The Spirited Sixth Sense ...

[lazyboy97o]

Great post. This is exactly the point. You are losing the history. These machines are operating antiques that you don't have to just view in a museum but you can actually ride on. It's not about getting from point A to point B or even what the trains look like. For me it's a loss.

I can understand why some people don't care. Not everyone appreciates or cares about the history. They just view the train as another ride. As long as the ride has the same scenery and look and the trains look mostly the same they don't care about the change.

It's not so much here as other places, MiceChat seems to have become worse, but it seems some Disney fans have a sort of hostile selfishness. Because they only care about the train as transportation they not only do not care about the locomotives, but would even take a certain level of glee in them being changed. There is an enjoyment in seeing the Walties and purists being upset. Better for characters to just be tossed in someplace than integrated, because they do not care and it's stupid that others do care. Better to get rid of unique shops because they like the merchandise available everywhere and it's stupid that others do care.

Who really cares what type of train they use?

Walt Disney.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Walt Disney.

Ya, well, it's not like they even named the place after him or anything.

 

[Hakunamatata]

Walt Disney.

I'm going to step out on a limb and say it's been a while since he cared.

 

[Andrew C]

I'm going to step out on a limb and say it's been a while since he cared.

awww...low blow!

 

[stini228]

They should have done a murial on that big blank wall...what were they thinking ? I'm glad for additional seating although we actually liked the bleachers and the movie, but this was the best they could do for decor?

Maybe they will project something onto this wall? Seems so strange to leave it blank.

 

[jlsHouston]

Maybe they will project something onto this wall? Seems so strange to leave it blank.

Yah it did to me too....They should have made it a photo wall mural of baseball moments...

 

[jlsHouston]

The twisted part about large corporate investments is that each time a project is evaluated, it doesn't matter how much money has been thrown away in the past. Instead, you focus on how much going forward you think it's going to take to get it finished vs. how much you think it will generate once it is.

The really twisted part is that each time there is a "Come to Jesus" meeting where a go/no-go decision has to be made, everyone is afraid to come clean with costs and sales projections because they are absolutely convinced their jobs are on the line if the project is cancelled. So, time and again, they provide optimistic estimates even though the company is getting burned.

I wonder if this is happening with MyMagic+?

Of course it is.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I'm going to step out on a limb and say it's been a while since he cared.

So? The place is named for him for a reason and the Company still loves to invoke his name. Steam trains were incredibly important to the conceptualization and development of Disneyland. If it all started with a Mouse, Disneyland started with a train.

 

[Goofyernmost]

The odd lightbulb and individual instances of chipped paint you are correct only WE notice them, The state of the bulbs now where entire strings are out on the GF are noticeable by EVERYONE and the chipped paint and filthy lighting at DHS/EPCOT are also noticed by the casual observer.

I know, but, it is a little overboard to say that everyone notices a string of light out at the GF. For one thing, how many of us have a wiring schematic telling us where lights are supposed to be in the first place. And even then, it would be of primary concern to the people staying at the GF. The average park visitor wouldn't be aware of it. Again, it's those of us that are regular visitors that would have a chance in a tornado of 1) noticing and/or 2) caring. What they notice is that there aren't any lights in a particular place, not if they should be there and even then their degree of concern would be almost none.

 

[ParentsOf4]

I know, but, it is a little overboard to say that everyone notices a string of light out at the GF. For one thing, how many of us have a wiring schematic telling us where lights are supposed to be in the first place. And even then, it would be of primary concern to the people staying at the GF. The average park visitor wouldn't be aware of it. Again, it's those of us that are regular visitors that would have a chance in a tornado of 1) noticing and/or 2) caring. What they notice is that there aren't any lights in a particular place, not if they should be there and even then their degree of concern would be almost none.

Sadly, I don't think the "average park visitor" notices or cares about Disco Yeti.

 

[Goofyernmost]

That backpedal kinda made it worse. That is the same as asking someone at both parks:

Did you ride a rollercoaster? Yes.

Did you eat food? Yes

Did you see a show or two? Yes.

Whether it is a finely tuned park or a cheap one, the answer is still yes.

Putting a bit to fine a point on that aren't you? It wasn't a backpedal at all. It is exactly what I said in the first place. You want to have an expensive, shiny, finely tuned watch that has a sole purpose of telling you what time it is, accurately, then that's OK. But, unlike a theme park, which if I remember this whole things started as, the outcome is different for each individual. No one answer! An accurate time is accurate if the watch costs $100,000.00 or is a $25.00 Timex. It has only one function and that is to tell you what time it is. Both can do it equally well. Now enter status into the equation and then there is a difference, an expensive one, but a difference none the less.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I know, but, it is a little overboard to say that everyone notices a string of light out at the GF. For one thing, how many of us have a wiring schematic telling us where lights are supposed to be in the first place. And even then, it would be of primary concern to the people staying at the GF. The average park visitor wouldn't be aware of it. Again, it's those of us that are regular visitors that would have a chance in a tornado of 1) noticing and/or 2) caring. What they notice is that there aren't any lights in a particular place, not if they should be there and even then their degree of concern would be almost none.

You don't need a schematic to know something is off. It is obvious to anybody looking across the Seven Seas Lagoon, which includes plenty of day guests.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Sadly, I don't think the "average park visitor" notices or cares about Disco Yeti.

Sadly, you are correct! And that my friend is exactly why this constant beating one's head against a wall thinking that a few logical words will change the foolish ways of the current Disney Management is futile. It will be what it is until it isn't anymore. The minority does not rule most of the time, unless, of course, they have guns or they are already in charge. When The Disney Company was primarily owned by one person, in this case a major minority, then his opinion was not just opinion it was law and the public had no control over it at all. The public still doesn't but now the management is lacking in backbone, creativity and foresight. It's not going to change until leadership changes and then you don't know what your getting. Look at all the high hopes dashed against the rocks when Iger took over. This is where the old saying...be careful what you wish for, comes in!

 

[Goofyernmost]

You don't need a schematic to know something is off. It is obvious to anybody looking across the Seven Seas Lagoon, which includes plenty of day guests.

Not as many as you might think, especially new or infrequent visitors.

 

[spacemt354]

Putting a bit to fine a point on that aren't you? It wasn't a backpedal at all. It is exactly what I said in the first place. You want to have an expensive, shiny, finely tuned watch that has a sole purpose of telling you what time it is, accurately, then that's OK. But, unlike a theme park, which if I remember this whole things started as, the outcome is different for each individual. No one answer! An accurate time is accurate if the watch costs $100,000.00 or is a $25.00 Timex. It has only one function and that is to tell you what time it is. Both can do it equally well. Now enter status into the equation and then there is a difference, an expensive one, but a difference none the less.

With all due respect, I'm not sure what your analogy is then.

If faux steam produces the same "accuracy" as real steam to you, then would you say static figures on Pirates of the Caribbean or Haunted Mansion will produce the same effect for you? Or Tower of Terror being a simulator instead of actually dropping you faster than the speed of gravity. Or how about instead of being the biggest and most impressive animatronic in the world, the Yeti on Expedition Everest didn't move....oh wait...

Trying to cheap out and hoping guests don't notice is not what Disney used to be about. They used to go above and beyond the call of duty. If they are going to settle for 2nd rate quality, why are they still charging 1st rate prices?

I mean seriously, I can understand people coming for the first time and being unaware of the steam. But you know what? It was that attention to detail and story that produced life-long fans such as everyone on this site, who truly care about the conditions of the parks. The passion for Disney stems from their passion into their product. If they decide to eliminate or downgrade park conditions to save a buck, they are missing the ideal that their founder Walt Disney started. Now they are even downgrading the quality of an attraction named after Mr. Disney.

Seriously, I would go see the "Magic Behind Our Steam Trains" tour provided at the Magic Kingdom. Then you'll see why so many people are up in arms. And I'd go see it quickly, because if this faux steam is implemented, there may not be a tour anymore, which is just a disgrace to what WDW parks used to stand for.

 

[GoofGoof]

Just thought I'd throw this in here for the few of you who are discussing alternative sources of power generation at WDW.

This is from the 2/20 O'Sentinel, article by Kevin Spear:

Plant turns Disney food scraps into electricity

"The big truck tipped its load, and out gushed a bubbling slop of burger pieces, buns, onions, carrot peels, whole oranges, lettuce bits and much more that smelled as sour as it looked. Paul Sellew watched as if he were getting a gift.

"It's beautiful," he said.

Sellew founded Harvest Power Inc., which has started a factory at Walt Disney World that turns what's scraped off plates at restaurants into electricity and fertilizer."

Full article: O'Sentinel

They can use animal droppings too. Those elephants have to earn their keep

 

[GoofGoof]

With all due respect, I'm not sure what your analogy is then.

