The Worst Thing to Happen to Walt Disney World

[Enderikari]

And he also made some fantastic points too.

No, not really. There were at least just as many, if not more complaints about the original tiki room, and how it was outdated and didn't appeal to the children of families. People were thinking it was boring, so the Imagineers took the resources available to hem and spiced it up with contemporary, recognizable characters. "Timeless Nature" doesn't mean anything when nobody is riding it, if its not an attraction that is enjoyed, then it must make way for *gasp* change.

DL is a completely different animal, and I feel that if you are resistant to change, then the DL museum is the park for you. Because of the propensity of Annual Passholders at DL, they have to pander to there AP's who tend to react violently to change (I would go through the story of Light Magic, but I've been through it before). Thankfully, WDW can be far more dynamic, and appeal to a wider group of folks...

Every single one of his statements can be attributed to the phenonomenon I mentioned earlier, "Familiarity without comprehension." He attributes things he doesn't like to false causes. He makes his statements a sweeping generalization. He creates his own causes, without knowing the truth. He sees the quarterback dropping back to pass, thinks he should run the ball, and has no idea what the coach is thinking.

 

[Shrike]

Through pure demagoguery, these useless folks define their existence on having people read what they write, they are addicted to it. They are addicted to the rush of having people agree with them, no matter what they say. And its sad to say that they have those people agree with their ludicrous statements on a frightening level.

You desperately need to find a mirror and take a long, hard look at yourself, and perhaps reflect on the ridiculous rhetoric and the equally silly sophistry you and a couple of your Pavlovian sycophants cling to.

Stop worrying about what other people are reading, discussing, and thinking about, tap the brakes a bit, and recognize that how and where you personally find the Magic is not a universal Truth, but instead a personal preference.

 

[dxwwf3]

No, not really. There were at least just as many, if not more complaints about the original tiki room, and how it was outdated and didn't appeal to the children of families. People were thinking it was boring, so the Imagineers took the resources available to hem and spiced it up with contemporary, recognizable characters. "Timeless Nature" doesn't mean anything when nobody is riding it, if its not an attraction that is enjoyed, then it must make way for *gasp* change.

DL is a completely different animal, and I feel that if you are resistant to change, then the DL museum is the park for you. Because of the propensity of Annual Passholders at DL, they have to pander to there AP's who tend to react violently to change (I would go through the story of Light Magic, but I've been through it before). Thankfully, WDW can be far more dynamic, and appeal to a wider group of folks...

Every single one of his statements can be attributed to the phenonomenon I mentioned earlier, "Familiarity without comprehension." He attributes things he doesn't like to false causes. He makes his statements a sweeping generalization. He creates his own causes, without knowing the truth. He sees the quarterback dropping back to pass, thinks he should run the ball, and has no idea what the coach is thinking.

You're tending to overgeneralize here. I think this is a grey matter, while you seem to only see black and white. Just because someone thinks that the original Tiki show was better doesn't mean they wanted a museum park. And because someone thinks that generally pop culture references can date an attraction quickly, doesn't mean that every new attraction is worthless.

 

[phillipsa9]

i feel like something that has been missed in the thoughts about this post is that the disney magic transcends just being surprised... if the only thing magical about the place was being surprised why would anyone bother to ride anything more than once? the magic of disney lies in the details of the lands and the attractions.... if you know something is coming does that mean its not magical? certainly not... im sure there are many rides and shows that at least half of the people on this board could draw maps of and recite all of the dialogue for but the attractions are still magical....
i am one of the ones who finds it to be more magical the more you know about the operations and stories of your surroundings...
to say that media leakage ruins surprises is one thing but to ever utter the words "ruin" and "disney magic" in the same sentence is reprehensible.... The Magic of Disney is indestructable! So have a magical day!

 

[speck76]

Its human nature to build up something only for interests of tearing it down. Look at the way society treats its actors or other celebrities, they turn them into stars, then tear away at them to make them human. Unfortunately, Disney seems to suffer the same fate. WDW is held to an impossibly high standard, and a certain group of people seem to delight in pointing out the fallibilities instead of enjoying the magic (D-Troops, MiceAge, Jim Hill). Through pure demagoguery, these useless folks define their existence on having people read what they write, they are addicted to it. They are addicted to the rush of having people agree with them, no matter what they say. And its sad to say that they have those people agree with their ludicrous statements on a frightening level. But, what do they do when the real information runs out? They only have two choices... The first choice is easy, start writing about their own opinions, trying to shape the impressionable minds of their readers, getting the rush of power that comes from making somebody think they way they do. The second option is just as prevalent, and more than a little scarier, they make stuff up.

