Third Theme Park in Anaheim?

[Pat X]

Hello Merlin,

Well, for whatever reason, it just seems to be that you have something personal against DCA. I don't why, but there is probably nothing I can do change your opinion.

That being said, I can provide a couple of sources of "major" media outlets that gave glowing reviews of DCA....the first is MSNBC. They praised the parks addition of educational attractions like Golden Dreams. In addition, feel free to read the following postitive review from E Online at: http://www.eonline.com/News/Items/Pf/0%2C1527%2C7787%2C00.html


In addition, readers at Themepark critic gave many of DCA's attractions high marks. You can visit it at

BTW, if you are going to get nitpicky with themes, what the hell does the current Autopia have to do with Tomorrowland? A highway based on a car's view of the world? Doesn't seem to have much to do with the future. Maybe Fantasyland, but not Tomorrowland. Oh, Does the Matterhorn really have anything to do with Fantasyland either?


Actually bud, I think you are in the minority of people who just cant accept that DCA is good park and have an agenda to dismiss the park at every chance. You are definitely in the minority when it comes to this message board.

 

[Woody13]

Originally posted by Merlin
Well if you remember your visit to DL in 1968, then guess what? You're older than me.

You must be an imposter then! Merlin was born in the early 10th century, so that would make you 900 to 1,000 years of age (depending upon which calendar you use).:lol:

 

[RU42]

Agreed! Though, like MANY things at DCA, can anyone explain what Aladdin has to do with California??


It IS always cool seeing DL from the air. But why did they have to make the buckets on the Sun Wheel encased in that mesh screening??? It makes it nearly impossible to get a decent photo.

Aladdin - Well, the production is in the Hollywood backlot and next to New York, LA/Hollywood is probably the second largest example of stage productions.

And I agree on the mesh being a royal pain; but with the lawsuit craziness in America I can't blame them too much.

RU

 

[Merlin]

Originally posted by Woody13
You must be an imposter then! Merlin was born in the early 10th century, so that would make you 900 to 1,000 years of age (depending upon which calendar you use).:lol:

OMG! You definitely got me with that one! ROFL!

 

[Merlin]

Originally posted by Pat X
BTW, if you are going to get nitpicky with themes, what the hell does the current Autopia have to do with Tomorrowland? A highway based on a car's view of the world? Doesn't seem to have much to do with the future. Maybe Fantasyland, but not Tomorrowland. Oh, Does the Matterhorn really have anything to do with Fantasyland either?

Disney built a park that was supposed to be about California and very little of it focuses on things that are either unique to California, a major part of California, or in some cases have anything whatsoever to do with California. How is that being "nitpicky" with themes?

As far as Autopia, I couldn't agree more that it is very out of place in Tomorrowland. I don't understand why they don't just shift the border of the two lands and just consider Autopia to be part of Fantasyland. That, to me, would make sense. Regarding the Matterhorn, though, I don't know why you feel it doesn't belong in Fantasyland.

Regardless, we're talking about two attractions (in fact, I'll even give you a third one...Why did they ever have the Hunchback of Notre Dame show in Frontierland?). But that pales in comparison to DCA which just seems to have no identity whatsoever. With DCA, I'm not arguing that attractions are out of place. I'm saying that most of the attractions that make up the park to begin with aren't what I would consider "California - themed". But here is another area where the defenders of DCA stretch their arguments to ridiculous lengths. For example, back when A Bug's Land first opened, I posed the question, "What does this have to do with California?" Responses I got were things to the effect of, "Are you saying California doesn't have bugs?". And that, to me, is just silly. Or when they opened "Millionaire" and I pointed out that "Millionaire" is a New York show (and it's not like they're discreet about that fact. They make a point of letting you know that at the beginning of the show). Responses I got were things like, "Well, it's a game show and they DO have game shows in California". So what all this tells me is that Disney sold this concept to the public on the basis that it would be a spectacular park with attractions based on the Golden State. Instead, we have carnival rides and re-hashes of attractions from other Disney parks. Except for Soarin', there's nothing unique about this park. And Soarin' is ALWAYS the attraction that is mentioned when people are supporting DCA. But as I've stated before, it's truly not that great of an attraction. It's just that it seems that way because we're comparing it to the rest of DCA. I'll bet if the Days of Thunder attraction from the Paramount parks was an attraction at DCA, it would be everyone's favorite and people would be saying things like, "It's one of the most AWESOME Disney attractions ever!" Likewise, if Soarin' were at a Six Flags park, I'll bet people would be criticizing it.

 

[Merlin]

Originally posted by Pat X
That being said, I can provide a couple of sources of "major" media outlets that gave glowing reviews of DCA....the first is MSNBC. They praised the parks addition of educational attractions like Golden Dreams. In addition, feel free to read the following postitive review from E Online at: http://www.eonline.com/News/Items/Pf/0%2C1527%2C7787%2C00.html

You must have thought that I would be impressed that you included a link and assumed I wouldn't actually read it. Who are you kidding? This isn't a "review". It's just a DESCRIPTION of the park that happens to have been written by a reporter. It describes what the attractions, and the park itself, were SUPPOSED to be about, but it doesn't give any opinions or reviews of HOW any of those attractions are. With the exception of mentioning that kids were giving it a thumbs up (describing kids as "the most important critics", which is funny since one of the earliest complaints about this park was that it didn't have much for kids), the only raving "reviews" were nothing more than quotes from Disney execs.

If this was the best you could come up with of the "a lot of" positive reviews you mentioned, then I think you've helped to prove my point. Thanks! But feel free to post the revies of the "couple of 'major' media sources" you mentioned (assuming you really can and that you didn't just make that up).

 

[Disneyland1970]

If you think back DL used to have 2 autopias One in Tomorrowland and one in Fantasyland. When DL opened wasnt autopia billed as a freeway of tomorrow or something along those lines. A lot of the country was still little 2 lanes roads not freeways in 1955, or like Georgia is today.... Sorry Drift

 

[Pat X]

Originally posted by Merlin
You must have thought that I would be impressed that you included a link and assumed I wouldn't actually read it. .

Frankly, I don't care if you are impressed or not. I am sure I could post hundreds of positive reviews by individual visitors or media outlets saying how great the park is or how attendance is up dramatically and you'd still find a reason to discount the information...just like you did with the EOnline REVIEW. What do you expect a review to offer?

I just think you need to realize that the park IS successful and there are many others out there who enjoy DCA. If you don't like Soarin, fine, but obviously, MANY MANY people do, or Disney wouldn't be building it at Epcot. I think you just represent a very small portion of Disney fans who have something against this park and will never accept it.

At least this discussion has helped make the DL board a little more active than usual.

BTW, Disneyland 1970...i do think Autopia fit back in 1955, moreso than it does now. But I am just thowing out an example of how the themeing can be stretched a bit in some Disney "lands."

 

[Disneyland1970]

Originally posted by Pat X
Frankly, I don't care if you are impressed or not. I am sure I could post hundreds of positive reviews by individual visitors or media outlets saying how great the park is or how attendance is up dramatically and you'd still find a reason to discount the information...just like you did with the EOnline REVIEW. What do you expect a review to offer?

You keep commenting on attendance on the rise.... Wasn't this park a total ghost town after the Grand Opening rush...It had no way to go but up.. Also isnt Disney promoting the heck out of DCA in SoCAl.. How much of the rise in attendance is from Discount tickets, etc...Just curious.

 

[RU42]

Cool, time to jump back in here:

Autopia:
Who was it built for? The answer is kids. In real life do kids get to drive? The answer is no. But autopia gives them 'tomorrow's experience' today. (At least that is the general idea, you can read early write-ups on autopia and that is how it is billed.) It might be a slight stretch but I can live with it.

