attraction breakdowns where the fireworks get cancelled directly correlates with the amount of theft in the parks, since customers feel that they're 'owed' something by Disney for a less than magical day. Guests that watch Fantasmic! and/or the fireworks typically rate their park visit higher, and are more likely to return. Basically, there's far more factors than simply being able to sell toys based on an attraction- and nostalgia/the attraction lineup plays a huge part in a guest's willingness to attend the park and spend money.

Sure I agree in part, but I’m not the one that needs to be convinced. Maybe if they understood their business better they’d be able to sell attraction merch.

 

[SuddenStorm]

Sure I agree in part, but I’m not the one that needs to be convinced. Maybe if they understood their business better they’d be able to sell attraction merch.

I think Disney is starting to come around to the idea that nostalgia for attractions can be monetized- the influx of Space Mountain, Peoplemover, Mr. Toad, vin shirts are a huge step in the right direction.

Personally I'd like to see the Olszewski line of attraction models expanded- Space Mountain, small world, Splash, and the Matterhorn would be naturals.

 

[SplashGhost]

As for me, I felt Disney was heading down a bad patch with decision making after Tower of
Terror and Pixar Pier. Now that it's evident they are destroying classic Disneyland attractions, I'm out.

Not even a tough choice for me or like ripping off a band-aid, the park has made it clear they want to replace the reasons I visit with inferior products, instead of adding new things.

I will always have the memories at least.

Chapek doesn't understand that nostalgia is the number 1 selling point that the Disney Parks have over other theme parks. If it wasn't for the comforting nostalgia from classic attractions, then the Disney Parks wouldn't be that special and many people couldn't justify paying the highest prices in the industry for them.

I expect Haunted Mansion to go the way of Pirates where they just continually "plus" (diminish) it. They already did so with "Constance".

Rumor is the hanging ghost host is being removed
from Florida and Disneyland. Florida's doesn't have the stretching room operating, when it reopens it's likely the ghost host is gone.

Who knows what will be deemed pseudo-faux offensive in the future.

Well, it sounds like Disney is really out to destroy everything I love this year. I am worried about what changes the Mansion will have once the Disneyland version comes back from refurbishment. Disney has a track record of making things worse instead of better. Pirates manages to get worse and worse after every major change.

I realized that today is both Disneyland and Splash Mountain's anniversary. It is very 2020 that Splash Mountain isn't operating on what might be its last anniversary.

In an alternate timeline, I would be at Disneyland today riding Splash Mountain. Its fate will have been secured for many years to come and it will have come back from a refurbishment that fixed all animatronics and effects, and the ride would be in the best shape it had been in for several years.

 

[PiratesMansion]

The above post reminded me of a particular paragraph from Passport2Dreams' end of decade WDW retrospective, published in January of this year. For those unfamiliar, Passport2Dreams is a WDW history blog, and always a great read. This paragraph states:

"I'm wondering what Disney is going to do when the market declines again. Tourism has always been a boom and bust industry, and attendance has dropped precipitously at the start of the 1980s, the 1990s, and the 2000s. We're very much waiting for the other shoe to drop, and when that happens Disney has always had a robust local market to appeal to in the past. Given the discounts I've seen being marketed locally and the sudden lifting of summer blackouts last year when Toy Story Land was not enough the entice visitors to Orlando, I'm starting to wonder if that market is still going to be there for them when they need it. I can't speak for everyone, but when it came time to renew my pass several years ago, I decided a Nintendo Switch was more appealing. And I have Disney posters on my wall. Disney's core product is nostalgia, and you can't have nostalgia when you've torn out a lot of what makes people nostalgic."

Many people scoffed at this viewpoint back in January, but I do think there's something to it. When 4/5 of Disneyland's opening areas in 1955 clearly were designed to evoke it, and has gone on to affect so much of what the company has built since then, that's not an aspect of the park experience that can just be tossed aside as though it's nothing.

There will always be people chomping at the bit to include the latest and greatest, but it needs to be a balance between the old and the new. If too much of what makes the place special is kicked to the curb, that significantly alters the appeal of the park in a way that the modern WDC doesn't always seem to understand.

