Tiana's Bayou Adventure: Disneyland Watch & Discussion

[mickEblu]

They have a point that I agree with. Things will continuously be taken away, some people will be upset, sad, angry, etc., some won’t care, Disney will put in new things, people will continue to come, and Disney will continue to make money.

It is a cycle.

Thats obvious. However, as they say, the devil is in the details. How many people could possibly be upset about losing a pile of dirt for the Matterhorn? 3-4 people? My point is the changes Of the past were almost always an object improvement and were met with way less resistance than today. To compare the changes of the past like the Eeyore parking lot going away for Indiana Jones or Holiday Hill to the Matterhorn to the changes of today is ridiculous. First of all, it takes time for nostalgia to build. Nobody was nostalgic over losing a pile of dirt four years after the park opened. We now have a park that is 65 years old with all the memories and classic attractions that come with it. We don’t get the slam dunk objective improvements anymore. Now we get cheap overlays and disregard for thematic integrity to shove in the latest IP.

And even if people were upset about losing Fantasyland 1.0 I’m sure the vast majority were pleasantly surprised when they stepped into Fantasyland 2.0. Unlike today where people are mad before and after they see something like Pixar Pier. One of the only good examples the other side of the argument has is Mine Train thru Nature’s Wonderland but even people who were against that would probably say it was replaced by something great even if still disappointed.

Granted I understand the constraints Disney faces now with DL. They re running out of space and we are living in a different era but it still doesn’t excuse most of the recent bad changes because as we can see with the OLC- it can still one done right.

 

[SuddenStorm]

Thats obvious. However, as they say, the devil is in the details. How many people could possibly be upset about losing a pile of dirt for the Matterhorn? 3-4 people? My point is the changes Of the past were almost always an object improvement and were met with way less resistance than today. To compare the changes of the past like the Eeyore parking lot going away for Indiana Jones or Holiday Hill to the Matterhorn to the changes of today is ridiculous. First of all, it takes time for nostalgia to build. Nobody was nostalgic over losing a pile of dirt four years after the park opened. We now have a park that is 65 years old with all the memories and classic attractions that come with it. We don’t get the slam dunk objective improvements anymore. Now we get cheap overlays and disregard for thematic integrity to shove in the latest IP.

And even if people were upset about losing Fantasyland 1.0 I’m sure the vast majority were pleasantly surprised when they stepped into Fantasyland 2.0. Unlike today where people are mad before and after they see something like Pixar Pier. One of the only good examples the other side of the argument has is Mine Train thru Nature’s Wonderland but even people who were against that would probably say it was replaced by something great even if still disappointed.

Granted I understand the constraints Disney faces now with DL. They re running out of space and we are living in a different era but it still doesn’t excuse most of the recent bad changes.

Even the 'lack of space' argument doesn't hold merit when their new additions are as lackluster as Galaxy's Edge. And as long as the Star Wars Launch Bay exists inside Disneyland, no other attraction should be touched since that's far and away the biggest waste of space in the park.

 

[mickEblu]

Even the 'lack of space' argument doesn't hold merit when their new additions are as lackluster as Galaxy's Edge. And as long as the Star Wars Launch Bay exists inside Disneyland, no other attraction should be touched since that's far and away the biggest waste of space in the park.

Agreed. Throw Fantasyland theatre in there too.

Exactly, 14 acres for what?

 

[SuddenStorm]

Agreed. Throw Fantasyland theatre in there too.

Exactly, 14 acres for what?

Imagine if they built a Tiana dark ride where the Fantasyland theater is, purpose built from the ground up. And then built a Tiana's restaurant from the ground up as well, sort of a Disneyland version of 'Be Our Guest'. That whole area there could be completely reimagined, and it could be really delightful if done properly and provide a nice contrast from the rest of Fantasyland.

Disneyland's New Orleans Square is very tastefully done in its facade and execution- I don't think Frog Mountain will fit in with what they built in the '60s anyways, nor would it fit with Critter Country.