A paint chip will be repainted by the decorators of WDW as soon as it is discovered and called in, in many cases this will be overnight. However, there are people who will take a picture of that paint chip, or that broken bulb, and put it out on the internet where it will live forever... No understanding, no comprehension, just supposed familiarity. These people are the ones I don't understand, because they hate Walt Disney World... They hate going there, they only get angry being there, and want everyone else to be as angry... They want to tear Disney down. They talk about the people running the place with such hatred that I can only see coming from unabashed jealousy. They hate the park because they don't run the park. Just like those Monday Night Football armchair quarterbacks, they are really good at making decisions that they physically aren't able to follow through with. They understand how the game works, but they really don't comprehend the overall gameplan of the team.

Great post!

I have never understood these people which you speak of. I don't understand going to the park to look for problems.....whatever happened to visiting the park for a fun day, or a relaxing afternoon?

I also do not understand why people are so negative about new attractions. People are complaining of the new Finding Nemo musical, yet they have never seen it, never heard a song (and it looks like Disney went all out for this show in terms of the talent creating it) but it is not good enough.....either because it is a show, and not a $100 bazillion e-ticket, or because "it's in the wrong land"...well....Tarzan and The Jungle Book were previously in the same theater, and this did not seem to be an issue at that time.

Many people do not like change......many people want Epcot to remain in its 1982 form, yet society as a whole is much different today than in 1982. I think what many people forget is that "they are not the only people in the park". Yes....we all have our favorite attractions....AE had a small following, Timekeeper did too.....yet if the vast majority of people really liked these attractions, they would still be here today. WDC is "entertainment for the masses".....and because of that, they need to appeal to the masses.

 

[Shaman]

So after all these great posts....has anyone's opinion or views on the subject changed? :lookaroun

 

[speck76]

You're missing the point. Nothing on these boards, from the uniformed opinions, to the humorous speculations, to the intelligent discourse; is going to affect the way I love going to Walt Disney World. I just think its funny how people around here claim that Disney is losing its magic, when its really themselves they should be looking at. I see people complaining about rides and attraction, and then seeing them say, "I will Never Ride It." It makes me sad.

For starters....the vast majority of society has problems accepting responsibility for things......if Person A feels WDW is losing its magic, it is the park's fault, certainly not his own fault. Perhaps he is growing up, or becoming interested in other things.

When I was younger, I loved WDW, but I went through a time period, one which lasted until about 3 or 4 years ago, where I disliked everything Disney.....in my opinion at that time, the parks and attractions were lame....not sure what triggered that change in emotion, or what brought back my old feelings......but it was just where I was in my life at that time.

 

[wannab@dis]

You desperately need to find a mirror and take a long, hard look at yourself, and perhaps reflect on the ridiculous rhetoric and the equally silly sophistry you and a couple of your Pavlovian sycophants cling to.

Stop worrying about what other people are reading, discussing, and thinking about, tap the brakes a bit, and recognize that how and where you personally find the Magic is not a universal Truth, but instead a personal preference.

Apparently you haven't been reading, because if you had, you would realize that the OP is doing just that... asking that people look for the magic themselves and not base it on the opinions of the few that like to bash everything.

The eternal pessimists are the ones that seem to be conditioned to complain about everything and can't really think for themselves. As for who the OP is trying to impress... You lost me there. Either that or you really weren't sure what you were writing.

 

[dxwwf3]

AE had a small following, Timekeeper did too.....yet if the vast majority of people really liked these attractions, they would still be here today. WDC is "entertainment for the masses".....and because of that, they need to appeal to the masses.

Well let's put it this way, I'd rather have my 8 years of AE than have the mentality of the "masses". I complained about losing those two because they were two of my favorites, but I also knew that they didn't appeal to those that wanted standard WDW fare and that's part of the reason for their appeal to me and many others. If AE was a cookie cutter Disney attraction, it might have lasted longer, but it wouldn't have been as special.

