The Worst Thing to Happen to Walt Disney World

[imagineer boy]

DL's version has probably always been more popular....WDW's has never been as popular.....and probably never will be. Part of it may be that WDW's Adventureland is the least popular area of the park.

Yes yes, I know this thread has hopelessly drifted, but I wanted to respond to this anyway. Just to point out, the Tiki room in DL before the rehab never had any large numbers at all. About the same, if not lower than the attendance at WDW's tiki room. It hadn't had large numbers since the sixties when it first opened, then a decade after, the crowds died down considerably. Keep in mind that adventureland had and still has larger numbers than WDW's adventureland because of Indy, and the Tiki room still had no large crowds. The rehab changed all that. The addition of the torches and the colorful sign out front and the updated show inside has made the tiki room the most popular its ever been since the sixties.

 

[speck76]

Yes yes, I know this thread has hopelessly drifted, but I wanted to respond to this anyway. Just to point out, the Tiki room in DL before the rehab never had any large numbers at all. About the same, if not lower than the attendance at WDW's tiki room. It hadn't had large numbers since the sixties when it first opened, then a decade after, the crowds died down considerably. Keep in mind that adventureland had and still has larger numbers than WDW's adventureland because of Indy, and the Tiki room still had no large crowds. The rehab changed all that. The addition of the torches and the colorful sign out front and the updated show inside has made the tiki room the most popular its ever been since the sixties.

The attraction pre-redo was also in the poorest of possible conditions....which could have lead to the decline. In addition, the entire DL marketing for the HCOE was based on renewed classics....from HM and JC, Space Mt, Tiki Room, and now PotC...a lot of the classics were renovated....beside the parade and fireworks, and later Buzz, DL did not have any major new attractions, just a bunch of "plussed" classics.

 

[Shrike]

The attraction pre-redo was also in the poorest of possible conditions....which could have lead to the decline. In addition, the entire DL marketing for the HCOE was based on renewed classics....from HM and JC, Space Mt, Tiki Room, and now PotC...a lot of the classics were renovated....beside the parade and fireworks, and later Buzz, DL did not have any major new attractions, just a bunch of "plussed" classics.

Nonsense.

We've already established in this thread that Disneyland is a "Museum" that will tolerate zero change. Such things as the Finding Nemo Submarine Voyage, Remember...Dreams Come True, Space Mountain relaunch (awesome, btw...oh, wait), Haunted Mansion changes (including storyline...and certainly no overlays), Jungle Cruise changes, that whole Indy thing, radical changes to POTC, Disneyland: The First 50 Magical Years,etc. never happened.

Or perhaps those things did in fact happen, and the real point of this thread and the OP is that it's quite acceptable to be negative about (and in fact to lie about) certain entities of the WDC, and not about others.

Hope the OP is enjoying his/her armchair.

 

[dxwwf3]

Shrike does have a good point there.

 

[Pirate665]

Disneyland strives to stay on top with the other Resorts. Change is natural and openly welcomed at DL. The home-park is great, and I enjoy working there and WDW. Just as I enjoyed working at HKDL when WDE sent me there to help open it. They're each different and no-one is a museum. If one was, then it'd be a shame. And the annual passholders there are no different then the ones at WDW, DLP, TDL, TDS, ect....

 

[Shrike]

Shrike does have a good point there.

Perhaps a bit angry. My apologies.

I had the tremendous good fortune to be hired at Disneyland as a Junior in High School in 1985 (a very rare event in those days). It was just after "The Strike," and it was a time of signifigant change among the attitudes of both management and CM's. I had grown up 30 mins from DL, and it was a place I looked forward to visiting once or twice a year, but it meant little more to me than that.

However, once I started working there, I developed a deep...for lack of a better word, "Love" for DL and the ideals ot stood for, especially in the customer service area. I and my coworkers took tremendous pride in doing the little things every day to help create the magic, and I can assure you that there's no better feeling than to see smile after smile at the little things we sometimes took for granted.

I'm also fortunate as an adult to have the wherewithal to visit both DL and WDW a couple of times each year, and to hold annual passes at both. I love Disney and it's theme parks, and I want only the best for all of its divisions.

I mention all of this as background in hopes that it will illustrate that different people look at the "Magic" from markedly different perspectives. I have no doubt that Enderkari and I feel very similar emotions when we catch our first glimpse of the castle, but we apparently differ greatly on what exactly it is about the Disney park experience that make us feel that way.

I held myself and those who worked around me at DL to a very high standard when I was on "My watch," and it sometimes irritates me to this day when I see things that are frankly not up to par. Now, I don't run to the internet to bash anyone, but I quite often stop by City Hall to (by far more often than not) praise a particularly good CM, or to report something that is not up to the high standard Walt set for us.

And sometimes, concerned people have a good reason to point out, publicly, that Cynthia Harriss and Paul Pressler were in fact the devil incarnate, and were destroying something that I hold dear. Far from harming the magic for others, the hope was to preserve it for my kids and yours.

I don't condone contstant negativity, and I'm not one to search for fault when there is none. I didn't mind Bear Country becoming Critter Country, I don't miss Horizons, I think M:S is flat out awesome, I look forward to seeing the new DL HM, and I only really grumbled to myself when I read about the changes to DL's POTC. I undersatnd that not every part of the Disney experience is intended for me. But by the same token, I appreciate MiceAge. I don't think Jim Hill is Osama, and I think that, in general, more information on any topic is a good thing.

Caveat Emptor, but give me the choice.

I love Disney as much as the next guy/gal. It's had an enormous impact upon my life. But if I sometimes mention that the service at Cafe Orleans isn't as good as it ought to be, or if I point out that another character meet is the last thing Frontierland needs, I hope you'll forgive me.

 

[speck76]

And sometimes, concerned people have a good reason to point out, publicly, that Cynthia Harriss and Paul Pressler were in fact the devil incarnate, and were destroying something that I hold dear. Far from harming the magic for others, the hope was to preserve it for my kids and yours.

I don't know of anyone who will disagree with you there.

I don't condone contstant negativity, and I'm not one to search for fault when there is none. I didn't mind Bear Country becoming Critter Country, I don't miss Horizons, I think M:S is flat out awesome, I look forward to seeing the new DL HM, and I only really grumbled to myself when I read about the changes to DL's POTC. I undersatnd that not every part of the Disney experience is intended for me. But by the same token, I appreciate MiceAge. I don't think Jim Hill is Osama, and I think that, in general, more information on any topic is a good thing.

Caveat Emptor, but give me the choice.

I love Disney as much as the next guy/gal. It's had an enormous impact upon my life. But if I sometimes mention that the service at Cafe Orleans isn't as good as it ought to be, or if I point out that another character meet is the last thing Frontierland needs, I hope you'll forgive me.

I don't think anyone is on a "Only ever say nice things about Disney" campaign. My personal problem with some of the "activist" fans is that they don't try to understand the business, or why the changes take place.

If a complaint is valid, that is one thing.....but if it is petty, what good is it going to do?

People are complaining WAY TOO MUCH about the rumored Monster's Inc attraction for TL, yet nobody knows anything about it, or if it will even happen......

 

[dxwwf3]

People are complaining WAY TOO MUCH about the rumored Monster's Inc attraction for TL

I still don't see that. I see the majority being in favor of it or they are indifferent at this point. I've only seen a few people say they are totally against it, but I think they are entitled to their opinion. But from what I've seen, most people aren't complaining at all.

I don't think anyone is on a "Only ever say nice things about Disney" campaign.

Sometimes it can appear that way though.

 

[speck76]

I still don't see that. I see the majority being in favor of it or they are indifferent at this point. I've only seen a few people say they are totally against it, but I think they are entitled to their opinion. But from what I've seen, most people aren't complaining at all.



Sometimes it can appear that way though.

sure....but why form an opinion on something that is only rumored, and very little is known of it....why not give it the benefit of the doubt until Disney releases more info, or you visit the attraction?

The only thing we DO know about the building is that Timekeeper will never be view there again. I would think ANY new attraction would be an improvement over NOTHING.....and since previous rumors revolved around bumpercars.....I would think the current rumor would be considered the better alternative.

 

[CaptainMichael]

I would think the current rumor would be considered the better alternative.

You would think so! It just doesn't fit the current non-existent theme of Tomorrowland.....blah, blah, blah.....

 

[dxwwf3]

and since previous rumors revolved around bumpercars.....I would think the current rumor would be considered the better alternative.

You're preaching to the choir on that one.

BTW, I'm in favor of a Monsters Inc attraction there as long as it's done well. But I can see the arguments against it as well. I might not agree, but I think some against it have made great posts with good arguments. And those people are the minority on this topic and I think they would be the first to tell you. I have seen very little complaints about this one.

 

[spangu]

A little bit wrong.

"When Disney was building a new attraction, it was the mystic quality of word-of-mouth that got people excited about seeing the attraction"

Sorry you are a little bit wrong here....

Before you were born there was aTelevision show called Dsineyland(other tiles were used) that Walt used to tell people all about new attractions on.

And they even still use television to this day....like discovery channel's partnership in launching Expedition Everest.

Also, word-of mouth does include things posted on the web as well, good and bad....we just have to focus on the good.

 

[Pooh88]

But like with all other avenues of information, we only have to read what we want to. For example, I don't watch videos of new rides I have not been on because I don't want to know. Same reason I have have necer done the park tour and why I would not work for Disney. However, sites like these provide information for me on new attractions, rennovations etc. and help me plan and get excited for my next trip!

 

[joshwill]

hmmph...i thot this was gonna be a bash eisner thread.

 

[DisneyNut2007]

Amongst all the glitz and glitter of the Happiest Celebration on Earth, in the wake of all the successful attractions that Walt Disney World has opened in the past 15 years, in spite of the parks being as visited as ever, making Walt Disney World one of the most visited vacation destinations in the world; there is still one glaring thing that is working against. One glaring omission, a blind spot, something that fights against the magic that WDW stands for, but which the Walt Disney Company is unable to control.

Ladies and Gentlemen, that black spot is the Internet.

People used to wonder about how things at Walt Disney World worked, marvel at the the attractions, and be amazed that WDW could do it all over again. A person riding Haunted Mansion would feel that creative spark and start creating their story for how that attraction came to be. People would laugh at the jokes in the Jungle Cruise because they had never heard them before. When Disney was building a new attraction, it was the mystic quality of word-of-mouth that got people excited about seeing the attraction.

But... not anymore. The magic of Disney is a lot like faith, it is something that is never supposed to be completely understood. A quick jaunt to the internet reveals all the secrets of Disney, simply so one webmaster can show how much he loves the attraction and feel superior to everyone else.

There are no surprises at Walt Disney World anymore. The magic of turning a corner and seeing something new is being stolen away. Whenever Disney starts a new project, internet junkies descend like vultures pecking away at any little bits of information they can find, real or imaginary. Internet armchair Imagineers criticize projects that they couldn't possibly fathom anything but the most cursory bits of the process. Disney can't build an attraction without thousands of people critiquing and second-guessing the project every step of the way. The dissemination of information has been a bane on Walt Disney World...

It's not the World that is changing, it's the guests. No longer do they stay up nights anticipating that one magical vacation. Having Walt Disney World constantly on the minds of guests you would think would be positive, but I argue that it is detrimental, because Walt Disney World is becoming "familiar." The more one reads about Walt Disney World, the more familiar they become with it, the more "real world" it seems. The familiarity chips away at the magical experience, and its a familiarity that hasn't been earned, the way an Imagineer has earned it. In short, its familiarity without comprehension, without an understanding of the underlying currents which cause that aspect of WDW to exist.

Its human nature to build up something only for interests of tearing it down. Look at the way society treats its actors or other celebrities, they turn them into stars, then tear away at them to make them human. Unfortunately, Disney seems to suffer the same fate. WDW is held to an impossibly high standard, and a certain group of people seem to delight in pointing out the fallibilities instead of enjoying the magic (D-Troops, MiceAge, Jim Hill). Through pure demagoguery, these useless folks define their existence on having people read what they write, they are addicted to it. They are addicted to the rush of having people agree with them, no matter what they say. And its sad to say that they have those people agree with their ludicrous statements on a frightening level. But, what do they do when the real information runs out? They only have two choices... The first choice is easy, start writing about their own opinions, trying to shape the impressionable minds of their readers, getting the rush of power that comes from making somebody think they way they do. The second option is just as prevalent, and more than a little scarier, they make stuff up.

A paint chip will be repainted by the decorators of WDW as soon as it is discovered and called in, in many cases this will be overnight. However, there are people who will take a picture of that paint chip, or that broken bulb, and put it out on the internet where it will live forever... No understanding, no comprehension, just supposed familiarity. These people are the ones I don't understand, because they hate Walt Disney World... They hate going there, they only get angry being there, and want everyone else to be as angry... They want to tear Disney down. They talk about the people running the place with such hatred that I can only see coming from unabashed jealousy. They hate the park because they don't run the park. Just like those Monday Night Football armchair quarterbacks, they are really good at making decisions that they physically aren't able to follow through with. They understand how the game works, but they really don't comprehend the overall gameplan of the team.

I like WDWMagic, Steve is good at keeping people excited about the things that are coming, at looking at Walt Disney World in a positive light. And I am all for the discussion of Walt Disney World, I love reading trip reports and seeing how much fun people are having. I love seeing people ask simple questions and watch forum members jump at the chance to help their vacation plans out. All of my photo trip reports have struck a chord in select members simply because of they can see pictures of someone who still enjoys going to Walt Disney World, who still believes there is one Mickey Mouse, who still loves experiencing a ride for the first time by ACTUALLY RIDING IT.

Find that magic everyone, there is no reason not believe there is only one Mickey Mouse, there is no reason to actively seek out reasons to be disappointed, there is no reason to be dissatisfied because Stitch's Great Escape wasn't made for you.

There is reason for fun, and laughter, and joy.... and Magic

Thanks, Enderikari. I couldn't have said it better myself. You rock!

 

[brucie]

I have to agree and disagree all in the same breath on this one. Firstly I think the internet is a great tool and resource and a place like wdwmagic shows how great this can truely be. I myself think that this site enhances the magic by allowing me to hear about peoples' trips and see photos, and I also like to hear about new things and ideas. I think that it is not the internet that puts a negitive spin on things but rather the internet is a vechical to spread human nature positive and negative.

On some notes I think we all need to calm down sometimes and just take talk for talk. For example I don't think SGE even comes close to AE but thats my opinion and a place like WDWMagic allows us to share these thoughts and opinions without attacking wdw or twdc though I understand some people do and to those folks I say they arent worth commenting on. I think there is a fine line there between talk/discussion and ranting and attacking but I think its a good thing.

All in all I think there is a lot more positive then negative out there. If we all keep the magic close by the negative aspects should be easy to skip over.

your right SGE comes no where close to what AE was..

 

[brucie]

I think I would have to disagree with this writer of this thread. I love knowing how things work. I went on the keys to the kingdom tour last sept( I highly recommend it) and I love the Magic Kingdom that much more. I love seeing the behind the scenes stuff seeing how they do things how efficient they are and how hard they work to keep things so clean!! It makes me appreciate it much more!!

 

[wedway71]

I think WDW sites can be a double edged sword.

I will say I love this site(GREAT JOB STEVE). Ive been on here for about 5 years and like the POSITIVE spin of the site unlike some others that say they are FANSITES but bash Disney all the time.

I think the poster is right about pics of paint etc. Good example is while back on another site someone took pics of plain non themed garbage cans in MK.
It sparked fire all over the internet community about how Disney is cheap and lost its touch and ruined the Disney experience.

Turns out Disney was trying a new Garbage can vendor and before buying and painting them to match the themed lands they wanted to see how they would hold up.Turns out they did buy them and painted them so no magic was lost and Disney wasnt being cheap but since someone happen to take a pic of the week or 2 that they were plain white it started a frenzy.

Another example is I went to lunch in Celebration a couple of years ago.Driving into town I saw a house with the roof truss ripped off.I thought how tacky and this is a Disney Town???? Turns out right before I got there the contractor ripped it off to replace it.While I was at lunch it got fixed and as good as new.
Now what if I took a pic of it and posted"CELEBRATION GOING DOWN HILL" without knowing it was getting fixed right after I shot the pic???

 

[katertotyay]

i didn't read every page on this topic, but i agree with whoever said that the people looking at the videos and researching on the internet are most likely return visitors. i am an example of such, as i was scouring youtube and google for videos of disney world to relive the memories of my last times there (we only had pictures, and just a few, and no videos) and to get even more excited for my upcoming trip in august. and even if i saw something new, i doubt i would remember it clearly once i got there a month from now. i think the internet is useful if you use it with intention, and only harmful if you stumble upon something you wish you hadn't seen or learned. i personally love that their are highlights of visitors' trips up on youtube because then you see stuff you're excited to see later on, plus you get to see the magic that THEY experienced as well. so i don't think the magic is going away at all...it's just growing up with the times as the internet is used for more and more.

 

[MickeyJman06]

old topic:hurl: