The Spirited Sixth Sense ...

[ParentsOf4]

Yes, EPCOT was never unpopular and never a failure. Take a look back at its numbers, numbers from an era when they weren't manipulated and twisted in so many ways.

Walt Disney Productions was on the verge of disaster, that really could have had the company sold in pieces, and because it had just spent $1 billion to open EPCOT Center, it was a popular thing to blame it. Was not the case. No more than developing the Disney Channel or TDL or starting Touchstone Pictures were unpopular and causes for Disney's issues.

MK and then EPCOT both carried WDP through the lean years. In FY1983 (EPCOT's first 12 months of operation), WDW official attendance jumped from 12.5M to 22.7M, and those were the days when Disney advertising was minimal and they rarely offered discounts.

The forerunner of what later became Parks & Resorts operating income jumped from $132M to $197M on revenue growth from $726M to $1.031B. That's a gross margin of 19.1% in 1983, when the parks were laser focused on quality. No petty penny-pinching; show came first.

Let's not forget that a 3-day park hopper cost $35 (with tax), $82 adjusted for inflation.

Those were the days when the parks were empty for the better part of four months of the year and food was reasonably priced.

Really incredible numbers.

In 2013, Parks and Resorts realized $2.220B on operating income of $14.087B, a gross margin of 15.8%.

After the latest increase, a 3-day park hopper is $344 (with tax).

Disney spends a billion per year on advertising and WDW runs a nearly perpetual "30% off" room discount year round, along with gimmicks like raising the price of a 5-day ticket by $15 and then offering a $10 limited-time discount.

Today's nickel-and-diming achieves worse results than WDW in its Golden Age.

There's a lesson to be learned there.

Too bad no one at Disney is listening.

 

[tirian]

Many younger WDW fans don't realize that at one time, every special effect worked on every attraction, it was easy to walk into a restaurant, meals included custom napkins and after-dinner chocolates, and the landscaping was impeccable. In other words, it operated as a world-class entertainment resort, not a hyper-planned way to live a Disney life.

To the lifestylers: as much as you love it now, it used to be so much better.

MK and then EPCOT both carried WDP through the lean years. In FY1983 (EPCOT's first 12 months of operation), WDW official attendance jumped from 12.5M to 22.7M, and those were the days when Disney advertising was minimal and they rarely offered discounts.

Operating income jumped from $132M to $197M on revenue growth from $726M to $1.031B. That's a gross margin of 19.1% in 1983, when the parks were laser focused on quality. No petty penny-pinching; show came first.

Let's not forget that a 3-day park hopper cost $35 (with tax), $82 adjusted for inflation.

Those were the days when the parks were empty for the better part of four months of the year and food was reasonably priced. Really incredible numbers.

In 2013, Parks and Resorts realized $2.220B on operating income of $14.087B, a gross margin of 15.8%.

After the latest increase, a 3-day park hopper is $344 (with tax).

Disney spends a billion per year on advertising and WDW runs a nearly perpetual "30% off" room discount year round, along with gimmicks like raising the price of a 5-day ticket by $15 and then offering a $10 limited-time discount.

Today's nickel-and-diming achieves worse results than WDW in its Golden Age.

There's a lesson to be learned there.

Too bad no one at Disney is listening.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

It's telling that Pop Century has a concierge, same as the Grand or Poly. I've had a couple friends fill the role--maybe 2 days of training. In terms of pay and prestige, it's essentially equivalent to front desk. In other words, TDO uses the term, but it doesn't mean what it means elsewhere in the industry.

Then again, as we've discussed before, most signature restaurant managers look like they wandered over from a Tri-Delt semi-formal. TDO doesn't seem to value experienced management.

And yet, the concierge staff at Pop seems no different from Contemporary to me. I've stayed at all three hotel levels in WDW, plus some "villas" and find the service the same no matter where you go. That's fine for Pop, but not so much from a hotel that charges $300+/night.

 

[aladdin2007]

Many younger WDW fans don't realize that at one time, every special effect worked on every attraction, it was easy to walk into a restaurant, meals included custom napkins and after-dinner chocolates, and the landscaping was impeccable. In other words, it operated as a world-class entertainment resort, not a hyper-planned way to live a Disney life.

To the lifestylers: as much as you love it now, it used to be so much better.

AMEN, post says it all.

 

[tirian]

Walt was one of the last Hollywood execs who believed in the classic American work ethic. He'd be too quality-conscious for today's Wall-Street-obsessed Hollywood machine.