Now I'm more prepared to lose unique attractions. You better believe that I'll be seeing Sounds Dangerous a few times in June :lol:

 

[George]

I think you can feel that WDW is a magical wonderful place and still be critical of some aspects. After all, its a HUGE resort with many, many diversions. Not everything is going to appeal to all. I happen to agree with the fellow who thinks the new version of the Tiki Bird room is lame. But, I really like Turtle talk with Crush, Soarin' (saw it at DCA, not at EPCOT yet, but its the same experience), etc. Eh - just my opinions. No big deal. I really like WDW. I don't think its a big deal to be critical of something I don't like though. Theme park attractions are really a forms of entertainment and art. I think its kind of fun to discuss details and pros and cons of attractions old and new. I loved EPCOT when it opened and through the 80's. But my friends from the time (high school years for me) still make fun of El Rio del Tiempo and the lady with the unnecessarily foreign accent from TLS movie. It doesn't diminish our love of the overall experience at the time. I also don't think having discussions about such things on the internet hurts WDW at all. Most people are familiar with internet forums on a variety of topics and know that any crazy, weirdo can voice their opinion. Look - recently that Merlin fellow was going out of his way to trash Everest, a ride that almost everyone else likes. He came off looking kind of nutty. I certainly can't see any sane person reading one of his posts and then visit DAK, look at that mountain and think to themselves, "Man didn't that guy on the internet just trash that? No way am I going on that."

 

[Enderikari]

Reprinted from Earlier Posting to show familiarity without comprehension

Let's say there's this guy, and every week, for the past 5 years, he has gone to this bakery, let's call it Roy's Bake Shop on Wednesday, because he is a fan of their chocolate cake. And every Wednesday, for 5 years, he has bought a piece of chocolate cake, and eaten it on the spot. He raves to all of his friends, relatives and co-workers about Roy's delicious chocolate cake, and really expresses himself as an expert of Roy's chocolate cake.
Of course, he doesn't actually have the recipe (he only knows a few of the ingredients) for Roy's Chocolate Cake, and really doesn't have the acumen to reproduce it in the kitchen anyway; but this guy is a huge fan of Roy's Chocolate Cake.
Now, this guy has become such a fan of Roy's Chocolate Cake, that he starts suggesting things to Roy to add to the chocolate cake, not really knowing the original ingredients in the first place. The suggestions aren't really taken to heart by Roy in the baking of his chocolate cake; knowing that the guy isn't a baker by trade. This only midly upsets the guy, but he shrugs his shoulders, and still continues to buy the chocolate cake that he has loved for many years. However, this guy has been eating Roy's Chocolate Cake for so many years, the cake has begun, not only to taste plain to him, but also is no longer (in the eyes of this guy) known as Roy's Chocolate Cake, but instead he thinks of it as "That Guy's Chocolate Cake."
Unfortunately, even the perceived ownership that that guy has towards the cake doesn't make it his cake, and one day, for whatever reason, Roy decides to change the recipe, adding and subtracting ingredients to produce what Roy thinks to be a better cake, after all, it is his cake.
That Wednesday, this guy walks into Roy's Bake Shop, and orders the chocolate cake. As he sits down to enjoy the meal he has been expecting (even though the cake has begun to taste plain to him, due to his familiarity with the cake), he bites into the cake and realizes that the cake has noticeably changed. He begins this tirade, leaving the store in a rage. For the rest of his days, he tells all of his friends, co-workers, and family that Roy's Chocolate Cake really went down hill, and his friends smile and nod, because they, as a group, now go every Wednesday to Roy's Bake Shop, to enjoy their chocolate cake.

 

[dxwwf3]

Got any milk?

Creative post

 

[Yukinon]

Okay just have to add my couple of cents anyhow...

As far as finding out backstage information that "ruins" the magic - didn't Walt Disney have a show with the Magical World of Disney where he showed how the animatronics were made, and other interesting tidbits? If he didn't, please correct me (I personally never saw any of these b/c I was born in 1980 ) So if I am correct Walt himself allowed the public to see a little of how things were done.

Also, in those ripe days before the dawn of the Internet, late 80's early 90's, I went to the library in the summer and read up on Disney information and learned a lot about Disney world and Disney land and how things were done, I remember in particular that the one book had pictures of attractions with the lights on... wish I had written down the name of that sucker, unfortunatly that branch of our library has closed for close to 3 years now...

What I am trying to get at is that it is not completely the internet's fault for scouring for Disney information. As a young child so completely obsessed with all things Disney, I was able to satisfy my Disney sweet-tooth in various places.

And to reiterate what several people have said, some of us are unable to get to Disney every year or even every decade! We need something to help us through those dark times when there is no glimmer of Disney hope - being in a terrible job with no benefits or sick time or vacation time, not to mention barely making minimum wage so even if you had those things you still couldn't afford a trip.. I have been down that path many many times, and it has been the internet that has helped me through those times.

While I agree that there is so much negativity, I just laugh at the people who are your so-called "armchair imagineers" for the dummys they make themselves out to be.