 

[Brer Oswald]

The above post reminded me of a particular paragraph from Passport2Dreams' end of decade WDW retrospective, published in January of this year. For those unfamiliar, Passport2Dreams is a WDW history blog, and always a great read. This paragraph states:

"I'm wondering what Disney is going to do when the market declines again. Tourism has always been a boom and bust industry, and attendance has dropped precipitously at the start of the 1980s, the 1990s, and the 2000s. We're very much waiting for the other shoe to drop, and when that happens Disney has always had a robust local market to appeal to in the past. Given the discounts I've seen being marketed locally and the sudden lifting of summer blackouts last year when Toy Story Land was not enough the entice visitors to Orlando, I'm starting to wonder if that market is still going to be there for them when they need it. I can't speak for everyone, but when it came time to renew my pass several years ago, I decided a Nintendo Switch was more appealing. And I have Disney posters on my wall. Disney's core product is nostalgia, and you can't have nostalgia when you've torn out a lot of what makes people nostalgic."

Many people scoffed at this viewpoint back in January, but I do think there's something to it. When 4/5 of Disneyland's opening areas in 1955 clearly were designed to evoke it, and has gone on to affect so much of what the company has built since then, that's not an aspect of the park experience that can just be tossed aside as though it's nothing.

There will always be people chomping at the bit to include the latest and greatest, but it needs to be a balance between the old and the new. If too much of what makes the place special is kicked to the curb, that significantly alters the appeal of the park in a way that the modern WDC doesn't always seem to understand.

I think losing Splash isn’t enough for some people to drop Disney. But we’re certainty getting to the point where “enough is enough”. I think they could maybe get away with Big Thunder, and some modifications to Small World. But they’re going to have to tread really lightly when it comes to their remaining classics. Pirates, Mansion, Small World, Space Mountain. If they replace any of them outright, they’re gonna wish they didn’t.

Me personally? I don’t care anymore. Splash was the one that was always going to break me. Granted, my home parks are in Florida. Splash has been the draw of my last several trips. With it gone, I don’t feel too enticed to make any return visits after my passes are used up. There’s just nothing exclusive that’s worth a multi thousand dollar trip. Especially not the “Future Epcot”.

Might try to make it out to Disneyland again, provided Pirates, Small World And Fantasyland are still intact.

 

[mickEblu]

Disney's core product is nostalgia, and you can't have nostalgia when you've torn out a lot of what makes people nostalgic."

When it comes to Splash it’s so beloved/ iconic and had been around for almost half of the parks life. At this point it ranks anywhere from peoples favorite attraction to a notch below the likes of POTC/ Mansion. With this move they are eliminating a hefty chunk of that core nostalgia. Really curious to see how this plays out. If people move on like it’s no big deal then I’ll probably just succumb to the belief that pretty much anything outside POTC/ Mansion are expendable. And maybe not even them.

Who’s quote is that?

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

Superstar Limo becoming a Monsters Incorporated ride was the point where I had to draw the line.

 

[PiratesMansion]

When it comes to Splash it’s so beloved/ iconic and had been around for almost half of the parks life. At this point it ranks anywhere from peoples favorite attraction to a notch below the likes of POTC/ Mansion. With this move they are eliminating a hefty chunk of that core nostalgia. Really curious to see how this plays out. If people move on like it’s no big deal then I’ll probably just succumb to the belief that pretty much anything outside POTC/ Mansion are expendable. And maybe not even them.

Who’s quote is that?

Foxxy of the Passport2Dreams blog.

 

[Brer Oswald]

When it comes to Splash it’s so beloved/ iconic and had been around for almost half of the parks life. At this point it ranks anywhere from peoples favorite attraction to a notch below the likes of POTC/ Mansion. With this move they are eliminating a hefty chunk of that core nostalgia. Really curious to see how this plays out. If people move on like it’s no big deal then I’ll probably just succumb to the belief that pretty much anything outside POTC/ Mansion are expendable. And maybe not even them.

Who’s quote is that?

If you were to define nostalgia with a Disney Song, it’d Zipadeedoodah, right up there beside When You Wish Upon a Star. I’ve known that song as far back as I can remember, way before I knew what a Brer Rabbit or a Splash Mountain even was. Then, I learned the song was in that big scary ride I always saw during my trips. Imagine how floored I was.

The fact that this song of wonder has been turned into a “symbol of hate” by Twitter “activists” has me equally amused, angered, and depressed. Seriously. I can’t decide if it’s hilarious or disappointing.

 

[SplashGhost]

The above post reminded me of a particular paragraph from Passport2Dreams' end of decade WDW retrospective, published in January of this year. For those unfamiliar, Passport2Dreams is a WDW history blog, and always a great read. This paragraph states:

"I'm wondering what Disney is going to do when the market declines again. Tourism has always been a boom and bust industry, and attendance has dropped precipitously at the start of the 1980s, the 1990s, and the 2000s. We're very much waiting for the other shoe to drop, and when that happens Disney has always had a robust local market to appeal to in the past. Given the discounts I've seen being marketed locally and the sudden lifting of summer blackouts last year when Toy Story Land was not enough the entice visitors to Orlando, I'm starting to wonder if that market is still going to be there for them when they need it. I can't speak for everyone, but when it came time to renew my pass several years ago, I decided a Nintendo Switch was more appealing. And I have Disney posters on my wall. Disney's core product is nostalgia, and you can't have nostalgia when you've torn out a lot of what makes people nostalgic."

Many people scoffed at this viewpoint back in January, but I do think there's something to it. When 4/5 of Disneyland's opening areas in 1955 clearly were designed to evoke it, and has gone on to affect so much of what the company has built since then, that's not an aspect of the park experience that can just be tossed aside as though it's nothing.

There will always be people chomping at the bit to include the latest and greatest, but it needs to be a balance between the old and the new. If too much of what makes the place special is kicked to the curb, that significantly alters the appeal of the park in a way that the modern WDC doesn't always seem to understand.

As an older millennial, I really feel like Chapek is going after things that were iconic to my generation. It is feels like Chapek is okay with losing this age group to chase the Zoomer Instagram Influencer group. People like me have stayed with the Disney Parks for so long because of deep personal connections and nostalgia. I don't love the parks because they are trendy or they get me likes on social media, I love Disneyland for what it and its attractions mean to me on a deep personal level.

I'm sure there are a lot of other fans out there like me, and they risk losing a lot of the loyal long term fans with decisions that remove the nostalgia from Disneyland.

 

[Brer Oswald]

As an older millennial, I really feel like Chapek is going after things that were iconic to my generation. It is feels like Chapek is okay with losing this age group to chase the Zoomer Instagram Influencer group. People like me have stayed with the Disney Parks for so long because of deep personal connections and nostalgia. I don't love the parks because they are trendy or they get me likes on social media, I love Disneyland for what it and its attractions mean to me on a deep personal level.

I'm sure there are a lot of other fans out there like me, and they risk losing a lot of the loyal long term fans with decisions that remove the nostalgia from Disneyland.

He certainly isn’t landing this Zoomer. And all my fellow Zoomer friends who I’ve recommended the Disney Parks to for years, defending them above all else? I’ll be telling them to go to Universal instead when Super Nintendo World opens.

Nothing personal, just better bang for your buck over there.

 

[mickEblu]

As an older millennial, I really feel like Chapek is going after things that were iconic to my generation. It is feels like Chapek is okay with losing this age group to chase the Zoomer Instagram Influencer group. People like me have stayed with the Disney Parks for so long because of deep personal connections and nostalgia. I don't love the parks because they are trendy or they get me likes on social media, I love Disneyland for what it and its attractions mean to me on a deep personal level.

I'm sure there are a lot of other fans out there like me, and they risk losing a lot of the loyal long term fans with decisions that remove the nostalgia from Disneyland.

But Josh says we’ll love it because it’s more Contemporary

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

Disney has targeted all my favorite 90s attractions. It's as though they see this era as entirely expendable.