The Worst Thing to Happen to Walt Disney World

[Enderikari]

You must remember that there are those who love Disney vacations very much but who cannot afford to visit as often as they like. I think those people really appreciate being able to log on to a web site and "visit". Not everyone is as lucky as you may be..

Right, and here's the point several people seem to be missing... I love the WDWMagic community. This is the web forum that seems to be the most positive, the most pro-Disney. Logging on and seeing a trip report where a person had a steller time, or reading people debate if Liberty Tree Tavern is better than Crystal Palace, that is why I log on, for the positive community aspects, and those are the reasons that this web forum is good for folks who can't make it all the time. There are people on here that visit WDW daily, once a week or once a month, and most of us are glad to help you plan, and most of our information is better than any guidebook.

However, I don't want your virtual "visit" to be marred by all the folks who are criticizing what they really don't know about. I don't want you to be looking for the paint chips that you saw posted by some jerk a year ago. I don't want you to ride Expedition: Everest for the first time and know every show scene, every attraction part, and how fast the train car is going at the bottom of the big drop.
I want your experiences to be magical. I understand, probably better than a lot of people, how expensive it is to come to WDW, and I am not trying to sound elitist. I am trying to preserve the magical guest experience, when you CAN come WDW will be happy to see you, I just want people to be just as happy to see it.

 

[jakeman]

...I don't want your virtual "visit" to be marred by all the folks who are criticizing what they really don't know about. I don't want you to be looking for the paint chips that you saw posted by some jerk a year ago. I don't want you to ride Expedition: Everest for the first time and know every show scene, every attraction part, and how fast the train car is going at the bottom of the big drop.

I want your experiences to be magical. I understand, probably better than a lot of people, how expensive it is to come to WDW, and I am not trying to sound elitist. I am trying to preserve the magical guest experience, when you CAN come WDW will be happy to see you, I just want people to be just as happy to see it.

Although I appreciate your sentiment Ederikari, you cannot police the internet to preserve everyone's magical experience. I am in the same boat with many other posters, having been a former cast member and now a regular guest. The more I know, the more awe-inspiring it is.

Please feel free to correct me if my interpretation is wrong, but it seems through this post and others you have posted in other threads that preserving the magic is a colossal burden that you have placed on yourself (whether is be in or out of the parks).If that is a responsibility you feel that you must take, then so be it. In my opinion it would be like soaking up a tidal wave with a sponge.

For every D-Troops, there is a WDWMagic. The same can be said within the boards. For every "The Land will be Demolished and replaced with a Stitch meet and Greet" there is a "SWSA1K" (I hope that is the right abbreviation).

The internet is what it is. The user decides to be positive or negative. Most of us are adults and comprehend what we are reading and for the most part choose what to read. I chose to focus on the fact that before coming here I didn't know you could a carriage ride at French Quarter. I chose to ignore the threads about the Yeti because I wanted to be surprised.

I appreciate your point and your opinion is valid. However, I disagree that the information on Disney boards ruin the magic. It is what the user chooses to click on.

 

[Grim Grinner]

The internet side of Disney has opened new doors for me, allowing me to see yet more magic.

It also allows me to mourn for the lost rides such as Horizons which I feel had such an impact on my life. (Boundless enthusiasm about mankind, optimism)

At the parks I drift almost dreamlike through its paths, half aborbed in memories of the past- with new joys coming to me with each passing moment. I can think of no better place to go, and tears often fall when I think back.

There are those who are beligerant just for the sake of being so. But honest criticism is healthy. Debate and conjecture can be a blessing.

I feel that the only real complaints come when changes to the parks diminish the experience. This marketing savvy, focus group fixated perspective has harmed classics like the Tiki Room. Can you blame certain folks for watching something beloved fall further into obsolescence?

This site is by far my favorite, because there are many here who share my love and joy of the parks. A simple flayed paint chip may be bothersome, especially if you see a child eating it, but honestly WDW represents beauty on so many levels that only the most jaded individual will fail to see it.

Negativity can be healthy, when the criticism is warranted. I understand the need for the parks to grow, but somethings are TIMELESS and something that future generations should not be deprived of.

 

[Enderikari]

Although I appreciate your sentiment Ederikari, you cannot police the internet to preserve everyone's magical experience. I am in the same boat with many other posters, having been a former cast member and now a regular guest. The more I know, the more awe-inspiring it is.

Please feel free to correct me if my interpretation is wrong, but it seems through this post and others you have posted in other threads that preserving the magic is a colossal burden that you have placed on yourself (whether is be in or out of the parks).If that is a responsibility you feel that you must take, then so be it. In my opinion it would be like soaking up a tidal wave with a sponge.

For every D-Troops, there is a WDWMagic. The same can be said within the boards. For every "The Land will be Demolished and replaced with a Stitch meet and Greet" there is a "SWSA1K" (I hope that is the right abbreviation).

The internet is what it is. The user decides to be positive or negative. Most of us are adults and comprehend what we are reading and for the most part choose what to read. I chose to focus on the fact that before coming here I didn't know you could a carriage ride at French Quarter. I chose to ignore the threads about the Yeti because I wanted to be surprised.

I appreciate your point and your opinion is valid. However, I disagree that the information on Disney boards ruin the magic. It is what the user chooses to click on.

As a former cast member, than you too should know the burden of carrying the preservation of the Magical Guest Experience. Its a burden that (should) be carried by all CM's. And I have never backed down from a challenge because somebody told me it would be too hard.
And I am glad that you found out about the carriage rides in French Quarter, I personally love the carriage rides at WL and FW, but how would you feel if your introduction to the carriage rides were some ignorant poster saying, "dont goes on the carrage RiDe at RiVeR Quaarter, its the SuxxORrS?"

I don't see it as a fight for preserving the magical guest experience, though that is a personal goal of mine... Its a battle of negativity, partly based on my failure to understand people who HATE Disney, like Al Lutz, Kevin Yee, Jim Hill, Ghostbuster626, and why they choose to devote their time to tearing apart the magic.

Is Walt Disney World perfect? By All means no... But it is what it is. The most magical place in the World. I come to these boards to share an appreciation for the place that makes me happy when I visit it.
I love visiting Walt Disney World and am priveledged enough to visit it almost everyday. I still get a thrill when i see a family walk into the Magic Kingdom for the first time, and be so elated because Cinderella's Castle is there, direct from the storybooks, right in front of them.
There are people out there who just DON'T GET IT. They are not to be faulted for it, mainly pitied, until they try to push their misunderstanding on others. That's when I feel we should step in.

I love Walt Disney World for what it is, not what I want it to be... and there are a number of people out there who need to get that.

 

[Enderikari]

I feel that the only real complaints come when changes to the parks diminish the experience. This marketing savvy, focus group fixated perspective has harmed classics like the Tiki Room. Can you blame certain folks for watching something beloved fall further into obsolescence?

I certainly hope you have a comfortable armchair.

Meaning, the obsolescence would have come from leaving that attraction as the Enchanted Tiki Room, Walt Disney World is not a museum, nor was it ever intended to be. The Disney Parks were designed to always be an unfinished movie... in short, change is good.

 

[wannab@dis]

I feel that the only real complaints come when changes to the parks diminish the experience. This marketing savvy, focus group fixated perspective has harmed classics like the Tiki Room. Can you blame certain folks for watching something beloved fall further into obsolescence?

I think this is a perfect example of what the OP was all about.

If someone was new to WDW or had not been in several years, they may read that quote and immediately have a negative connotation for Tiki Room. While you may feel that way, others don't.... especially someone who has never been to the parks. Personally, I like the 'Under New Mgmt' version and I know several people that like it better than the original.

 

[dxwwf3]

I think this is a perfect example of what the OP was all about.

If someone was new to WDW or had not been in several years, they may read that quote and immediately have a negative connotation for Tiki Room. While you may feel that way, others don't.... especially someone who has never been to the parks. Personally, I like the 'Under New Mgmt' version and I know several people that like it better than the original.

I enjoy the show too, but I think it pales in comparison to the original and I know several people who don't like the new show without ever seeing the original. I understand it's not good for someone to have a negative connotation of the attraction, but we can't get to the point where only one point of view is accepted. And you should never feel forced to like something just because it's at Disney and we're supposed to like everything there.

I think the problem can be when someone is negative about everything (or is perceived to be negative about everything ) that comes along. Nobody should feel forced into having a certain opinion, and that goes both ways.

