The Spirited Sixth Sense ...

[GiveMeTheMusic]

I thought Hans was a great twist. When I saw the film, most of the theatre gasped audibly, with a couple no he didn't's and girrrrrl peppered through the crowd. It was effective.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

You lost me at Gaston is a great Villain.

KILL THE BEAST!!!!
Cookie cutter as they come.

Good to know that you're willing to dismiss and argument instead of presenting your own, but not really when you delve deeper. He's an interesting and great villain for a great many reasons. He doesn't even start out as a straight up villain in the traditional sense, more just an arrogant jerk that subscribes to the same narrow minded views as the rest of society around him. The villagers feed and enable his behavior and are arguably just as stupid and potentially evil as he is as seen when he manages to instigate a mob to go kill the beast (it's not actually an unrealistic look at how many real people act when presented with political propaganda to invade a country). It's interesting because in another Disney movie (though less embellished), he could for all we know pass for the male prince we usually see (who are rarely given any development and could be just as bad as Gaston behind their facades). He's always a complete arrogant jerk but it does take him time to transform completely into an obsessed psychotic lunatic. He goes from bad to far worse, but it's development nonetheless. We do see him change as a character beyond a cheap twist shoehorned in to shock people who couldn't see it coming a mile away. Frollo has a similar character arc of going from bad seed who thinks he's doing right to complete psycho willing to kill everyone to get something (and that something he wants adds even more dynamics to his character due to the way it erodes his sanity from being a sin against his beliefs).

In the beginning, you could argue that the Beast is the real villain. The backstory makes it quite clear that he is very similar in nature to Gaston- inwardly selfish and non caring towards people around him. The difference is that unlike Gaston (who is held in high regard basically as the leader by the rest of the village due to his physical appearance and strength) he was cursed to have a face that matched his personality. And unlike Gaston, Belle manages to change him for the better.

I thought Hans was a great twist. When I saw the film, most of the theatre gasped audibly, with a couple no he didn't's and girrrrrl peppered through the crowd. It was effective.

Just seemed like a less shocking and blander written version of the Stinky Pete twist to me. And unlike Pete, I saw it coming from a mile away. I was wishing they didn't even bother with a villain because I didn't feel it even needed one by that point. It just felt shoehorned in at the last second just for the sake of adding someone who was evil. Underneath he really is nothing more than a cookie cutter villain that hides in the shadows waiting to pop up to say "haha and I was the villain all along".

 

[PhotoDave219]

It just goes to show how blatantly out of touch most Disney execs are with what people want. Getting blindsided by Frozen's success is inexcusable, and if it were a real company, heads would roll.

The thing is, the bigger you screw up at Disney, the bigger your promotion. Look at Jay Rasulo!

Just reinforces that the current business-oriented regime wouldnt know creativity if it bit them.

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

Why do you need a strictly defined and archetypal villain? I thought it was refreshing not to have a lingering threat waiting in the background as part of a checklist to get to the finish.

I thought Hans was a great twist. When I saw the film, most of the theatre gasped audibly, with a couple no he didn't's and girrrrrl peppered through the crowd. It was effective.

Yep, this. It's very refreshing to see a good girl turned kinda villain but not really because you like her and are rooting for her at the same time. It's a very well defined dynamic and was played out very well.

THIS POST CONTAINS SPOILERS, DO NOT READ THE REST IF YOU HAVENT SEEN THE MOVIE.









The thing with Hans was a real gasp moment that no one saw coming...it was very effective at what it was striving to do. In that case, he was a good guy turned bad but you really liked him up to that point.

Olaf added a comical layer to the movie and Sven the reindeer helped with that.

But most of all I liked the message of the movie. True love doesn't have to be your first boyfriend or the man you'll marry. True love is family. There's no love quite like the bond between two sisters close in age. That bond strengthened at the coronation, and shown through beautifully. The bond beamed at the end if the film as well. That right there, my forum friends, is a great message to be had. Especially in our times now, where life is what it is and for a lot of people, there's not much hope left. This movie gives you hope. It's incredibly uplifting.

The hit song says it all. Let it go. The anger, the nonconformity, the judgemental views that others have. Screw it. Let it go. I love that.

 

[Redhawk]

Seeing the incredibly stupid early teasers of Frozen centering around stupidity with Olaf didn't help my expectations any (who yeah is a very annoying and unfunny character but graciously shoved to the side in favor of the other main characters so we didn't have to put up with him TOO much). I went into Frozen expecting garbage and came away pleasantly surprised at how surprisingly solid it was...

I am not a huge fan of Disney animation (after the Golden Age), having been disappointed for many years, but I was interested in seeing "Frozen". When I saw the trailer, however, I thought Olaf was annoying and stupid talking about his "little nose". That trailer turned me off and I didn't go on opening weekend as I had intended. So I didn't see the film until Dec 23, and to my surprise I loved Olaf!

I enjoyed the entire story and animation, much more than I expected, but it was Olaf who stole my heart. Later I saw an interview with Josh Gad (who voiced Olaf) and he discussed his effort to portray Olaf as an innocent child. I totally got it, and that was the character's charm. I've watched his scenes over an over again and find little things I love in his animation, for example, when Anna tells Kristoff not to go into Elsa's castle with her, Olaf silently walks from Kristoff's side over to Elsa's. To me it's hilarious and very subtle but true to the character. I'm not disagreeing with anyone's opinion but it surprises me that so many people say that he's annoying and not funny. Olaf has become my favorite Disney character of all time.

 

[novawildcat18]

I am not a huge fan of Disney animation (after the Golden Age), having been disappointed for many years, but I was interested in seeing "Frozen". When I saw the trailer, however, I thought Olaf was annoying and stupid talking about his "little nose". That trailer turned me off and I didn't go on opening weekend as I had intended. So I didn't see the film until Dec 23, and to my surprise I loved Olaf!

I enjoyed the entire story and animation, much more than I expected, but it was Olaf who stole my heart. Later I saw an interview with Josh Gad (who voiced Olaf) and he discussed his effort to portray Olaf as an innocent child. I totally got that and that was the character's charm. I've watched his scenes over an over again and find little things I love in his animation, for example, when Anna tells Kristoff not to go into Elsa's castle with her, Olaf silently walks from Kristoff's side over to Elsa's. To me it's hilarious and very subtle but true to the character. I'm not disagreeing with anyone's opinion but it surprises me that so many people say that he's annoying and not funny. Olaf has become my favorite Disney character of all time.

I felt the same way. I was so turned off to this movie, I thought I was going to hate it. Mostly due to how much I thought that I would hate Olaf. He was portrayed in the commercials and trailers to be the annoying side-kick used for cheap, non-deserving laughs. But honestly, Olaf's character was done perfectly (largely in part to Josh Gad's timing and delivery). And yes, Olaf has become one of my favorite characters as well.

On a related side-note, I saw a guest at WDW wearing a Hawaiian-type shirt a few weeks ago that was decorated with Olaf participating in his summer activities. I need to find this shirt, but I can't seem to find it anywhere online. Does anyone know what shirt I'm talking about?

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

I am not a huge fan of Disney animation (after the Golden Age), having been disappointed for many years, but I was interested in seeing "Frozen". When I saw the trailer, however, I thought Olaf was annoying and stupid talking about his "little nose". That trailer turned me off and I didn't go on opening weekend as I had intended. So I didn't see the film until Dec 23, and to my surprise I loved Olaf!

I enjoyed the entire story and animation, much more than I expected, but it was Olaf who stole my heart. Later I saw an interview with Josh Gad (who voiced Olaf) and he discussed his effort to portray Olaf as an innocent child. I totally got it, and that was the character's charm. I've watched his scenes over an over again and find little things I love in his animation, for example, when Anna tells Kristoff not to go into Elsa's castle with her, Olaf silently walks from Kristoff's side over to Elsa's. To me it's hilarious and very subtle but true to the character. I'm not disagreeing with anyone's opinion but it surprises me that so many people say that he's annoying and not funny. Olaf has become my favorite Disney character of all time.

The same thing happened to me!

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

I liked Sven and how Kristoff pretended to be his voice (that Reindeer are Better than People was a pretty silly little song too), found it somewhat cute (though the voice Kristoff used was a bit obnoxious, it was still a funny idea and was rather endearing). Also liked how Sven felt more like an actual animal, his personality wasn't exaggerated and his character overused like Maximus from Tangled. I thought Max was funny but it was really ridiculous and distracting seeing him act like a cartoony slapstick Looney Toons animal (not that there's anything wrong with Looney Toons but they don't feel right in a Disney movie like Tangled or Frozen). Sven was underplayed and I enjoyed that (was very worried from teaser trailers that they were going to focus on him and make it a stupid silly movie throughout).

I didn't like Olaf at all. I've heard people describe him as "Snow Mater" and that isn't far off. I find him just as annoying but far less funny than Mater (despite Mater's stupidity and obnoxiousness, he did get a chuckle out of me every so often from just HOW annoying he could be whereas Olaf was just boringly annoying). Agree with '74 about him being more annoying than the gargoyles in Hunchback (the only serious nagging flaw I had with that movie, though they did at least get some good lines every now and there). I heavily disliked Olaf from the moment I saw the early teasers. My opinion definitely hasn't changed regarding him and the final product, but i'm at least glad he doesn't become the absolute center of attention like Mater did (he just pollutes the background scenes sometimes). But I still would have preferred the movie without him, to get more screentime and focus on infinitely more interesting characters such as Elsa. I wanted to see more of Elsa and was disappointed in her somewhat lacking screentime (particularly all the time they dedicated to Olaf which could have gone to Elsa instead). I feel Hans should have either been removed or rewritten as a character, either to focus more on Elsa or to make his character better. As I said, I was actually warming up to the movie not even having a traditional villain at all (would have preferred exploring Elsa some more).

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

I felt the same way. I was so turned off to this movie, I thought I was going to hate it. Mostly due to how much I thought that I would hate Olaf. He was portrayed in the commercials and trailers to be the annoying side-kick used for cheap, non-deserving laughs. But honestly, Olaf's character was done perfectly (largely in part to Josh Gad's timing and delivery). And yes, Olaf has become one of my favorite characters as well.

On a related side-note, I saw a guest at WDW wearing a Hawaiian-type shirt a few weeks ago that was decorated with Olaf participating in his summer activities. I need to find this shirt, but I can't seem to find it anywhere online. Does anyone know what shirt I'm talking about?

I do and check disneystore dot com. I also saw a few home made ones on various one day only print websites... Tee fury I think it was. Or try etsy. Or give me enough time and I'll make you one!

 

[Redhawk]

On a related side-note, I saw a guest at WDW wearing a Hawaiian-type shirt a few weeks ago that was decorated with Olaf participating in his summer activities. I need to find this shirt, but I can't seem to find it anywhere online. Does anyone know what shirt I'm talking about?

Must. find. that. shirt! I want the beach towel but several reviewers say it's on the thin side and not the quality they've gotten in other Disney towels.

I liked Sven and how Christoff pretended to be his voice (that Reindeer are Better than People was a pretty silly little song too), found it somewhat cute (though the voice Christoff used was a bit obnoxious, it was still a funny idea and was rather endearing). ... Sven was underplayed and I enjoyed that (was very worried from teaser trailers that they were going to focus on him and make it a stupid silly movie throughout).

I didn't like Olaf at all. I've heard people describe him as "Snow Mater" and that isn't far off, but I find him just as annoying but far less funny than Mater.

Yes, I was also turned off by Sven in the trailers and pleasantly surprised by how well he was used in the film.

Mater is my most hated Pixar character. (I don't think I hate any other Pixar characters.) Horrified and saddened that anyone would find him comparable to my beloved Olaf! (But to each his own.)

 

[Redhawk]

Speaking of the Hawaiian shirt with Olaf motif, I wish Disney would make in adult sizes the children's t-shirt that depicts Olaf and says "I like warm hugs". Would have loved to buy it in a large size to wear as a night shirt this winter. Oh well, thanks Disney Marketing for being too stupid to get more of my money.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

I think Olaf would have been at least somewhat better (perhaps even great in the hands of talented writer from the renaissance era films) had he not been a comic relief type of character. Given he and Elsa's connection, I could see him working better as more serious but hopeful and kind (but perhaps with hints of sadness) character. I was enjoying the subtle but endearing and cute comedy Anna herself provided (with her clumsiness and over the top romantic nature), and I was liking Kristoff and Sven as well. Was really digging the movie's comedic moments up until Olaf showed up. Didn't care for the comedy he brought to it. And again, I would have preferred more of Elsa, equalizing her screentime better with Anna.

EDIT- Spelled Kristoff wrong, oops.

 

[Phil12]

In the beginning, you could argue that the Beast is the real villain. The backstory makes it quite clear that he is very similar in nature to Gaston- inwardly selfish and non caring towards people around him. The difference is that unlike Gaston (who is held in high regard basically as the leader by the rest of the village due to his physical appearance and strength) he was cursed to have a face that matched his personality. And unlike Gaston, Belle manages to change him for the better.

When the zombie apocalypse comes, I want a guy just like Gaston leading the charge!

 

[novawildcat18]

See, I also strongly dislike Mater. Well, I strongly dislike most aspects of Cars in all honesty. But Mater was (mostly) used as the comic relief for cheap laughs. Maybe Olaf's sense of humor was more my type, but from everyone I've talked to about it, they seem to be in love with Olaf. A lot more so than anyone was with Mater.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I liked Sven and how Christoff pretended to be his voice (that Reindeer are Better than People was a pretty silly little song too), found it somewhat cute (though the voice Christoff used was a bit obnoxious, it was still a funny idea and was rather endearing). Also liked how Sven felt more like an actual animal, his personality wasn't exaggerated and his character overused like Maximus from Tangled. I thought Max was funny but it was really ridiculous and distracting seeing him act like a cartoony slapstick Looney Toons animal (not that there's anything wrong with Looney Toons but they don't feel right in a Disney movie like Tangled or Frozen). Sven was underplayed and I enjoyed that (was very worried from teaser trailers that they were going to focus on him and make it a stupid silly movie throughout).

I didn't like Olaf at all. I've heard people describe him as "Snow Mater" and that isn't far off. I find him just as annoying but far less funny than Mater (despite Mater's stupidity and obnoxiousness, he did get a chuckle out of me every so often from just HOW annoying he could be whereas Olaf was just boring and annoying). Agree with '74 about him being more annoying than the gargoyles in Hunchback (the only serious nagging flaw I had with that movie, though they did at least get some good lines every now and there). I heavily disliked Olaf from the moment I saw the early teasers. My opinion definitely hasn't changed regarding him and the final product, but i'm at least glad he doesn't become the absolute center of attention like Mater did (he just pollutes the background scenes sometimes). But I still would have preferred the movie without him, to get more screentime and focus on infinitely more interesting characters such as Elsa. I wanted to see more of Elsa and was disappointed in her somewhat lacking screentime (particularly all the time they dedicated to Olaf which could have gone to Elsa instead). I feel Hans should have either been removed or rewritten as a character, either to focus more on Elsa or to make his character better. As I said, I was actually warming up to the movie not even having a traditional villain at all (would have preferred exploring Elsa some more).

"Reindeer Are Better Than People" was the best song in the entire movie, in my opinion. "Let It Go" is not that great, and a lot of people ruined that song for me.

Olaf is one of the most annoying characters Disney has created in a while.

I guess I was one of few who knew Hans wasn't a good character before the twist was revealed.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

I'm not about to defend Mater or anything, don't get me wrong. But I will say that I suspect the writers were being completely self aware while writing him. His voice actor further nails that point down. I fully believe he was intended to be annoying and insultingly stupid in an exaggerated way. And for that, the writers succeeded in their job. Now i'm not saying he's not completely obnoxious and idiotic, or that he's a good character that should have been created. But I am saying that the end result in how the viewers perceive him is likely exactly what the writers intended. I could be wrong, but the evidence points towards a self awareness as to how insultingly obnoxious he is (Larry the Cable Guy being the voice provides even more evidence that this was the intention). And they got a couple of laughs out of me here and there if for no other reason than the intentionally over the top and stupidly self aware nature in which Mater was written.

I don't think Olaf was written with the self aware intention of being obnoxiously over the top, but they only succeeded in the obnoxious part and not the comedic part for me.

"Reindeer Are Better Than People" was the best song in the entire movie, in my opinion. "Let It Go" is not that great, and a lot of people ruined that song for me.

Olaf is one of the most annoying characters Disney has created in a while.

I guess I was one of few who knew Hans wasn't a good character before the twist was revealed.

Yeah I liked the Reindeer song. I have grown on Do You Wanna Build a Snowman to an extent though. I think the problems with Let it Go though go beyond even the stand alone song itself. Audio wise I don't really love it or hate it, has good moments and bad moments but overall kind of meh (again also IMO the World of Color arrangement is way better than the movie version). But beyond the way it sounds, I also feel it's sometimes awkwardly choreographed to the events happening onscreen. It's something I can't quite put my finger on and explain, but there's something that feels off about it...

I had guessed Hans wasn't such a nice dude quite early as well. And i'm not trying saying that in an attempt to puff my chest out and say i'm awesome for predicting a big plot twist or anything (far from it), it just felt inevitable due to the extremely non-subtle jabs the movie was making towards fairy tale stereotypes. Particularly old Disney movies with their unrealistic views on romance and extreme concepts of good and bad in people. The sled scene between Anna and Kristoff was pretty blatant in the way it pokes fun at people falling in love instantly and getting married that day (which btw was done in a much more hilarious and entertaining way in Enchanted IMHO). It was basically "OMG, what the heck is wrong with you, you got engaged to a person you JUST met? WTH...". Now that is definitely NOT not a bad thing to question at all, i'm actually glad to see it in a Disney movie when written well (though they need WAY more subtlety than to just shout it at their audiences as if preaching to them). But regardless of the validity of questioning a 1 hour romance, it did completely ruin the twist early on and Hans' character as a whole. But even without that there was already something off about Hans anyways though, his voice actor seemed to have a hard time putting on a kind hearted facade, so when Hans was trying to act nice it sounded non-genuine. And it got even more blatant when he was acting out a white knight for Elsa while trying to capture her.

 

[TP2000]

Well @tirian I think I'm the only person who has yet to see it or see what the fuss is about it. Does that make me lucky?

You aren't the only one. I haven't seen it, haven't ordered the DVD, and have no plans to. It's just another pukey princess movie as far as I'm concerned, but then I'm a grumpy old man. And I'm Scandinavian and my first name is Thor, to boot. So if the theme and setting for this movie didn't get me, pop culture hype certainly won't.

 

[cheezbat]

Frozen was ok. Not amazing. Not the best animated movie since Lion King. The songs were decent.
I'm not buying the movie.

On another subject...Walking Dead...called that one tonight! My girlfriend was so upset! I love when they actually throw something like that at us, the audience. Good times.

So...any news and rumors regarding WDW?

Anyone?

 

[TP2000]

Was disney truly THAT blindsided by the success of Frozen that they didn't order enough/have enough available merchandise to meet demands?

I popped into the Disney Store @ south hills village mall in search of, hopefully, an Elsa dress (I know, fat chance. Haven't seen one since November) or an Anna dress for my little cousins upcoming 4th birthday. The entire store did not have a single item of Frozen merchandise.

Dateline Disneyland is reporting this weekend that shops in Disneyland and DCA and Downtown Disney Anaheim all have Frozen dresses and merchandise available in advance of the DVD release. These photos were taken this weekend...

So maybe Disney's merchandise team are purposely moving the product to the parks and abandoning the big box stores around the country? There's obviously a run on the merchandise, so Disney would be wise to have the stuff available in the theme parks in Anaheim and Orlando where the profit margins are much higher than the stuff being sold at a Target in Ohio.

But I agree that Disney's merchandise team really missed the boat on Frozen and how popular it turned out to be. Even the theme parks were caught flat footed in getting the meet n' greets firing on all cylinders and moving the Frozen princesses into the higher capacity Fairytale Hall facilities in Disneyland and Magic Kingdom Park. And they needed a much bigger theme park presence than they got, aside from the predictable meet n' greets.

A BIG miss on the Frozen craze from the synergy experts in Burbank.

 

[danv3]

I am not a huge fan of Disney animation (after the Golden Age), having been disappointed for many years, but I was interested in seeing "Frozen". When I saw the trailer, however, I thought Olaf was annoying and stupid talking about his "little nose". That trailer turned me off and I didn't go on opening weekend as I had intended. So I didn't see the film until Dec 23, and to my surprise I loved Olaf!

I enjoyed the entire story and animation, much more than I expected, but it was Olaf who stole my heart. Later I saw an interview with Josh Gad (who voiced Olaf) and he discussed his effort to portray Olaf as an innocent child. I totally got it, and that was the character's charm. I've watched his scenes over an over again and find little things I love in his animation, for example, when Anna tells Kristoff not to go into Elsa's castle with her, Olaf silently walks from Kristoff's side over to Elsa's. To me it's hilarious and very subtle but true to the character. I'm not disagreeing with anyone's opinion but it surprises me that so many people say that he's annoying and not funny. Olaf has become my favorite Disney character of all time.

I'm with you. From the trailers, I expected to find Olaf pretty annoying, and I immediately drew the comparison in my mind to Mater, whom I really don't like.

When I saw the movie, Olaf was the star. I thought he was hilarious, and apparently so did the other adults in the theater with me, who were literally laughing out loud at his antics. I don't think it's a stretch at all to say he's the best Disney comic relief since Timon and Pumbaa.

Frozen isn't my favorite Disney animated feature, and it's not the best one since Lion King (it's no Hunchback) but it's absolutely a great film and one of the best they've done any time recently.

I'm actually pretty surprised to see some of the negative views here.

Looking forward to buying the DVD tomorrow.