Tiana's Bayou Adventure: Disneyland Watch & Discussion

[Brer Panther]

I would really like to hear why or how you might think Tiana is a weapon in this case. Does that mean she doesn't deserve an attraction in your opinion, or that they only picked her because she is black?

I'm not saying that Tiana doesn't deserve an attraction. It's just that, as I've said before, Disney brushed The Princess and the Frog off as a flop and basically ignored it until 2020. Somehow, I doubt they would suddenly do a 180 on it a decade later on their own accord. In addition, many people - most of them pro-rethemers - have claimed that this isn't about giving Tiana a ride but rather about getting rid of the Brers. Hence, The Princess and the Frog being used as a weapon.

And is that a bad thing, to give their only black princess a re-themed attraction to replace one which has racial controversy (controversy which has been confirmed by the fact that disney speaks its name less than Voldemort since the 1980's)?

Splash Mountain and Song of the South are not the same thing. Disney intentionally kept the film's problematic elements out of the ride to avoid having it offend people. The attraction was beloved until 2020, I never saw anyone dubbing it racist simply because it features the Brers until 2020. It's not like it featuring characters from Song of the South was such a well-kept secret.

Personally, I don't think it should matter that the ride features the Brers just so long as the ride itself is not racist. Nobody's asking for them to remove Mickey's Philharmagic from the parks over Fantasia's racist elements?

You can believe whatever you want to believe, that this is some conspiracy or something, doesn't make it true.

And you can believe that it's just a coincidence, but that doesn't make it true.

Somebody posts an idea for a Princess and the Frog retheme of Splash Mountain. People demand and start petitions for Splash Mountain to be rethemed to The Princess and the Frog. Disney announces that Splash Mountain is going to be rethemed to The Princess and the Frog - a movie that they dubbed such a flop that it wasn't worth making hand-drawn animated movies anymore. Of course people aren't going to believe it's just a coincidence.

At the time even the NY Times had reported that Disney had been working on the retheme of Splash for 5 years prior to the announcement, and that it was the PatF theme they decided on the year prior.

Disney could have been lying. I wouldn't put it past them. I'm not immediately going to assume that a company that films a movie near a concentration camp and launches a smear campaign against a puppeteer because he didn't like the way they were handling the Muppets is telling the truth over this.

If they really had been working on the retheme for five years, there's a pretty good chance that they would've figured out just how, exactly, they're going to pull it off. They clearly have not. Hence why the attraction still has not been shut down. And usually, when Disney is working on a new project, it gets leaked on this very website - we knew about Guardians of the Galaxy replacing the Tower of Terror and Universe of Energy, Mickey's Runaway Railway replacing the Great Movie Ride, and I believe Toy Story Land and Star Wars: Galaxy's Edge before they were officially announced. I don't recall seeing anyone mention anything about Splash Mountain being planned to be rethemed even when people on this site were talking about whether or not they SHOULD retheme it.

Also as has been stated here a couple times, people throw ideas around for retheming different attractions all the time and post them on the internet, even on this very site. Armchair Imagineering has become something of a common thing among Disney Parks Fans.

Yes, but very rarely do those ideas result in petitions being made to actually get that idea built. Frederick Chambers' idea got a ton of publicity for whatever reason. I posted my idea for a Muppets dark ride on Twitter and it didn't result in articles being made about it or anyone starting petitions for Disney to do it.

And you do realize that Frederick Chambers has actually been INTERVIEWED OVER DISNEY USING HIS IDEA, right? It's not like he's denying that he had anything to do with Splash Mountain being rethemed.

Not true, Tiana and Dr Facilier have both had a presence in the Parks at various times since the movie was released. So its not like its just some forgotten IP that was never used.

True, Tiana and Facilier have had a presence in the parks, but until now the only actual Princess and the Frog-based thing in the parks was the Tiana's Showboat Jubilee show (which I believe was done to promote the movie?). Kenai and Koda had a presence in the parks as meet-and-greet characters like Tiana, Naveen, Louis, and Dr. Facilier, but that doesn't mean Disney still didn't see Brother Bear as a flop or planned on doing more with the characters. Atlantis characters did meet-and-greets in the parks even after the movie underperformed. So did Treasure Planet characters.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Fantasia is not considered to be a racist movie overall, unlike Song of the South.

No comparison whatsoever.

 

[Brer Panther]

Fantasia is not considered to be a racist movie overall, unlike Song of the South.

No comparison whatsoever.

How about the shorts Mickey in Arabia and Mickey's Mellodrammer? Both are incredibly racist (I think the latter has Mickey doing blackface at one point!) but nobody is saying Mickey should be removed from the parks.

 

[Midwest Elitist]

How about the shorts Mickey in Arabia and Mickey's Mellodrammer? Both are incredibly racist (I think the latter has Mickey doing blackface at one point!) but nobody is saying Mickey should be removed from the parks.