 

[Computer Magic]

Great thread Enderikari:

Couple comments

1. I still lay awake at nights anticipating that next magical vacation. We are going in Sept and the wife and I are excited and making plans....When we get there we forget about the real world....Did you see that new commercal from WDW where the kids are laying awake then they cut to the parents and they are awak in anticpating...
2. I agree what the Internet has done. I love this site, but being on this site leads to information that someone may not want. Before joining a site like this, people really need to understand what it leads to. If people want to be suprised by all the latest rides and not hear rumors or secrets, then this is not the site for someone.

However, it's just not the Internet. Look at EE and all the information being presented in TV specials. Last night I saw the Yeti on the Travel Channel and the ride being presented in a in a way that can ruin the magic. I have never seen this down before.

I enjoy your passion for keeping the magic alive.

 

[Glasgow]

I, too, can appreciate your sentiments, Enerikari. I can see where you are coming from. I also think that it's up to each person to interpret the information they see, hear or read and come to their own conclusion. If you generate your opinion based solely on something you read on the internet, then I have bridge in Brooklyn that I'd like to sell you .. real cheap ...

 

[jakeman]

As a former cast member, than you too should know the burden of carrying the preservation of the Magical Guest Experience. Its a burden that (should) be carried by all CM's.

I never saw it as a burden. To me the challenge was finding what was magical to each individual. If, on my safari, an adult seriously asked me a question about animal care, because they had an interest, then I would answer truthfully. As long as no children were around (that is who the magic should be preserved for). Perhaps the magic for that guest was knowing how well the animals were taken care of.

...how would you feel if your introduction to the carriage rides were some ignorant poster saying, "dont goes on the carrage RiDe at RiVeR Quaarter, its the SuxxORrS?"

I would hope that it would open a dialouge for other people to state what they did or did not like about the carriage rides. If the point of your posts are that we should be quick to jump to the defense of what is good about Disney, I agree. However, I feel that these boards do a good job of doing that.

...Its a battle of negativity, partly based on my failure to understand people who HATE Disney, like Al Lutz, Kevin Yee, Jim Hill, Ghostbuster626, and why they choose to devote their time to tearing apart the magic.

I will also agree that certain view points are difficult to understand. However, as I stated above, anything negative on these boards do seem to be balanced out by at least some people presenting opinions based in fact. That is the key, in my opinion. If your opinion cannot be supported by fact then it does not carry as much weight for me as someone who can support their arguement.

Not to speak of suspended member, but that was the main difference between Ghostbuster626 and Thrawn. Thrawn at least appeared to be able to support his opinion with fact; Ghostbuster626 could not. Thrawn crossed the line when he started to believe his opinion was fact.

There are people out there who just DON'T GET IT. They are not to be faulted for it, mainly pitied, until they try to push their misunderstanding on others. That's when I feel we should step in.

Again, I agree and I think many folks on the boards here do that.

I understand your concerns although I disagree with their severity and impacted on the magical experience of Walt Disney World.

Also, I might add that I am enjoying discussing this topic with you and I appreciate the tone the threads has had so far. This topic was one that could spiral out of control quickly.

 

[dxwwf3]

Thrawn crossed the line when he started to believe his opinion was fact.

:lol:

 

[WhyteAL]

You know I think for the most part your kinda right on what your saying Endrikari...But sometimes I think that those people you say write those negative experiences or paint chips or what ever. They might not see it as negative they may actually think that by what they are doing and pointing it this stuff out they may feel someone will take notice and address this problem. It might be their way of putting their two cents pointing out the problem they may even think they are helping the cause. I don't agree with them. But remember when any of us or all of us went for the first time and the place was just magic...it touched us, something positive about our childhood or what not. I think because of this nastalgia we have we want that moment preserved forever and be able to revisit it all the time. But times change and people change so things gotta change. Just like the internent not that disney needed this extra area to promote itself but everything has a positive and negative to it. (Well most everything) I don't like those websites that diss disney either and this is why I am a member of WDWmagic.com because I like the people here. I guess what I'm saying is you got positve and negative people and some people don't know they're negative and some people are positive but are so humble they don't realize it. So what we need to do is teach people to take peoples opion with a grain of salt understand it respect it appreciate it. And then go out and make up your mind for yourself. That would be the only way to change the system.