Soarin:
I don't think Merlin said he didn't like Soarin'. He thinks it is more highly rated then it should be. That's a personal opinion. I guess the big test will come when the ride opens in Epcot. If it gets the same fanfair as it does in DCA then I think that bolsters the case that Soarin' is an innovative ride nad deserves the hype it gets.

DCA:
I like DCA but for different reasons then DL. (And it has nothing to do with being a 'Disney' loyalist as Merlin likes to proclaim.) DCA definitely suffered under the Pressler dominion. The park could have offered so much more from the beginning then it did. And the short coming wasn't about the theme, it was that corners were cut way too often.

However, we have seen DCA grow over the years. Comparing it to early Disney is both fair and unfair. As with all new ideas, once they are executed, will need to be modified. However, Disney should not have had laid such a large egg from the beginning as it did.

So, once they realized that DCA did not live up to the Disney reputation they have taken steps. MSEP was a nice addition (and a desparate one at that, no denying that fact.) Regardless, I am glad it is back.

The children issue was addressed somewhat by Flik's area.

ToT will bring a big time attraction to the park and will be a very welcomed addition. And it is not a copy from MGM. They are using better technologies so it should deliver, at least somewhat, a new experience. And as I have only been to WDW once since they have had ToT, I am glad I have one out here to enjoy.

I think DCA is making progress. I think a couple areas need improvement. The 2 adult spinners are overkill. I think they should dump one of them and go back to the drawing boards.

Golden Dreams and the Bay Area is a waste. I have seen the movie once and have no real desire to see it again; unlike HoP or Lincoln. Hey, bring back circle vision with the same concept - Calif is a land of dreams - and they might have a better attraction. And the SF street is cute, but dead. Ok, nice bathroom but that is hardly a draw. At least MSUSA has shops.

And I like the feel of the wharf area - reminds me of growing up on the docks. However - yawn. OK, at least I can get a tortilla sample from Mission. The sour dough bread is cheap. Did it once, never again. The seasons of the vine isn't much better. I like the general idea - but the execution seems more filler then anything else.

So - I am liking DCA better and the direction they are taking the park. (And to try and get a little more on topic) I think the money needs to continue to be dumped into this park before they consider park #3.

RU

 

[RU42]

Originally posted by Disneyland1970
You keep commenting on attendance on the rise.... Wasn't this park a total ghost town after the Grand Opening rush...It had no way to go but up.. Also isnt Disney promoting the heck out of DCA in SoCAl.. How much of the rise in attendance is from Discount tickets, etc...Just curious.

Hmmm, hard one to answer. So, let me break down your statement.

Was DCA a ghost town after opening - no; it was far worse. Many reasons for the lack luster opening year:

1. APs were excluded - you had to pay more to get a dual park AP. Stupid money hungry decision. When the bad press came out most APS said no way to the extra funds (I was one of them.)

2. The park got the reputation of a cheap money grabbing experience with no heart. Well, that was pretty close to right.

3. Lack of children programming was extremely damaging.

At least, those are the top few reasons that popped into my head.

What about now? Is DCA being over-promoted - no. DL is the one with most of the commercials (Pooh, Holiday, Snow.) DCA will get more very soon with the ToT commercials. There is a SoCal special to get two 1-day admissions (one for each park) at the price of one. However, this tactic has been used by Magic Mtn for years. And SoCal discounts for the Resort is nothing new.

The increased attendance is because the park is coming out of it's dismal failure. There are parades like the MSEP (yes, I know wrong name), added sections, and general opinion is growing. People are seeing that the Park is getting better. It was a horrible beginning. The ensuing years people were stand-offish - a wait-and-see attitude. But now it is really coming around. If they could add in a PotC/HM/Spaceship Earth type of AA ride and the park might begin to get a great reputation - might fit in the wharf or SF areas.