 

[mickEblu]

Imagine if they built a Tiana dark ride where the Fantasyland theater is, purpose built from the ground up. And then built a Tiana's restaurant from the ground up as well, sort of a Disneyland version of 'Be Our Guest'. That whole area there could be completely reimagined, and it could be really delightful if done properly and provide a nice contrast from the rest of Fantasyland.

Disneyland's New Orleans Square is very tastefully done in its facade and execution- I don't think Frog Mountain will fit in with what they built in the '60s anyways, nor would it fit with Critter Country.

This is exactly the difference between then and now Disneyland. But people want throw out ridiculous blanket statements and pretend everything is black and white.

 

[Model3 McQueen]

This is exactly the difference between then and now Disneyland. But people want throw out ridiculous blanket statements and pretend everything is black and white.

And seeing Josh just do it as well, it's kinda heartbreaking not gonna lie.

 

[SuddenStorm]

And seeing Josh just do it as well, it's kinda heartbreaking not gonna lie.

Josh is required too both for internal political reasons, and as the face of Parks and Resorts. Splash's change is a huge announcement and a huge deal for the Parks division- and externally it has to look like everyone at Disney is 100% on board.

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

Whenever Disney boasts about their crap, they sound like a more polished PR version of a certain prominent person, who is also a terrible robot at WDW.

"Our rides are just the best. Really great rides."

 

[PiratesMansion]

"Hot takes" based on the past couple of pages:
1. I don't think the 97 POTC changes were entirely bad. I was fine with most of what was there originally (and still exists overseas), BUT the original dialogue from the Pooped Pirate has, in my view, not aged well at all. That is the ONE change in all of Pirate-dom that I wholeheartedly endorse.
2. Technically they got rid of the Saucers originally because they were a PITA to deal with. They didn't have the technology to build Space yet when they yanked the Saucers out, which is why it wasn't actually built for around ten years later.
3. Indeed, people rail against changes and tend to still come anyway, and they've been doing it about as long as the park's been around. As much as we like to think there's a lot of black and white objectivity when it comes to Disneyland, there really isn't. Of course, some ideas tend to derive more consensus than others, and some Disneyland attractions are more loved than others, but that doesn't necessarily mean there is one universal truth that everyone will agree upon. Each person has their own takes on any given thing/situation that may or may not line up with our own personal takes or the general consensus (one example: though I preferred CS to Incredicoaster, and there's nothing objectively wrong with CS as built in my view, I just never cared for it. It was smooth, fast, thematically consistent, and fun, but just never resonated with me. Not the ride's fault-just my personal, subjective feeling). We as humans just tend to be really bad at sorting out our own biases (but we ALL have them), and tend to assume that if we believe something it must therefore be the absolute truth. But most things, frankly, are subjective.
4. One exception: Pixar Pier is objectively trash

 

[mickEblu]

Watched a ride through of WDWs Splash and a couple things stood out to me. Is it just the 1 (or maybe 2) extra scenes with Brer Fox and Bear lurking behind Brer Rabbit that really make the story that much greater for everyone?

Also DLs flume layout works harmoniously with the songs. At DL, the drops cue the next song. At WDW you just float past one scene where they re singing How Do You and the next (3 feet later with no real transition) they are singing Laughing Place. Then you go down the roller coaster drop and they re still singing Laughin place with no real change in tone. Then you see Brer Fox catch Brer Rabbit but go back to happy birds singing Laughing Place again. Then no Burrows Lament and straight to the vultures/ lift hill. It had been a while since I’ve seen a WDW splash ride through and I’m Even more confused on why people think it’s hands down better than DLs version. Is it the brighter lights and the fact that you don’t get as wet? There is a much better flow at DL. Splash at DL is far superior musically, emotionally and physically and all of the elements work in unison. If there is a version to keep stateside, it’s the one in Anaheim.

 

[SplashGhost]

Honestly I find it so sad that this is the case for me. With the now completion of Star Wars Land I have zero projects I'm looking forward to. Yet I have tons of worry.

