The trees in front of Haunted Mansion have been cut down

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Ahhhhh show building visible....immersion ruined! I demand free tickets for life!
I wasn't there in the seventies, but, if they gave out free tickets for show buildings being visible, they gave away a whole lot of free tickets (books back then). :joyfull: I first went in 1983 and I never caught even a tiny vision of the show building I'm thinking that you would have had to be pretty tall to see it even then. Now across the river, well, that is a different story in the 70's.

It's funny when you talk about suspension of disbelief, I was 35 when I went there the first time, and once a year plus over thirty five more years and I don't even remember thinking about how much we rode through in the little building. Never even questioned it... it just did!

hauntedmansionplan-500x493.jpg
 

King Capybara 77

Thank you sir. You were an inspiration.
Premium Member
Yah know? It's possible that those trees were a bit sick :(. We don't know. It's poor if WDW allows a sick tree to fall, and crush people - just cleaning up the mess can be serious work :).

If NEW trees are going in? Perhaps this was not a "site line" thing?
But if a tree falls in an empty theme park and no one is there to hear it ,
Is it still the fault of ESPN ?
 

TJJohn12

Well-Known Member
If we are on the same page... it is the same entrance now as it always has been (with the recent addition toward the end of the queue of the interactive stuff. It just had no cover at the time ...even though the last few feet of the queue was covered the walkway was still part of the queue...

Passport to Dreams did an amazing post on the facade evolution of the Florida Mansion a few years back that in part helps to answer this question: https://passport2dreams.blogspot.com/2013/10/raising-or-lowering-dead.html

Here's one of the key images from that article:
Coats+-+Mansion+Final+71.png

When the mansion originally opened in 1971, the queue was *just* the segment after the ticket taker's booth on the left - which is where the canopy terminates today (where the Pepe le Queue fork point is). The canopy was not added until 1973, when the lines began ballooning for the keystone attraction. But even then, the line was only to the left against the wall at the RoA - there were no entrance gates for the mansion (those came in the 1990s). Again, Passports has some amazing posts that deal with how the HM has slowly invaded Liberty Square as its queue area and overall plot of land have increased here and here.
 
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Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Passport to Dreams did an amazing post on the facade evolution of the Florida Mansion a few years back that in part helps to answer this question: https://passport2dreams.blogspot.com/2013/10/raising-or-lowering-dead.html

Here's one of the key images from that article:
Coats+-+Mansion+Final+71.png

When the mansion originally opened in 1971, the queue was *just* the segment after the ticket taker's booth on the left - which is where the canopy terminates today (where the Pepe le Queue fork point is). The canopy was not added until 1973, when the lines began ballooning for the keystone attraction. But even then, the line was only to the left against the wall at the RoA - there were no entrance gates for the mansion (those came in the 1990s). Again, Passports has some amazing posts that deal with how the HM has slowly invaded Liberty Square as its queue area and overall plot of land have increased here and here.
I don't disagree, but, now we are nitpicking. There is no other place that walkway leads to. Even if it wasn't considered part of the queue it had a dual purpose of getting to the beginning of the sadly lacking actual official queue. Just like it was pointed out the HoP and CBR utilized space that wasn't originally designed as the queue, but, used as one. To say that the walkway was not used, when necessary as the queue, however, is not true. If it makes that much difference that something that has always been there and always used as a queue when needed doesn't alter a thing. It's always been there, designed as part of the HM from the beginning, was wide open until they did the canopy. So for the sake of complete accuracy lets call it the queue for the ticket taker line and the covered part as the queue for the HM. A queue of any other name would be as real.
 

larryz

I'm Just A Tourist!
Premium Member
Passport to Dreams did an amazing post on the facade evolution of the Florida Mansion a few years back that in part helps to answer this question: https://passport2dreams.blogspot.com/2013/10/raising-or-lowering-dead.html

Here's one of the key images from that article:
Coats+-+Mansion+Final+71.png

When the mansion originally opened in 1971, the queue was *just* the segment after the ticket taker's booth on the left - which is where the canopy terminates today (where the Pepe le Queue fork point is). The canopy was not added until 1973, when the lines began ballooning for the keystone attraction. But even then, the line was only to the left against the wall at the RoA - there were no entrance gates for the mansion (those came in the 1990s). Again, Passports has some amazing posts that deal with how the HM has slowly invaded Liberty Square as its queue area and overall plot of land have increased here and here.
Still, it's preferable to the queue-yard at HM DLR, where you wend your way back-and-forth-and-back-and-forth-and-to-and-fro in the side yard, then up the ramp to the front door of the mansion -- seeing all those people in line (a) discourages one from wanting to ride, and (b) kills the esthetic of the facade.

In FL, at least, we get to see the facade without the crowd.
 

Bocabear

Well-Known Member
Still, it's preferable to the queue-yard at HM DLR, where you wend your way back-and-forth-and-back-and-forth-and-to-and-fro in the side yard, then up the ramp to the front door of the mansion -- seeing all those people in line (a) discourages one from wanting to ride, and (b) kills the esthetic of the facade.

In FL, at least, we get to see the facade without the crowd.
with the new Doublewide Canopy you cannot even see the house as you wait in line because it is elevated above the view line...which is unfortunte...all you see are throngs of people...The Disneyland Queue across the lawn is not nearly as disturbing, and it is very easy to look up at the house all around you and soak up the details and get in the mood... Multiple ferbles of shoulder to shoulder people under a canopy followed by a riduculous interactive graveyard really kill the ambience of the attraction...
 

larryz

I'm Just A Tourist!
Premium Member
with the new Doublewide Canopy you cannot even see the house as you wait in line because it is elevated above the view line...which is unfortunte...all you see are throngs of people...The Disneyland Queue across the lawn is not nearly as disturbing, and it is very easy to look up at the house all around you and soak up the details and get in the mood... Multiple ferbles of shoulder to shoulder people under a canopy followed by a riduculous interactive graveyard really kill the ambience of the attraction...
I can see the house before I get there without the t-shirts and shorts and mid-life toddler meltdowns in the way... And don't forget that Disney is tuning their queues to appeal to the current generation. Just as the new generation wants IPs in Epcot, they also want interactivity in the (45-minute) stand-by queue.
 

ABQ

Well-Known Member
Anyone know what year the silly old turnstyle was finally removed from the queue itself? I remember it was there at least til the late 90's and I could never understand why, unless it as just to slow down traffic, though it created a massive bottleneck. Was way down by the current split to the "interactive" vs original queue.
 

geekza

Well-Known Member
As a haunted mansion, shouldn't the trees out front be dead? Maybe the could have just killed the trees instead of removing them?
Well, it was Walt's decision that the outside of the Mansion should be pristine. He was obsessive about keeping the parks looking like a showplace in every way. With that said, there is precedent for a more-weathered Mansion area. The grounds around the Tokyo version are overgrown, however it works better there because their mansion looks to be higher up on a hill. I'm just going by photos, so I could be wrong. Phantom Manor in DLP goes full-dilapidation. I really like the look of it. There are arguments on both sides, I guess. I think, though, with the rest of Liberty Square being so pristine, a run-down Mansion might really look out of place.
 

AshaNeOmah

Well-Known Member
Passport to Dreams did an amazing post on the facade evolution of the Florida Mansion a few years back that in part helps to answer this question: https://passport2dreams.blogspot.com/2013/10/raising-or-lowering-dead.html

Here's one of the key images from that article:
When the mansion originally opened in 1971, the queue was *just* the segment after the ticket taker's booth on the left - which is where the canopy terminates today (where the Pepe le Queue fork point is). The canopy was not added until 1973, when the lines began ballooning for the keystone attraction. But even then, the line was only to the left against the wall at the RoA - there were no entrance gates for the mansion (those came in the 1990s). Again, Passports has some amazing posts that deal with how the HM has slowly invaded Liberty Square as its queue area and overall plot of land have increased here and here.

This is exactly what I was referring to. The walkway was simply a pedestrian area, not a queue. The queue might have extended to there in the busy times, but the 'actual entrance' was to the far left of the walkway.
 

yensidtlaw1969

Well-Known Member
Well, it was Walt's decision that the outside of the Mansion should be pristine. He was obsessive about keeping the parks looking like a showplace in every way. With that said, there is precedent for a more-weathered Mansion area. The grounds around the Tokyo version are overgrown, however it works better there because their mansion looks to be higher up on a hill. I'm just going by photos, so I could be wrong. Phantom Manor in DLP goes full-dilapidation. I really like the look of it. There are arguments on both sides, I guess. I think, though, with the rest of Liberty Square being so pristine, a run-down Mansion might really look out of place.
Indeed, the Disneyland Mansion was designed to be pristine for fear that even an intentionally dilapidated building would reflect poorly on his park. Disneyland was working against the public mentality that amusement parks were dirty, unkempt places, and Walt felt so strongly about presenting the opposite that it carried over even to a supposedly haunted building.

The same logic was applied to the design of the MK Haunted Mansion, despite its more gothic facade. Back around opening the Liberty Square grounds looked like an Estate, intricately manicured but curiously designed. It always took me back to the Vanderbilt Mansion here in New York, which always felt like it was beautifully kept by zany people. There was something otherworldly about it because the over-the-top house was maintained with such real-world care and precision. It seems the Tokyo Mansion was similar on it's opening, but I can't say for sure.

Phantom Manor had to eschew this logic by nature of it's placement in Europe - the park was designed to cater to an audience that might be coming from any country in Europe and may speak any number of languages, so the best way to communicate clearly was visually. "Haunted Mansion" didn't translate nicely into many European languages, but "Phantom Manor" says the same thing in a way that meets more languages in the middle. But better than that, you can tell just from looking that the spooky, old, "Psycho"-looking House on the Hill is exactly what it looks like, and you know before you even come close to the sign if that kind of ride is up your alley or not. Thankfully by the 90's Disney had cemented the idea that their parks were clean, well-kempt places, and could afford to subvert this idea in the name of storytelling for Phantom Manor.

It seems they felt the same way when Splash Mountain came to Tokyo Disneyland that year in 1992, which resulted in some queue changes to their Haunted Mansion - some new, crumbling crypts were added, and the lawn started to grow over . . . I believe that's also when their famous broken window was added, it definitely wasn't there from the beginning. The early 90's must have been a turning point in the mind of the company, because it wasn't long after that the MK Mansion followed a similar lead of permitting a more derelict look to set in with a toppled fountain and less meticulous landscaping.

To round this out with my own opinion, I enjoyed those old trees on the front lawn, but look forward to giving the Mansion a look-over without them there. I'm willing to accept the Liberty Square Mansion as "overgrown", but it should be manicured within reason instead of truly overgrown. Generally I don't like the deforestation happening at The Magic Kingdom, but these trees had been left to grow beyond reason. If we could just find a way to do away with that canopy I'd be thrilled, though I won't hold my breath for that one.
 

Raineman

Well-Known Member
I think the best mix of "easy to see, but fit the theming" would be to not have large trees blocking the view of the Mansion facade, but have all of the grass, shrubbery, or any other low hanging plant life to grow fairly untouched. This gives the Mansion an abandoned feel without blocking the beautiful view of the facade.
 

Bocabear

Well-Known Member
I think the best mix of "easy to see, but fit the theming" would be to not have large trees blocking the view of the Mansion facade, but have all of the grass, shrubbery, or any other low hanging plant life to grow fairly untouched. This gives the Mansion an abandoned feel without blocking the beautiful view of the facade.
In Florida untouched is a whole different matter... I planted some shrubs that were not supposed to grow over 48 "... the shrub grew to well over 20' before I had to take it down.. Precise trimming to look untrimmed and unkempt is extremely difficult... I prefer keeping the facade clear and continuing everything else like it was...Just kept enough
 

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