A few years before Roger Ebert's death, the film critic mentioned Warner Brothers as the last major studio that refused to skimp on production values. That includes Speed Racer and all.

Been meaning to post this for some time. I finished rereading Bob Thomas' "Walt Disney: An American Original" the other day. I can say after this that Neal Gabler's biography of Walt, "Walt Disney: The Triumph of the American Imagination", comparatively is a poorly written piece of garbage. I know not meeting the man himself on multiple occasions and his friends, family, and colleagues (the ones no longer with us) would make a project of this scale especially difficult, but weighing your prose down with every little detail, with many errors might I add. It's not impossible either as quality biographies/history books on deceased subjects exist; ever heard of Dorris Kearns Goodwin or Gordon Wood? Perhaps one day Michael Barrier will be given access to the Disney Archives and can further improve his book with a second edition. Insert comment about Disney Editions shutting down Amid Amidi's biography on Ward Kimball.

Disney Editions should be ashamed "Walt Disney: An American Original" is not available for eReaders. Thankfully, D23 was able to push through a republishing of "An American Original" recently, probably with a lot of flack as the folks who care and know what they're doing seem to have a hard time getting stuff done. Now I love reading physical books and often prefer it if I have the option, but a growing number of folks, including most importantly young children, use them as their primary means of reading books and by not releasing on those platforms you limit the availability of a quality biography as the book will inevitably go out of print and interested readers and institutions like schools and libraries will not be able to buy new copies (you know, the ones you make MONEY on?) and as we've seen with "The Illusion of Life" prices of used copies will increase.

Here are some passages from the book that illustrate some of the differences in the culture of Walt Disney Productions that seems to have fallen away as Wall St. and the Strategic Planners have damaged TWDC. I know a small independent production company like The Walt Disney Studios of Walt's day is a far cry from mass media behemoth or as Steve Huelett puts it "Berkshire Hathaway of the entertainment industry", but shouldn't TWDC still strive to operate in the same SPIRIT that Walt and Roy ran WDP with a focus on quality and constantly striving to improve oneself?

 

[tirian]

To their credit, the best service I've received on property was at Art of Animation. I've stayed at all 3 monorail resorts, all 3 Epcot deluxe resorts, Animal Kingdom Lodge, and a few moderates. The CM quality matters more than the hotel level.

And yet, the concierge staff at Pop seems no different from Contemporary to me. I've stayed at all three hotel levels in WDW, plus some "villas" and find the service the same no matter where you go. That's fine for Pop, but not so much from a hotel that charges $300+/night.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

To the lifestylers: as much as you love it now, it used to be so much better.

 

[culturenthrills]

That seems contradictory to the idea that TDO is incredibly cheap and always looking to cut costs. If meet and greets were that expensive to operate and maintain they would be the first things cut. Instead they are being rapidly expanded.

No they just have to cut other entertainment to pay for meet and greets

 

[culturenthrills]

If it's new to Orlando, I couldn't care less if it's a clone.

I would've much preferred a FLE that included more of the DL dark rides -- Alice, especially.

But I guess if UNI has taught us that clones are so much cheaper to build, then there's no excuse why Indiana Jones Adventure shouldn't be cloned for Adventureland.

It's amazing how one of the best rides at WDW (TOT) got cloned around the world, but the best ride at DL (IMO) never made its way to Florida.

Oh, well, I guess we got Dinosaur...

All they had to do was clone Indy at the Studios and it would have solved alot of problems with that park. Dinosaur doesn't compare.

 

[yoyoflamingo]

GF is the ONLY place I have heard about this system being in place, was hoping for other locations

Kidani Village has it also.

 

[doctornick]

All they had to do was clone Indy at the Studios and it would have solved alot of problems with that park. Dinosaur doesn't compare.

Hell, they could make a viable and enjoyable Pixar Place just by using clones -- Ratatouille, Crush's Coaster, any of the Bug's Land rides, any of Cars Land (as great as RSR is, adding Mater's would help with the problem of limited family rides in the park), either of the Monsters Inc dark rides, any of the Toy Story Land rides.... some people would complain about having clones, but the vast majority of guests would simply enjoy the fact that there were more than 6 rides in the park.

 

[lebeau]

Search your feelings.

 

[71jason]

And yet, the concierge staff at Pop seems no different from Contemporary to me. I've stayed at all three hotel levels in WDW, plus some "villas" and find the service the same no matter where you go. That's fine for Pop, but not so much from a hotel that charges $300+/night.

Sorry if I wasn't clear (cold meds will do that), but that was my point exactly. I expect a concierge at a $500/night hotel. But when the same kid was doing the same job at Pop Century last week--it shows it's "concierge" in name only. Essentially a fancy name for "help desk."

 

[rodserling27]

I would say that this is what has happened as a result of MK's way too low capacity.

You have some ridiculously long operating days 7 a.m. to 3 a.m. during holidays, spring break etc ... yet EPCOT, which once had regular 11 p.m. and midnight closings, always shuts at 9 or 9:30 when they need to sell meal packages for CP.

So, sure, the MK is always open late (unlike the old days when it would regularly close at 6 and 7), but that negatively impacts the ability to do basic cleaning and maintaining. And it impacts the other parks as Disney won't add labor expenses when it can funnel everyone to one park.

Wow, some pretty excellent and obvious statements and analysis there, but I never thought of it. Always just assumed MK was open late because it's the flagship park, but that makes a lot of sense all around. Thanks for that, Spirit.

 

[71jason]

To their credit, the best service I've received on property was at Art of Animation. That includes all 3 monorail resorts, all 3 Epcot deluxe resorts, Animal Kingdom Lodge, and a few moderates. The CM quality matters more than the hotel level.

But again, that's the problem. The deluxe resorts should have guys with years, maybe decades, of experience in and around WDW. Instead it's luck of the draw.

 

[Funmeister]

All they had to do was clone Indy at the Studios and it would have solved alot of problems with that park. Dinosaur doesn't compare.

The one ride that no one had a problem with them cloning. Anyone hear some small (very small) activity involving Indiana Jones? (Not at WDW...just in general.)

 

[ChrisFL]

For all the tech that we have today, people by and large don't seem to be very interested in knowledge and that was the heart of EPCOT. Tech isn't making our society more intelligent, heck, most people use their smartphones to check Facebook and email. I think the simple answer in the US as it generally boils down to ignorance.

Look at the astonishingly scary polls/surveys and the answers that Americans give regarding science. We have a lot of a flat Earth type crowd all over the place now. There is always amazing and new technology, things that even with what we have today are stunning. We've just become a society that doesn't value intelligence, learning, and yearning for the future. When I hear our politicians and their "we're the greatest country" or "we've never been stronger," it's pathetic. America has become a lazy and uninterested country where most people are out for only themselves and to hell with any/everything else. I think that's a strong case for why the BRILLIANT, original EPCOT CENTER would have trouble today, not so much that we have such amazing technology. Ignorance continues to rule supreme. When leaders in Uganda try to justify sickening positions by stating that Arizona and other states are (was in AZ's case) looking to bring legislation that isn't too far away from their train of thought, we have major problems.

AGREED 100%

I see a lot of the same things you've been seeing. Education somewhere along the line became a bad word, and along with it, the opportunity for places like Epcot to really become more special than even it started out as. Instead Disney in its infinite wisdom decided it was too difficult and went along with those who refused to LEARN something while on vacation, because that would be horrible.

I often think about what if Epcot was sold to a third party but still licensed through Disney and continued the ticket plans, etc....how reinvestment could really help the park.

 

[wdwfan4ver]

All they had to do was clone Indy at the Studios and it would have solved alot of problems with that park. Dinosaur doesn't compare.

I don't think it would have been that easy to solve the problems with Studios with just clone Indy. DHS is a park that needs updates, more rides, and fix theme issues.

DHS only has 6 rides. Right now DHS has a Backlot tour for a theme park that hasn't been a working studio in a long time and Monster Inc. Door coaster not happening didn't help matters. The other thing is Toy Story Midway Mania is very popular because that park needs more family friendly rides and I question cloning the Indy ride would fix that problem.

The issue with the Backlot Tour is three things. The first thing is the attraction was opened at time when DHS had a working studios when having a Backlot Tour made sense. The Tour now is shell of its former self do to it being smaller besides not having a working studio. The third thing is Studio Backlot Tour caused a theme problem because its not real Backlot Tour since the DHS hasn't been a working studio in years.

 

[lazyboy97o]

But again, that's the problem. The deluxe resorts should have guys with years, maybe decades, of experience in and around WDW. Instead it's luck of the draw.

First you need people with years of experience.

 

[Scuttle]

Watching the oscars I have a feeling we have seen the last of Maelstrom.