I feel that at some point Disneyland / DCA will face an identity crisis (they are well on their way to this) and will have to make efforts to tread back on the changes they made.

Look at Knotts who turned into coaster city for a long time and has spent the last decade changing course in support of their older strengths such as the log ride, rapids, Bear-Y Tales, and Ghost Town.

I hope Disney hits rock bottom soon as it's the only way they will start reverting their current decision making methodology.

DCA already has an identity crisis. What makes it even worse is they pretty much fixed DCA in 2012, and then they decide to throw in Guardians, Avengers Campus, and Pixar Pier. Guardians is an enjoyable ride on its own, but Tower of Terror was one of the thematic anchors for the park's theme. Chapek Era DCA is basically just a place with some rides, it doesn't really have any strong thematic identity.

 

[Brer Panther]

Watched a ride through of WDWs Splash and a couple things stood out to me. Is it just the 1 (or maybe 2) extra scenes with Brer Fox and Bear lurking behind Brer Rabbit that really make the story that much greater for everyone?

Also DLs flume layout works harmoniously with the songs. At DL, the drops cue the next song. At WDW you just float past one scene where they re singing How Do You and the next (3 feet later with no real transition) they are singing Laughing Place. Then you go down the roller coaster drop and they re still singing Laughin place with no real change in tone. Then you see Brer Fox catch Brer Rabbit but go back to happy birds singing Laughing Place again. Then no Burrows Lament and straight to the vultures/ lift hill. It had been a while since I’ve seen a WDW splash ride through and I’m Even more confused on why people think it’s hands down better than DLs version. Is it the brighter lights and the fact that you don’t get as wet? There is a much better flow at DL. Splash at DL is far superior musically, emotionally and physically and all of the elements work in unison. If there is a version to keep stateside, it’s the one in Anaheim.

I do agree that the sudden change of music to "Laughin' Place" before you get to the actual Laughin' Place is awkward, but I feel the added stuff with Brer Fox and Brer Bear lurking behind Brer Rabbit makes the story a bit easier to understand (in the Laughin' Place, the gag isn't that Brer Fox captures Brer Rabbit then and there, it's that he's ABOUT TO catch him but he's too busy laughing at Brer Bear to notice). And I really don't like the Burrow's Lament scene, it strikes me as kind of pointless.

Really, with all this talk of which version is superior (I think it's the Florida one, for what it's worth), can't we all just agree that both versions of Splash Mountain are great?

 

[Californian Elitist]

Thats obvious. However, as they say, the devil is in the details. How many people could possibly be upset about losing a pile of dirt for the Matterhorn? 3-4 people? My point is the changes Of the past were almost always an object improvement and were met with way less resistance than today. To compare the changes of the past like the Eeyore parking lot going away for Indiana Jones or Holiday Hill to the Matterhorn to the changes of today is ridiculous. First of all, it takes time for nostalgia to build. Nobody was nostalgic over losing a pile of dirt four years after the park opened. We now have a park that is 65 years old with all the memories and classic attractions that come with it. We don’t get the slam dunk objective improvements anymore. Now we get cheap overlays and disregard for thematic integrity to shove in the latest IP.

And even if people were upset about losing Fantasyland 1.0 I’m sure the vast majority were pleasantly surprised when they stepped into Fantasyland 2.0. Unlike today where people are mad before and after they see something like Pixar Pier. One of the only good examples the other side of the argument has is Mine Train thru Nature’s Wonderland but even people who were against that would probably say it was replaced by something great even if still disappointed.

Granted I understand the constraints Disney faces now with DL. They re running out of space and we are living in a different era but it still doesn’t excuse most of the recent bad changes.

The thing is, neither of us know how people felt decades ago as Disneyland continued to evolve. It sounds like your opinion is based on your own feelings and how you would personally react to said previous changes.