If faux steam produces the same "accuracy" as real steam to you, then would you say static figures on Pirates of the Caribbean or Haunted Mansion will produce the same effect for you? Or Tower of Terror being a simulator instead of actually dropping you faster than the speed of gravity. Or how about instead of being the biggest and most impressive animatronic in the world, the Yeti on Expedition Everest didn't move....oh wait...

Trying to cheap out and hoping guests don't notice is not what Disney used to be about. They used to go above and beyond the call of duty. If they are going to settle for 2nd rate quality, why are they still charging 1st rate prices?

I mean seriously, I can understand people coming for the first time and being unaware of the steam. But you know what? It was that attention to detail and story that produced life-long fans such as everyone on this site, who truly care about the conditions of the parks. The passion for Disney stems from their passion into their product. If they decide to eliminate or downgrade park conditions to save a buck, they are missing the ideal that their founder Walt Disney started. Now they are even downgrading the quality of an attraction named after Mr. Disney.

Seriously, I would go see the "Magic Behind Our Steam Trains" tour provided at the Magic Kingdom. Then you'll see why so many people are up in arms. And I'd go see it quickly, because if this faux steam is implemented, there may not be a tour anymore, which is just a disgrace to what WDW parks used to stand for.

While I personally agree with you I think some people can more easily separate their love for Disney parks from their love (or lack of love) for authentic steam trains. For me the railroad is as much a part of my memories and love for WDW as the monorail or the castle or Pirates or HM or Splash. I'm not a train enthusiast or anything like that, but I appreciate the history of the railroad and specifically the history of those trains.

If this rumor is true and they retire the trains and they actually try to still offer a tour that would be pretty lame and kind of obnoxious. Maybe the highlight of the tour would be where they show you video clips of what the trains were like before they got rid of them

 

[Goofyernmost]

While I personally agree with you I think some people can more easily separate their love for Disney parks from their love (or lack of love) for authentic steam trains. For me the railroad is as much a part of my memories and love for WDW as the monorail or the castle or Pirates or HM or Splash. I'm not a train enthusiast or anything like that, but I appreciate the history of the railroad and specifically the history of those trains.

If this rumor is true and they retire the trains and they actually try to still offer a tour that would be pretty lame and kind of obnoxious. Maybe the highlight of the tour would be where they show you video clips of what the trains were like before they got rid of them

Wait... when did the rumor get to be that there will be no trains at all? My understanding was that they were going to convert the trains to a different power source other then steam. No trains and converted trains are two different animals. Of course, they need to keep the trains. If they are authentic steam trains or if they are simulated steam trains will be practically unnoticed by most people. Would it be nice if they kept them steam, sure, I guess so. I don't have a horse in this race. I was never a "fan" of steam trains. I recognize them and appreciate how they built this country, but, if they had an electric train that produced steam (like my old train set when I was a kid) I would be just as amused by the ride. It's just more a matter of what will happen and how to make the best of it. I don't think you will ever see the trains leaving a Disney Park in the foreseeable future. They are still to much of an iconic part of the show.

 

[Bolna]

Trying to cheap out and hoping guests don't notice is not what Disney used to be about. They used to go above and beyond the call of duty. If they are going to settle for 2nd rate quality, why are they still charging 1st rate prices?

That's exactly it. Besides the trains being one of the things that Walt cared about the most, the steam trains provide such an important place making for Main Street. Entering a Disney park when the train is at the Main Street Station with the engine huffing in puffing immediately takes you back in time. It is not only the sight of the steam (which most people mistake for smoke anyway), but also the sound of the engine, the way it moves and how you can hear it starting when it is about to pull out of the station. While many people might not think about, for someone living in the 21th century it is something that we associate with the past, a sound which we only know from films or museum railways. It is this completeness of the experience that makes Main Street so special.

 

[GoofGoof]

Wait... when did the rumor get to be that there will be no trains at all? My understanding was that they were going to convert the trains to a different power source other then steam. No trains and converted trains are two different animals. Of course, they need to keep the trains. If they are authentic steam trains or if they are simulated steam trains will be practically unnoticed by most people. Would it be nice if they kept them steam, sure, I guess so. I don't have a horse in this race. I was never a "fan" of steam trains. I recognize them and appreciate how they built this country, but, if they had an electric train that produced steam (like my old train set when I was a kid) I would be just as amused by the ride. It's just more a matter of what will happen and how to make the best of it. I don't think you will ever see the trains leaving a Disney Park in the foreseeable future. They are still to much of an iconic part of the show.

Where did I say there would be no trains? I know you are probably just looking to argue, but seriously try reading a post before responding to it.