Song of the South has two things against it:
-It is perceived as being racist. I disagree that it actually is, but things in the movie look terrible if you don't know the context.
-It is incredibly boring. Even if those Mickey shorts and Fantasia were perceived as being racist, they are actually entertaining throughout, much like Peter Pan.

 

[Californian Elitist]

How about the shorts Mickey in Arabia and Mickey's Mellodrammer? Both are incredibly racist (I think the latter has Mickey doing blackface at one point!) but nobody is saying Mickey should be removed from the parks.

You’re talking about shorts vs an entire film that has a long history of being a racist outcast.

Literally nothing else compares. Trying to compare anything in the Disney library to the infamy of Song of the South is a waste of time.

 

[CaptinEO]

Holy cow, people really must love the freaking brer bear and Brer fox here. You all must have tshirts and teddy bears and all sorts of stuff in your house about it.

Harmless, cute and beloved ride? Yes.
Comes from a racist source? Yes.
Disneys decision? Yes.
Does it make people sound racist who boycott something so stupid? Yes.

If you don’t want to go to Disney again for any reason that’s fine. But to say that you won’t ever go back because they’re changing a ride to celebrate a black princess in lieu of a ride theme which has anti-black ties, then you really need to think about your life so far.

I like the ride and have been going on it since I was little, "humans" arent even part of the ride, nor is "race".

You have to be demented in the head to go on this ride and think it has to do with anything racial.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I like the ride and have been going on it since I was little, "humans" arent even part of the ride, nor is "race".

You have to be demented in the head to go on this ride and think it has to do with anything racial.

They actually called the ride “harmless” and referred to the source as “racist.”

You misread the post.

 

[Midwest Elitist]

They actually called the ride “harmless” and referred to the source as “racist.”

You misread the post.

"Does it make people sound racist who boycott something so stupid? Yes."

"If you don’t want to go to Disney again for any reason that’s fine. But to say that you won’t ever go back because they’re changing a ride to celebrate a black princess in lieu of a ride theme which has anti-black ties, then you really need to think about your life so far."

Nah, I think he nailed it. Standard "you like this so you must be racist" Twitter trope.

 

[Californian Elitist]

"Does it make people sound racist who boycott something so stupid? Yes."

"If you don’t want to go to Disney again for any reason that’s fine. But to say that you won’t ever go back because they’re changing a ride to celebrate a black princess in lieu of a ride theme which has anti-black ties, then you really need to think about your life so far."

Nah, I think he nailed it. Standard "you like this so you must be racist" Twitter trope.

Except the post I quoted never accused the other post of claiming PEOPLE who support this decision to be racist.

“…to go on this RIDE and think it has to do with anything racial.”

Even the quotes you mentioned here still don’t prove that they were insinuating that the actual ride is racist.

We’re not talking about people, we’re talking about the ride.

 

[Dear Prudence]

Splash Mountain at Disneyland reopens in a few weeks!

 

[EagleScout610]

(controversy which has been confirmed by the fact that disney speaks its name less than V******* since the 1980's)?

 

[jasminethecat]

Except the post I quoted never accused the other post of claiming PEOPLE who support this decision to be racist.

“…to go on this RIDE and think it has to do with anything racial.”

Even the quotes you mentioned here still don’t prove that they were insinuating that the actual ride is racist.

We’re not talking about people, we’re talking about the ride.

Since people are quoting me, I want to be clear. I don't think Splash itself is in any way offensive on its own. I don't think liking Splash Mountain is racist. It's a great ride with fun music and bright characters. I love it. I think it's a shame that the source material is controversial because I also don't want it to change based on the ride itself and my own nostalgia for it. I have the song stuck in my head for days at a time. "How do you do? Pretty good, sure as you're born. What goes up is sure to come down, a penny lost is a penny found...." and so on.

That said, since virtually nobody alive today saw Song of the South, we all really had no idea where this ride came from. And even if we heard about Song of the South, we couldn't watch it. But now with the internet we can all see where it comes from, and for right or wrong the word has gotten out that a beloved ride comes from a movie which Disney has tried to bury for decades. And they would have gotten away with it too, if not for those meddling bears, foxes, rabbits and Twitter.

Now I will add my quote, "Does it make people sound racist who boycott something so stupid? Yes. If you don’t want to go to Disney again for any reason that’s fine. But to say that you won’t ever go back because they’re changing a ride to celebrate a black princess in lieu of a ride theme which has anti-black ties, then you really need to think about your life so far." I am not saying people who wish Splash could stay the same are racist. I am saying those people here who say things like "Disney will never see another dollar from me again if they do THIS" sound racist to me. If that's the hill you choose to die on then some people (like me) will definitely question your motives. I respect people more who won't ever go back to disney because the price of a pretzel or mickey bar went up by $0.25. At least they're either just addicted to snacks or they're thrifty.