People in the future could easily say this era received adequate changes. What you said about the parking garage, Matterhorn land, Fantasyland 1.0, etc. could easily be said about SW:GE, for example. It only replaced a petting zoo and restaurant, so who cares? Same for ToT. They created an entire Marvel land, so it wasn’t a bad choice to change it to Guardians.

It’s subjective.

 

[mickEblu]

The thing is, neither of us know how people felt decades ago as Disneyland continued to evolve. It sounds like your opinion is based on your own feelings and how you would personally react to said previous changes.

People in the future could easily say this era received adequate changes. What you said about the parking garage, Matterhorn land, Fantasyland 1.0, etc. could easily be said about SW:GE, for example. It only replaced a petting zoo and restaurant, so who cares? Same for ToT. They created an entire Marvel land, so it wasn’t a bad choice to change it to Guardians.

It’s subjective.

Ok we can’t make any “assumptions“ or use common sense. Mods please put a sticky note on this and let’s just end all discussions because ultimately everything is subjective and we know nothing.

So if everything is subjective then it doesn’t even matter that I wasn’t there right? Even if I would have been there my opinion that Matterhorn was a good substitution for Holiday Hill is still subjective.

No offense @raven24 but I feel when people pull the “everything is subjective” card it’s basically like waving the white flag. Is it my subjective opinion if I say the Holocaust was bad? After all I wasn’t there.

 

[mickEblu]

I do agree that the sudden change of music to "Laughin' Place" before you get to the actual Laughin' Place is awkward, but I feel the added stuff with Brer Fox and Brer Bear lurking behind Brer Rabbit makes the story a bit easier to understand (in the Laughin' Place, the gag isn't that Brer Fox captures Brer Rabbit then and there, it's that he's ABOUT TO catch him but he's too busy laughing at Brer Bear to notice). And I really don't like the Burrow's Lament scene, it strikes me as kind of pointless.

Really, with all this talk of which version is superior (I think it's the Florida one, for what it's worth), can't we all just agree that both versions of Splash Mountain are great?

Yeah I mean I don’t really have a dog in this current fight. I’d rather one stay than none. But it seems to be so unanimous that WDWs is better and I’m over here kind of scratching my head on why.

 

[el_super]

Ok we can’t make any “assumptions“ or use common sense. Mods please put a sticky note on this and let’s just end all discussions because ultimately everything is subjective and we know nothing.

Common sense would tell us, that we won't know if the change to Princess and the Frog was a good business decision or not, until long after it has opened. You don't have to like that Splash Mountain is closing, but you don't have to start making wild assumptions about the long term health of the company and whether this was a good decision or not to validate those feelings.

Last night I had a rather timely chat with a friend about missing the old Star Tours. I was pretty attached to the old Star Tours and still think that it's the better show of the two, but there wasn't really anyone around at the time claiming that Star Tours didn't need to be updated. It was old, the film looked tired, the effects weren't all there, Paul Reubens was still persona-non-grata. It had some serious show problems. But here we are some 10 years later, the revamp seems successful enough and what case can I make for the old one being better than just pure nostalgia?

Eventually, if you stick around Disneyland long enough, you will see LOTS of things you love removed. It will happen, and there's nothing that will stop it. Maybe your husband proposed to you on the skyway? Maybe your kids liked to dance in the Parade of Dreams? Maybe your first job was working at the Rocket Rods with a lot of good friends. The only thing that stays consistent year after year is that changes will happen, and finding a way to accept those changes (even when you do not agree with them) just comes as part of being a fan.

 

[BasiltheBatLord]

Watched a ride through of WDWs Splash and a couple things stood out to me. Is it just the 1 (or maybe 2) extra scenes with Brer Fox and Bear lurking behind Brer Rabbit that really make the story that much greater for everyone?