 

[wannab@dis]

You know I think for the most part your kinda right on what your saying Endrikari...But sometimes I think that those people you say write those negative experiences or paint chips or what ever. They might not see it as negative they may actually think that by what they are doing and pointing it this stuff out they may feel someone will take notice and address this problem. It might be their way of putting their two cents pointing out the problem they may even think they are helping the cause. I don't agree with them. But remember when any of us or all of us went for the first time and the place was just magic...it touched us, something positive about our childhood or what not. I think because of this nastalgia we have we want that moment preserved forever and be able to revisit it all the time. But times change and people change so things gotta change. Just like the internent not that disney needed this extra area to promote itself but everything has a positive and negative to it. (Well most everything) I don't like those websites that diss disney either and this is why I am a member of WDWmagic.com because I like the people here. I guess what I'm saying is you got positve and negative people and some people don't know they're negative and some people are positive but are so humble they don't realize it. So what we need to do is teach people to take peoples opion with a grain of salt understand it respect it appreciate it. And then go out and make up your mind for yourself. That would be the only way to change the system.

Good post.

There are a few people that seem to live for the day when they can take a picture of a "problem" and post it here. There's also those few that write the trip reports and don't mention one positive thing. That to me is problematic.

You may be right that they think their post could make a difference, but I can't really see anything positive about the approach. It's not like Maintenence is checking the internet sites to figure out what they should be working on. If we see a problem that we feel should be fixed quickly, we should send an email to guest services, call guest services or better yet, stop by and tell them in person while in the parks.

If we don't think it's worth the time to stop by City Hall, then why take the time to post it here? :veryconfu

 

[George]

That's a good point, Wannab@dis. Reporting things to WDW is a good idea, they are very responsive. Even big things. In February 2005 I was in a conversation with a CM at TLS and asked about the old SeaCab housing and mentioned it looked bad and said I thought it would be cool if they brought back the SeaCabs in some form, maybe even an updated ride. She gave me a number to call and said that over the years a lot of people had commented on this and they were thinking about doing something about it. Several months later I discovered wdwmagic and lo and behold, look what I found out was happening at TLS. I thought that was pretty cool. Even magical in a way.

 

[wannab@dis]

Guest Services will do their best to fix any problems that you see or have. If people don't tell them about a problem, it WILL take longer to be fixed or corrected.

Our magical story...
We scheduled our 1 year anniversary dinner at CRT and made the PS right as the window opened for them to accept it. (This was about 3 years ago so I think it was 90 days.) I don't remember the exact reason, but they closed early that evening (special event maybe) and had called our home phone 3 days earlier about the change. The only problem was we were already at WDW!

I went to City Hall and a very nice lady listened as I told the story. I asked a simple question at the end... "The PS is tied to our reservation... why didn't they look and see that we were already here and left a message in our room?"

She was very perplexed also and asked where we would like to eat dinner. It was already 6pm and I knew everything would be booked. We weren't even sure where we wanted to go and didn't want to spend an hour getting there. She suggested California Grill... called up the manager and they had a table waiting by the time we got off the Monorail! It was a wonderful evening and the service was superb.

Point of the story... a problem was turned from a negative experience to a positive outcome by guest services!

 

[slowbee]

I think the biggest think that isn't being said about Disney Magic is that it's not what the media or WDWMagic threads say about the park, the CEO's or comming attractions that we're all so wanting to see. If you remember about 50 years ago... a man had the vision to televise the building of Disneyland and show you what he was going to put into his park. Seems to me that it didn't change the magic that he was trying to create.

Disney Magic is what ever we want it to be.... I chose to remember my grandfather turning into a 5 year old boy once he walked thru the gates or my daughter learning to walk last month by walking up to Mickey Mouse and get her hugs or the countless memories that will forever fill my heart.... To me that's Disney Magic... and no Media guide, tourbook or spoiler page will ever alter that Magic......

 

[Grim Grinner]

Take my example of the Tiki Room. Is it in its current form outdated? I'd say yes.

Walking in with an open mind, actually one quite enthusiastic and hearing insulting comments from birds telling me that my opinion doesn't matter was a horrible experience.

Guests who had never seen it before were upset as well. My wife had never seen the original show, and I hadn't even noticed the "Under New Management" motiff upon arriving so I didn't tell her anything was different. She found the show mean spirited and far below the standards of any Disney attraction.

Using pop references takes away from the timeless nature of the classics. I think this was a move for the worse done by short-sighted opinions.

Now, we're starting to see creativity and love come back into the attractions. Everest is a prime example, and even the smaller attentions to detail in the parks can delight me as much as a super thrill ride can.

Sure, the parks were never meant to be a museum- but there is a difference between enhancing the experience and outright trashing it.

The Tiki room has one leg in the 90's, dating far worse than the original show. Watch any group of people leaving and you'll hear complaints.

To me, it's the equivalent of replacing the audio track of Carousel of Progress with non-stop farting because that type of humor is popular at the moment.

Compare DL to WDW and see which version has better reviews and more people churning through the turnstiles. That's an indication on whether or not it is beloved.

Plussing rides, like what's hitting the Haunted Mansion in DL sounds really cool, and despite my misgivings for POTC- It's not something that changes the heart of the ride.

Would you remove the castle because it's been there since the park's opening? Castles are outdated, fantasy is waning.

What was once popular will be once again.

We just happen to be on two differing perspectives here.

Change for change's sake is not always the best option.

 

[Enderikari]

Take my example of the Tiki Room. Is it in its current form outdated? I'd say yes.

Walking in with an open mind, actually one quite enthusiastic and hearing insulting comments from birds telling me that my opinion doesn't matter was a horrible experience.

Guests who had never seen it before were upset as well. My wife had never seen the original show, and I hadn't even noticed the "Under New Management" motiff upon arriving so I didn't tell her anything was different. She found the show mean spirited and far below the standards of any Disney attraction.

Using pop references takes away from the timeless nature of the classics. I think this was a move for the worse done by short-sighted opinions.

Now, we're starting to see creativity and love come back into the attractions. Everest is a prime example, and even the smaller attentions to detail in the parks can delight me as much as a super thrill ride can.

Sure, the parks were never meant to be a museum- but there is a difference between enhancing the experience and outright trashing it.

The Tiki room has one leg in the 90's, dating far worse than the original show. Watch any group of people leaving and you'll hear complaints.

To me, it's the equivalent of replacing the audio track of Carousel of Progress with non-stop farting because that type of humor is popular at the moment.

Compare DL to WDW and see which version has better reviews and more people churning through the turnstiles. That's an indication on whether or not it is beloved.

Plussing rides, like what's hitting the Haunted Mansion in DL sounds really cool, and despite my misgivings for POTC- It's not something that changes the heart of the ride.

Would you remove the castle because it's been there since the park's opening? Castles are outdated, fantasy is waning.

What was once popular will be once again.

We just happen to be on two differing perspectives here.

Change for change's sake is not always the best option.

So, in other words, yes, you do own a comfortable armchair....

 

[dxwwf3]

So, in other words, yes, you do own a comfortable armchair....

And he also made some fantastic points too.

 

[Grim Grinner]

Sadly I have no armchair, and I make a poor quarterback.

However I spent a decade in the entertainment industry as one of the creative minds behind something wonderful.

In my case, our marketing guys got their noses into the product and began to tell us why it wasn't good, despite it being the number one of its kind. Sooner or later we actually began to believe it.

When the changes to make our product came to make it hip and fashionable, we lost the very people who had made us what we were. We lost that intangible part that made us special and separated us from the competition.

When I see things at Disney that smack of marketing vs heart, It bothers me. Assuming the Tiki room in any form lasts for the next twenty years- which version would you think would be palatible to future tastes? A timeless version, or one rooted to a specific decade with references limited to a limited sphere of knowledge?

There's a reason why generation after generation come to the parks. So brilliant was Walt and crew's (gotta give 'em credit too) ideas that they've enchanted millions and have kept bringing us back.

No longer making the money I used to, flying down to WDW is a prohibitively expensive proposition. but still my wife and I go.

There's a reason why movies like Shrek will boom for a short time before withering, while the old classics still enchant us all. There's nothing wrong with Shrek, but its a temporary thrill that's stuck in its pop culture references.

Keep in mind, I believe those in Disney are finally starting to wake up to that fact. They don't go into the parks with the mindset of ruining an experience, but sometimes I don't think the imagineers are in charge- and fall sway to accounting, marketing and the lawyers.