RU

 

[Disneyland1970]

I grew up in SF/Sacramento areas and traveled to DL too many times to count! On my first trip to DCA I felt it was very much like any other park in the state aside from DisneyLand. Has this been helped or???? I also felt the recreations of SF, Napa and the Warf(which I guessed was Monterey) were poorly done and boring. Has this been addressed. I am going to visit family next summer and am wondering if I should try it again. I am a big fan of DL and look forward to visiting the original park again. Live in Georgia now and spend a lot of time in WDW.

I think back and did like some of the aspects of DCA, but on the whole, felt let down. Just need to know if I need 2 or 3 days at the DL hotel!

I know this has drifted way away from the orig topic! I think a water park like Typhoon Lagoon would do great at the strawberry field. The only problem is the seasonal aspect of it. Is this area also including the old RV park/ minature golf. I can't remember if this area has a parking garage now. I did not drive my last couple of trips there. I don't miss 6 hours on the" 5".

Thanks:lol:

 

[RU42]

Well, your concerns about the wharf, SF, and Napa are still valid. I think these are the achilles heel of DCA right now; like Tomorrowland is for DL. They are neat is concept but lacking in execution.

However, I truly think the park is worth visiting. Soarin, Screaming, Grizzly, and ToT form the foundation of rides. The Electrical Parade, Aladdin, and the DUH show form a good basis for entertainment. Then you can layer in the other items as you desire; Animation, Muppets, Bugs, other shows on the Wharf, etc. I think you will be happy with the changes realizing the park does have some weaknesses but they have done a lot to improve it - worthy enough to visit and see what is new.

And personally I don't think another water park will be what is needed. Knotts built theirs and that is 5 minutes away. The the big park in Irvine is a geat water park. I think a water park for teh DL Resot would be too seasonal. And people wanting a real water experience have beaches very close by.

RU

 

[Pat X]

Hey all,

First off, I definitely appreciate the discussion and the differing viewpoints.

One thing I will say about the opening is also don't forget about the horrible weather that plagued California at the time as well. I visited DCA/DL several weeks after opening and it was during a time when it was pretty much torrential downpours all day. I also thought the lack of a real park hopper at the time (you could only park hop if you stayed at the DIsney hotels) hurt too.

From what I remember, Disney didn't start pushing DCA until after the new year, because from what I recall they didn't want to stop people from visiting during the Xmas season. Also, the DL Resort is never advertised out East, even though I think they should advertise it a little bit.

Next, the country was just entering into a recession and then came 9/11 which REALLY hurt attendance at all the parks.

With the discounts, yes, Disney offered discounts this year, but Universal Studios was pretty much giving their park away for free. They had a an offer where if you went one day, you can go for free for the rest of the year! They also added the 4-d Show Shrek and their attendance fell by 10%. DCA added Flick's Fun Faire and the Aladdin show and attendance jumped by %13.

I don't mind some of the stretches in themeing at all. I was just trying to make a point. You can find inconsistancies in every Disney Park for the most part.

 

[Disneyland1970]

Well it sounds like 4 days after all!

I did not realize all the water parks in SoCal now. WOW.

Maybe just plant some more berries and wait for the dust to settle!

 

[Merlin]

Originally posted by Disneyland1970
I grew up in SF/Sacramento areas and traveled to DL too many times to count!

Where in the SF/Sacramento area did you live? I currently live in Sacramento.

 

[Merlin]

Originally posted by Pat X
Frankly, I don't care if you are impressed or not. I am sure I could post hundreds of positive reviews by individual visitors or media outlets saying how great the park is or how attendance is up dramatically and you'd still find a reason to discount the information...just like you did with the EOnline REVIEW. What do you expect a review to offer?

No, I really don't think you could post "hundreds of positive reviews". You couldn't even find ONE. As I stated already, the EOnline article was not a review. It was nothing more than a description of the various attractions and areas of the park. Sure, it stated positive comments by Disney execs, but I really don't think those count, do you? The only part of it that really came close to being like a "review" was that it said DCA's "most important audience", kids, were giving it an enthusiastic thumbs up. We can debate whether or not you consider that a valid review, and I don't mean to discount the opinion of kids. But number one, I hate the attitude that kids are the "most important" audience at a Disney park. That's so against what Walt intended, that it's the very reason he set out to build Disneyland in the first place. Kids tend to not have a problem with carnivals and state fairs and that sort of thing. In fact, I recall reading somewhere that Walt Disney World did a survey of and found out that what kids tended to enjoy the most at the resort were the swimming pools at the hotels. Whether that's true or not, I can't confirm (at least I'm willing to ADMIT when I can't back up a claim), but it's not entirely surprising, especially if they're referring to very young kids.

 

[Disneyland1970]

Originally posted by Merlin
Where in the SF/Sacramento area did you live? I currently live in Sacramento.

I lived in Millbrae until I was 12 then moved to Orangevale. I now live near Macon Ga.

 

[BRER STITCH]

I visted DCA for the first time last month from NY.

As an "outsider" I can tell you I had a good time at DCA, and spent two days there.

Not knowing what most of the "California" stuff was, we had to take everything at face value.

I liked the themeing of most areas and really liked Soarin.

The Grizzly Water Ride looked too wet for us. People were getting SOAKED!!! (Maybe if the temperature was over 45 we might have tried it!)

The Animation attractions were awesome and we spent alot of time there. Also great was the Aladdin show at the Hyperion.

The Dock area seemd like a waste to me. Though decorated well and nicely themed, did I miss something other than a food court and some lame factory tours??

Other stuff like "Bugs Life", "Muppets", and "Millionaire" were pretty much the same as WDW and enjoyable here as well.

The worst part of DCA, we thought, was that Paradsie Pier Arcade area! How "church carnival" of them! :lol:
Add to that the overpriced McDonald's food, and it was disappointing. In fact, all of the food, in general, was WAYYYY overpriced and of poor quality. We left to go over to DL just to eat!

Sure, the coaster was fun, but the Orange Zipper was just a swing, and there was a similar ride right across the lake from it.
The ferris wheel was nice, and we got some great pics from the highest point in the parks!

Sadly, the lake was completely under-utilized! Not even a fountain!

Golden Dreams was just OK. I thought it was funny to see Whoopi though! I had no idea what the building it was in was supposed to be til we asked a CM and found it is supposed to be a California Art Museum!

I can't imagine DCA before Disney's Electrical Parade. Must have been boring at night. We still felt like we needed fireworks, or a show on that lake though!

With a few more additions/replacements and some polish, this park has lots of potential. ToT will be a great boost for it!

We'll return again, but will wait a few years so they can make some changes!

 

[Lhriangel]

I've been staying far away from this thread but I guess I'll jump in now.

I infact really enjoy DCA because it reminds me of Epcot and when I was living in LA after my first college program I needed that reminder to stop myself from going a little "homesick".

The Winery restrauant is actually very lovely and quite worth the money. I think it's about the same price of a meal Club 33 and the food is very good. One thing DCA has over DL is more restrauants and places to eat. This said I didn't really like Avalon Cove when I went there and I wish Wolfgang Punk was still in charge of the restrauant. Yes it is cool to have an Ariel themed character restruant but the fish and chips were NOT the best.

I love the atmosphere and music at DCA. As a Californian I love the surf music and I like just walking around that park and watching people. Like others have said it IS a more relaxing park then DL cause DL is almost always busy (lots more local AP holders then in FL).

Also ... as a side comment... Merlin how do you like the Central Valley? I couldn't wait to move out of Central California when I was young. It was so stifling, and the lack of senery where I was just didn't hit me as something I liked... although when people from Cali go to the area I live in they think all the vineyards are very beautiful... I don't get it. LOL