Also DLs flume layout works harmoniously with the songs. At DL, the drops cue the next song. At WDW you just float past one scene where they re singing How Do You and the next (3 feet later with no real transition) they are singing Laughing Place. Then you go down the roller coaster drop and they re still singing Laughin place with no real change in tone. Then you see Brer Fox catch Brer Rabbit but go back to happy birds singing Laughing Place again. Then no Burrows Lament and straight to the vultures/ lift hill. It had been a while since I’ve seen a WDW splash ride through and I’m Even more confused on why people think it’s hands down better than DLs version. Is it the brighter lights and the fact that you don’t get as wet? There is a much better flow at DL. Splash at DL is far superior musically, emotionally and physically and all of the elements work in unison. If there is a version to keep stateside, it’s the one in Anaheim.

Since it's late at night and I'm bored I'll argue the case for the non-DL rides:

- The attraction is much slower in general, in DL you FLY through the scenes so fast it's easy to have no clue what's happening in the show scenes.
- An attempt was made in WDW and Tokyo to have B'rer Frog act as a narrator (basically acting as Uncle Remus) whether this was achieved or not is up for debate since he's hard to understand and you don't really see him beyond the first lift hill but it's an attempt regardless.
- IMO, the show scenes in WDW just look way better. Part of it is poor maintenence on DL's part, but a bigger part of it is it just looks like the WDW/Tokyo versions had a way bigger budget as well as more settled character designs (idk why they made B'rer Rabbit grey though). They really nailed the backgrounds in WDW with the sky background or projection or whatever that is. The inside of DL's mountain looks super dark and blurry while in WDW/Tokyo it's really bright and looks like a natural environment for the SotS characters. Some people would argue that the inside of a mountain is supposed to look dark which I guess I can understand but imo the scenes just look way better in the other attractions.
- WDW/Tokyo also has the million dollar bunny if you think that matters. I know most people just consider it a joke at this point.
- The music is a preference thing. Personally I think Splash fits fine in Fronteirland, better than Critter Country actually, but whatever. Burrow's Lament is definitely a plus though, it's kinda weird how they never replicated that scene at other attractions.

Tokyo has the best pacing of any of the attractions though. Tokyo's Splash is timed really well and most of the AA's actually wait for the log to pull up before they start giving their lines unlike DL and WDW where they're just endlessly spieling on a loop.

 

[mickEblu]

Common sense would tell us, that we won't know if the change to Princess and the Frog was a good business decision or not, until long after it has opened. You don't have to like that Splash Mountain is closing, but you don't have to start making wild assumptions about the long term health of the company and whether this was a good decision or not to validate those feelings.

Last night I had a rather timely chat with a friend about missing the old Star Tours. I was pretty attached to the old Star Tours and still think that it's the better show of the two, but there wasn't really anyone around at the time claiming that Star Tours didn't need to be updated. It was old, the film looked tired, the effects weren't all there, Paul Reubens was still persona-non-grata. It had some serious show problems. But here we are some 10 years later, the revamp seems successful enough and what case can I make for the old one being better than just pure nostalgia?

Eventually, if you stick around Disneyland long enough, you will see LOTS of things you love removed. It will happen, and there's nothing that will stop it. Maybe your husband proposed to you on the skyway? Maybe your kids liked to dance in the Parade of Dreams? Maybe your first job was working at the Rocket Rods with a lot of good friends. The only thing that stays consistent year after year is that changes will happen, and finding a way to accept those changes (even when you do not agree with them) just comes as part of being a fan.

I’m not starting off my day with you again. Lol. Also sorry about what I said yesterday. Not about the Contrarian part, the other part.

They aren’t wild assumptions though. Look at the changes the past few years. Yes nostalgia of course plays a part and sometimes we look back with Rose colored glasses but many changes are just objectively worse if one is a fan of themed entertainment.

 

[el_super]

They aren’t wild assumptions though. Look at the changes the past few years. Yes nostalgia of course plays a part and sometimes we look back with Rosie colored glasses but many changes are just objectively worse if one is a fan of themed entertainment.

Thank you for the apology. I still don't really see how you could objectively judge the value of a theme park attraction, so I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

 

[mickEblu]

so I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

I agree, sounds like a good idea to me.