 

[EagleScout610]

You’re talking about shorts vs an entire film that has a long history of being a racist outcast.

Literally nothing else compares. Trying to compare anything in the Disney library to the infamy of Song of the South is a waste of time.

Disney themselves threatened the riders future by throwing its source material in the dungeon. Now it's back and they're scrambling to hide it again.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Disney themselves threatened the riders future by throwing its source material in the dungeon. Now it's back and they're scrambling to hide it again.

Disney is dumb. They should have never made the film unavailable to the American public and they arguably should have also never used SotS as a source for Splash.

 

[Brer Panther]

You’re talking about shorts vs an entire film that has a long history of being a racist outcast.

So because they're shorts, that means they're not as bad? The only reason those shorts aren't considered on the same level as Song of the South is because they're not as well-known.

I'm not defending Song of the South, mind you.

Nah, I think he nailed it. Standard "you like this so you must be racist" Twitter trope.

Thank you.

 

[EagleScout610]

Splash Mountain and Song of the South are not the same thing. Disney intentionally kept the film's problematic elements out of the ride to avoid having it offend people. The attraction was beloved until 2020, I never saw anyone dubbing it racist simply because it features the Brers until 2020. It's not like it featuring characters from Song of the South was such a well-kept secret.

I believe it was earlier this thread when someone posted a newspaper article about the groundbreaking for Splash that mentioned that SoTS was already a controversial choice for the theme. Also someone else (Or it was the same person idr) said that people were shocked that was the theme they were going with when it was announced.

While people weren't rioting in the streets because the ride featured the Br'ers, they were criticizing it for featuring them before the ride even opened.

 

[BuzzedPotatoHead89]

I believe it was earlier this thread when someone posted a newspaper article about the groundbreaking for Splash that mentioned that SoTS was already a controversial choice for the theme. Also someone else (Or it was the same person idr) said that people were shocked that was the theme they were going with when it was announced.

While people weren't rioting in the streets because the ride featured the Br'ers, they were criticizing it for featuring them before the ride even opened.

The thing to keep in mind at the time was in the mid-late 80s before the second golden age TWDC had less to pull from in terms of classic animated cinema and soundtracks. “Zip” was one of their top 3 or 5 company anthems at the time. While the AS AAs could have easily been repurposed for a Fox and the Hound or a Robin Hood film I’d argue it would have not had the same soundtrack/score WDI was going for.

In some ways it was because of Alan Menken and Howard Ashman (and later Randy Newman) that throughout the 90s and 00s the TWDC catalogue grew and was refreshed... as time went on thereafter it became easier for “Zip” to eventually become supplanted and replaced. Particularly since the source material has been out of circulation domestically for some time.

What I don’t understand is why Disney just didn’t allow this to happen more naturally vs. the more seemingly forced approach we’re seeing. Even the eventual retheme makes sense given the deterioration of the AAs which were clearly not created for their environment and nature of the ride itself. Space Mountain and and BTMRR were both fully retracked and updated, Matterhorn too with Harold replaced, etc. Splash with its pre-CalOSHA infrastructure was due for a full update at some point and not with the current theme.

 

[Midwest Elitist]

What I don’t understand is why Disney just didn’t allow this to happen more naturally vs. the more seemingly forced approach we’re seeing. Even the eventual retheme makes sense given the deterioration of the AAs which were clearly not created for their environment and nature of the ride itself. Space Mountain and and BTMRR were both fully retracked and updated, Matterhorn too with Harold replaced, etc. Splash with its pre-CalOSHA infrastructure was due for a full update at some point and not with the current theme.

And yet, this does not seem to happen in Japan, where they actually care for their parks. Also, Space Mountain was only retracked because the original Arrow track was falling apart and they caught it before it killed someone.

 

[Californian Elitist]

So because they're shorts, that means they're not as bad? The only reason those shorts aren't considered on the same level as Song of the South is because they're not as well-known.

I'm not defending Song of the South, mind you.

Thank you.

What average person is going to know Mickey Mouse mainly by the racist shorts with him in them? That’s not the first thing that’s going to come to mind. Despite the few racist shorts in existence, Mickey Mouse is not well-known for racism. He’s a happy-go-lucky mouse character with a wife and various friends.

SotS has mostly negativity surrounding it. Not the same.

 

[Brer Panther]

While people weren't rioting in the streets because the ride featured the Br'ers, they were criticizing it for featuring them before the ride even opened.

And yet the attraction survived for years, beloved by millions, despite featuring the Brers. Why do you think that is?

What average person is going to know Mickey Mouse mainly by the racist shorts with him in them? That’s not the first thing that’s going to come to mind. Despite the few racist shorts in existence, Mickey Mouse is not well-known for racism. He’s a happy-go-lucky mouse character with a wife and various friends.

SotS has mostly negativity surrounding it. Not the same.

So, basically, yeah. The reason those shorts don't get as much flack is because they're not as well-known.