Well this post is getting way too long... Have a magical day everyone :lol:

 

[imagineer boy]

You're tending to overgeneralize here. I think this is a grey matter, while you seem to only see black and white. Just because someone thinks that the original Tiki show was better doesn't mean they wanted a museum park. And because someone thinks that generally pop culture references can date an attraction quickly, doesn't mean that every new attraction is worthless.

And as it turns out, the original Tiki room show in DL is drawing in more crowds than ever because of the recent rehab. The tourches out front draw people in, and the show is pretty much the same as it was when it opened, but newer lighting effects, animatronics and effects that make it a much more entertaining experience. While the "hipper and more up to date" tiki room show here at WDW struggles to bring in any crowds. You don't have to put in rap music to make it more popular.

 

[FigmentJedi]

Another thing, the original Journey Into Imagination was popular throughout it's run, right behind Spaceship Earth in attendance. Notice that after JIYI opened, because of the severe lack in quality, attendance plummeted and even after Figment's return, the ride is mostly a walkon, perhaps only developing a line in the really crowded seasons.

 

[speck76]

What I am trying to get at is that it is not completely the internet's fault for scouring for Disney information. As a young child so completely obsessed with all things Disney, I was able to satisfy my Disney sweet-tooth in various places.

I think the problem with the internet is that it is fast and has broad range.

Let's say that you really hate chipped paint. If you went to the parks in the 80's and saw chipped paint on a corner of a building, you might have thought that it looked bad......but chances are that you were not going to tell thousands of people about it. Additionally, it probably would have been fixed prior to another person with a hate of chipped paint ever seeing it.

Now, all of the freaks that hate chipped paint can see each and every chip of paint, as soon as they are discovered....all it takes is one post.

Additionally, let's say it is 1990....TLM had been released....and has been the most successful WDFA film in a very very long time. Unfortunately, you did not care for TLM.....it was not your favorite movie. What you do love is The Muppets. While waiting in line for Here Comes the Muppets, you talk to a CM about your love for The Muppets, and the CM mentions to you that the show is going to close in the next year to make way for a Little Mermaid stage show. You are upset, you can not believe Disney would do such a thing...... The problem is that neither you nor the CM know that the Muppets' show is actually being moved....not going away (yet). In addition, neither of you know that Muppetvision 4-D is being built at the back of the park......but the story stops there.....how many people would you have been able to tell (that actually would have cared)? In addition, how many other guests are going to discuss with that same CM their love of The Muppets, and be told that the show is closing. Perhaps the very next day that CM learns that the show is moving, and the movie is coming......the story could die right there......but now with the internet, we get wrong information like "the balloons at The Land are being removed" and "CoP is closing (from 3 years ago)", the story gets spread, and people get upset.

 

[speck76]

And as it turns out, the original Tiki room show in DL is drawing in more crowds than ever because of the recent rehab. The tourches out front draw people in, and the show is pretty much the same as it was when it opened, but newer lighting effects, animatronics and effects that make it a much more entertaining experience. While the "hipper and more up to date" tiki room show here at WDW struggles to bring in any crowds. You don't have to put in rap music to make it more popular.

apples to oranges.....the Tiki Room in DL is once again a new attraction....people have not seen it for the last 10 years, like they have the updated version.

 

[Enderikari]

And as it turns out, the original Tiki room show in DL is drawing in more crowds than ever because of the recent rehab. The tourches out front draw people in, and the show is pretty much the same as it was when it opened, but newer lighting effects, animatronics and effects that make it a much more entertaining experience. While the "hipper and more up to date" tiki room show here at WDW struggles to bring in any crowds. You don't have to put in rap music to make it more popular.

Familiarity... no comprehension.... Dl's Tiki Room is designed to appeal to a completely different audience, it is a symbol of the glaring differences between DL and WDW. DL's guests would be chomping at the bit if Disney changed the Tiki Room, because there are some folks at Disneyland who would prefer to see all of Disneyland burned down, then to see one attraction changed.

 

[dxwwf3]

Familiarity... no comprehension.... Dl's Tiki Room is designed to appeal to a completely different audience, it is a symbol of the glaring differences between DL and WDW. DL's guests would be chomping at the bit if Disney changed the Tiki Room, because there are some folks at Disneyland who would prefer to see all of Disneyland burned down, then to see one attraction changed.

No matter the reasoning, DL's version is more popular right now than ours. And it doesn't really matter that theirs just had a rehab either. I think this goes to show what some of us are saying that newer isn't ALWAYS better. But my gosh, don't get that confused with being anti-change. This isn't McCarthyism here. Just because you disagree with a change or two, doesn't make you a Communist.....or a change hating, backwards armchair imagineer.

