The Spirited Sixth Sense ...

[The Empress Lilly]

There is absolutely no way that you can tell if a random child's cranky behavior at WDW is due to lack of sleep, lack of nutrition, over-stimulation, heat, dehydration, illness, or stress. Hell, if you were to live by the medical books for your trip to Disney World, then you'd better stay home. It breeds all of the things I just mentioned above, and a handful more.

That's my mantra too. If you want your kids to avoid lack of sleep, lack of nutrition, over-stimulation, heat, dehydration, illness, or stress then you'd beter stay away from WDW.

WDW is not toddler paradise, it is toddler tragedy. Young parents are misled by marketing or personal overexpectation that a trip to Disney is the greatest thing ever for their very young child. Whereas the average three year old has more fun playing with the dirt heap in grandmother's backyard than being dragged around a loud crowded place in a scorching 100 degrees for days in a row.

 

[pheneix]

That's been the buzz over at UO. Do you know what they want to replace the dino and poo-slinging monkey with? Or can you give any hints?

Nope. Not one. Sorry.

 

[jlsHouston]

Sorry to be the guy who lurks for 360 pages and then suddenly pipes in at random, but as one of those questionable adults you're calling out, I thought it would only be fair for me to respond.

I always enjoy, and often marvel at your posts, though I typically disagree with this sentiment you throw around (and most people around here seem to share) that Disney used to be a safe haven for teenagers and young adults that has now been overrun by stroller-bound toddlers and their brand-obsessed pixie dust-snorting rube parents. I think I may be of a different generation from you, but from about the age of 12 to my late 20s, I never considered Disney as a definite vacation destination. I also don't know anyone my age that felt any differently. And most of that was in the so-called "glory days" of Disney in the '90s.

I'm sure you and others can come back with a bunch of empirical and anecdotal evidence that supposedly disproves me. That's fine. But I'm not sure why you're taking the time to personally attack my parenting skills. The first time my parents took me to WDW was at age 3. The first time my wife went was age 5. We took my son at age 3. We all had an incredible (and for him, enriching) experience and though it's not the same level of greatness it once was, I'm not sure how I was being "played down to." We were those parents pushing our son around in a stroller at 10 PM, and he was loving it. If we were in the French Quarter or the Vegas Strip, I can understand your judgment. But I'm a questionable parent for pushing my son around the Magic Kingdom at 10 PM?

I don't think you are a questionable parent at all and I didn't read the post as an attack on anyones' parenting skills. But I think we are bringing our children and grandchildren into the parks at earlier and earlier ages. I think maybe, and of course I couldn't back this up with facts,in the 80's the families with grade school age children were a majority guest, and families with infants and small toddlers and preschoolers were the rarity. Demographics are different the past 10 years. For one thing more and more adults are starting families in their 30's, rather than 20's. They are more established usually by that point and can afford WDW vacations with small ones. Also we now have a vacation spot that has existed for a while, isn't it climbing towards the 50 mark? That implies several generations of families are passing on the tradition of vacationing at WDW.
And as you pointed out, WDW, is a vacation that you can enjoy with your child even at 10pm in the evening, since it is stroller friendly and child friendly compared to a trip to Vegas or NOLA. I would say TWDC has done an excellent job of marketing that aspect of WDW. And I kind of feel, the investments in the parks in the past 10 years have been geared more towards that market segment than say families with teenagers and young adults.

 

[flynnibus]

We have over 3000 years of crowd dynamics and almost 60 years of disney theme park dynamics. When it comes to Disney Parks people go left or right, then to whatever is new.

If it were only that simple... but it's not. Traffic, crowds, etc are still sampled, modeled, and lots of very smart people work on predicting behaviors.

 

[StageFrenzy]

If it were only that simple... but it's not. Traffic, crowds, etc are still sampled, modeled, and lots of very smart people work on predicting behaviors.

I will admit they are very smart people, they found a way to make money by making stuff up.

 

[GoofGoof]

I don't think you are a questionable parent at all and I didn't read the post as an attack on anyones' parenting skills. But I think we are bringing our children and grandchildren into the parks at earlier and earlier ages. I think maybe, and of course I couldn't back this up with facts,in the 80's the families with grade school age children were a majority guest, and families with infants and small toddlers and preschoolers were the rarity. Demographics are different the past 10 years. For one thing more and more adults are starting families in their 30's, rather than 20's. They are more established usually by that point and can afford WDW vacations with small ones. Also we now have a vacation spot that has existed for a while, isn't it climbing towards the 50 mark? That implies several generations of families are passing on the tradition of vacationing at WDW.
And as you pointed out, WDW, is a vacation that you can enjoy with your child even at 10pm in the evening, since it is stroller friendly and child friendly compared to a trip to Vegas or NOLA. I would say TWDC has done an excellent job of marketing that aspect of WDW. And I kind of feel, the investments in the parks in the past 10 years have been geared more towards that market segment than say families with teenagers and young adults.

Good points. There are also a lot more 2 income families now then there were in the 80s. More disposable income means more money for vacations. I know my first trip to WDW as a kid was after my mom went back to work part time. Probably spent half a years pay on the trip. Don't try to tell my parents that WDW wasn't expensive in the 80s.

 

[RSoxNo1]

So.... word on the street is that a dinosaur who appears on public TV and a near by children's playground are set to disappear faster than a monkey can sling poo.

Yes, but aren't the two unrelated?

 

[flynnibus]

I will admit they are very smart people, they found a way to make money by making stuff up.

Your response doesn't surprise me. There are tons of things in the world consumers have no idea that the result was actually explicitly researched and designed.. and not just by chance. From how many checkout counters there are, to timings, to the size of a space.

It's sad that people are dismissive of the analysis vs respect it's purpose. Even Walt used predictive analysis to decide where to build his parks.

 

[culturenthrills]

The puking toddler I saw at MNSSHP close to midnight was having loads of fun.

LOL. Funniest post I read all day. Thanks for the laugh.

 

[Rodan75]

How is belittling parenting choices material for this thread? This is petty and silly.

 

[StageFrenzy]

Your response doesn't surprise me. There are tons of things in the world consumers have no idea that the result was actually explicitly researched and designed.. and not just by chance. From how many checkout counters there are, to timings, to the size of a space.

It's sad that people are dismissive of the analysis vs respect it's purpose. Even Walt used predictive analysis to decide where to build his parks.

Yes the modern retail environment is carefully planned, designed and crafted to give the customer the most positive shopping experience. Apple stores are examples of a store that has been carefully crafted to give every shopper the” Apple experience”. Yet the only experience that I get from entering one these days is one of desperation and tension. The stores are always crowded and the customer tension is high from everyone trying to get their devices fixed by the genius bar. Or a grocery store has 12 checkout counters only five are open and each line has five people in it. So despite the carefully planned retail environment, the experience sucked. That’s not including the fact that people are Richards and even when everything goes according to planned the customer or employee having a bad day can screw the pooch.
Statistics and data are a lot of fun to look at, things like predictive models and focus groups are useful tools. Whenever statisticians get a tiny bit of data they always want more numbers though. The problem is other people get a hold of statistics and models then start going crazy postulating all sorts of things that the number don’t touch. Look how Disney uses their current statistical tools like the customer survey, they use it to confirm what they already “know”. The dead guy wanted a place to spend the weekend with his daughters and he lived in LA. As far as the Florida project, it was sunny and land was cheap. Mostly land was cheap.
tl:dr- I’m dismissive of the people who act on analysis, not the analysis.

 

[PhotoDave219]

The puking toddler I saw at MNSSHP close to midnight was having loads of fun.

Hey that was a 24 year old college program girl - she was a midget - and she snuck in a flask!

 

[PhotoDave219]

How is belittling parenting choices material for this thread? This is petty and silly.

Its that or my previous relationship history. (See also, "PML")

 

[Cesar R M]

Well I agree with both of you. From an outsider standpoint, or maybe I should say consumer I feel like the MM+ investment is alot of infrastructure expense for a return the company and the guest may never truly see. Sort of like they bit off more than they can chew.
On the other hand, what little I've gathered of TWDC execs, you are not going to get a lot of detailed public explanations EVER from them. They will talk about success exactly as @flynnibus describes and discussions of writedowns or expenses due to delays will get very little mention if any at all.

I think the issue; is why TWDC used the excuse of "magic bands" to sell the idea to the people?. When in reality they were doing more of an internal structural change and backbone systems upgrade!.

 

[jlsHouston]

I think the issue; is why TWDC used the excuse of "magic bands" to sell the idea to the people?. When in reality they were doing more of an internal structural change and backbone systems upgrade!.

I have no clue..make some cash back selling them to off site day visitors? Track crowd movements and purchasing trends? Maybe they are cheaper than the cards to manufacture? Because they are the hardware to the software clouds they are creating for vacation planning?

 

[Nubs70]

We have over 3000 years of crowd dynamics and almost 60 years of disney theme park dynamics. When it comes to Disney Parks people go left or right, then to whatever is new.

We may have 3000 years of static crowd dynamic data and 60 years of static Disney theme park dynamics. MM+ will yield real time crowd dynamics. MM+ is to static crowd dynamics as MRI is to X-Rays.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I think the issue; is why TWDC used the excuse of "magic bands" to sell the idea to the people?. When in reality they were doing more of an internal structural change and backbone systems upgrade!.

You most likely have it backwards. The Company had to be sold on a means of generating revenue from the systems upgrades.

 

[StageFrenzy]

We may have 3000 years of static crowd dynamic data and 60 years of static Disney theme park dynamics. MM+ will yield real time crowd dynamics. MM+ is to static crowd dynamics as MRI is to X-Rays.

A lot of people can read an x-ray, fewer can read a MRI. All people can read an x-ray and MRI wrong.

 

[Lee]

Oh it ended in Drama.... probably was a mistake to let that go....

Drama?

 

[Cesar R M]

You most likely have it backwards. The Company had to be sold on a means of generating revenue from the systems upgrades.

really good point there.
and no wonder they are now pushing the magicbands for sell now XD