 

[jesserin]

Amongst all the glitz and glitter of the Happiest Celebration on Earth, in the wake of all the successful attractions that Walt Disney World has opened in the past 15 years, in spite of the parks being as visited as ever, making Walt Disney World one of the most visited vacation destinations in the world; there is still one glaring thing that is working against. One glaring omission, a blind spot, something that fights against the magic that WDW stands for, but which the Walt Disney Company is unable to control.

Ladies and Gentlemen, that black spot is the Internet.

People used to wonder about how things at Walt Disney World worked, marvel at the the attractions, and be amazed that WDW could do it all over again. A person riding Haunted Mansion would feel that creative spark and start creating their story for how that attraction came to be. People would laugh at the jokes in the Jungle Cruise because they had never heard them before. When Disney was building a new attraction, it was the mystic quality of word-of-mouth that got people excited about seeing the attraction.

But... not anymore. The magic of Disney is a lot like faith, it is something that is never supposed to be completely understood. A quick jaunt to the internet reveals all the secrets of Disney, simply so one webmaster can show how much he loves the attraction and feel superior to everyone else.

There are no surprises at Walt Disney World anymore. The magic of turning a corner and seeing something new is being stolen away. Whenever Disney starts a new project, internet junkies descend like vultures pecking away at any little bits of information they can find, real or imaginary. Internet armchair Imagineers criticize projects that they couldn't possibly fathom anything but the most cursory bits of the process. Disney can't build an attraction without thousands of people critiquing and second-guessing the project every step of the way. The dissemination of information has been a bane on Walt Disney World...

It's not the World that is changing, it's the guests. No longer do they stay up nights anticipating that one magical vacation. Having Walt Disney World constantly on the minds of guests you would think would be positive, but I argue that it is detrimental, because Walt Disney World is becoming "familiar." The more one reads about Walt Disney World, the more familiar they become with it, the more "real world" it seems. The familiarity chips away at the magical experience, and its a familiarity that hasn't been earned, the way an Imagineer has earned it. In short, its familiarity without comprehension, without an understanding of the underlying currents which cause that aspect of WDW to exist.

Its human nature to build up something only for interests of tearing it down. Look at the way society treats its actors or other celebrities, they turn them into stars, then tear away at them to make them human. Unfortunately, Disney seems to suffer the same fate. WDW is held to an impossibly high standard, and a certain group of people seem to delight in pointing out the fallibilities instead of enjoying the magic (D-Troops, MiceAge, Jim Hill). Through pure demagoguery, these useless folks define their existence on having people read what they write, they are addicted to it. They are addicted to the rush of having people agree with them, no matter what they say. And its sad to say that they have those people agree with their ludicrous statements on a frightening level. But, what do they do when the real information runs out? They only have two choices... The first choice is easy, start writing about their own opinions, trying to shape the impressionable minds of their readers, getting the rush of power that comes from making somebody think they way they do. The second option is just as prevalent, and more than a little scarier, they make stuff up.

A paint chip will be repainted by the decorators of WDW as soon as it is discovered and called in, in many cases this will be overnight. However, there are people who will take a picture of that paint chip, or that broken bulb, and put it out on the internet where it will live forever... No understanding, no comprehension, just supposed familiarity. These people are the ones I don't understand, because they hate Walt Disney World... They hate going there, they only get angry being there, and want everyone else to be as angry... They want to tear Disney down. They talk about the people running the place with such hatred that I can only see coming from unabashed jealousy. They hate the park because they don't run the park. Just like those Monday Night Football armchair quarterbacks, they are really good at making decisions that they physically aren't able to follow through with. They understand how the game works, but they really don't comprehend the overall gameplan of the team.

I like WDWMagic, Steve is good at keeping people excited about the things that are coming, at looking at Walt Disney World in a positive light. And I am all for the discussion of Walt Disney World, I love reading trip reports and seeing how much fun people are having. I love seeing people ask simple questions and watch forum members jump at the chance to help their vacation plans out. All of my photo trip reports have struck a chord in select members simply because of they can see pictures of someone who still enjoys going to Walt Disney World, who still believes there is one Mickey Mouse, who still loves experiencing a ride for the first time by ACTUALLY RIDING IT.

Find that magic everyone, there is no reason not believe there is only one Mickey Mouse, there is no reason to actively seek out reasons to be disappointed, there is no reason to be dissatisfied because Stitch's Great Escape wasn't made for you.

There is reason for fun, and laughter, and joy.... and Magic

I just want to say that this was very well put - I share your sentiments and appreciate your comments! Great Post! :sohappy: