The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...

[Goofyernmost]

I would assume they pumped in earth and concrete to fill it as part of the groundwork for MS.

They could have done that with Horizons sitting there. It's been done many times before.

 

[dupac]

Irrelevant... what the article is citing as embracing (increase interest in the country) is not what is being proposed in EPCOT --adding commercial characters and changing the premise of something built to celebrate culture and history.

Might as well say "Norway is happy about increase birth rates - so obviously they don't mind Frozen coming" - it's just as relevant... (aka.. none)

Disagree. While a rising birth rate is not correlated to Frozen popularity, gains in tourism are. Innovation Norway paid to use Frozen in their tourism marketing before the film even hit theaters, if I remember correctly. Thus anything that can reinforce their tie to Frozen probably isn't seen as a negative.

Not saying I agree with it. I think it's horrible placement. But Maelstrom isn't a Norwegian treasure.

 

[asianway]

They could have done that with Horizons sitting there. It's been done many times before.

There is no sinkhole at Horizons-it's under the pond in front ofOdyssey.

The ride system needed major overhaul & the sponsor went with a new build.

 

[Goofyernmost]

There is no sinkhole at Horizons-it's under the pond in front ofOdyssey.

The ride system needed major overhaul & the sponsor went with a new build.

I know, just wondering what they did with a big ole natural sinkhole to guarantee that it didn't engulf the new building, if it existed.

 

[flynnibus]

Disagree. While a rising birth rate is not correlated to Frozen popularity, gains in tourism are. Innovation Norway paid to use Frozen in their tourism marketing before the film even hit theaters, if I remember correctly. Thus anything that can reinforce their tie to Frozen probably isn't seen as a negative.

'anything'? there you go with the disconnect again. They are happy with the results of the film bringing exposure. Yes, that doesn't mean they are willing to drop their pants or sacrafice other things to similar successes. You are extrapolating incorrectly they will risk anything.. simply because they've like results from a completely different commitment.

That's akin to saying... you agreed to share your name with a marketing company in return for $5... It was reported you really liked that $5.. so now we can assume you are willing to give the marketing company the names of everyone you know so they can be exploited... because they will give you $5 a name... and we know you liked the $5.

Acknowledging you like a result does not mean you are willing or supportive of anything that will give similar results. Logical fallacies.

 

[dupac]

Okay. I agree "anything" is too far, but I don't think it's a stretch to think that Innovation Norway or the government probably don't have major issues with inserting Frozen into Maelstrom. Like I said, it's not exactly a Norwegian treasure. Obviously this is all conjecture.

I think all the articles about Norway's embrace of Frozen are interesting, but not because I think they prove or even support that Frozen in Maelstrom is a good idea.

 

[tamotu99]

Of course Norway will embrace Frozen, it is a massive film and will increase tourism to Norway as people will want to see the scenery thats 'in the movie' i highly doubt that the Norwegian Tourist Authority have wasted one piece of A4 paper over the Norway pavillon in Epcot over the last 5 years, and i doubt they care one way or the other whether it stays as Maelstrom, becomes 'Journey through Frozen® Norway' or gets remade into a larger shop.

Plus it is my understanding that the Norwegian business (and a small bit from the government) that helped to fund the pavilion, get a big hefty percentage of sales from food and drinks and merchandise , so that frozen merchandise flying of the shelves will help cheer them up, and those 6 month booked out character meals

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

Edit, because nevermind. I'll be in the minority of thinking that anyone in Norway actually cares what shape the pavilion is in and how Disney represents it

 

[dupac]

We could always ask them! I have colleagues in Norway

 

[flynnibus]

Of course Norway will embrace Frozen, it is a massive film and will increase tourism to Norway as people will want to see the scenery thats 'in the movie' i highly doubt that the Norwegian Tourist Authority have wasted one piece of A4 paper over the Norway pavillon in Epcot over the last 5 years, and i doubt they care one way or the other whether it stays as Maelstrom, becomes 'Journey through Frozen® Norway' or gets remade into a larger shop.

Norwegians aren't generally sellouts like Americans are. They still celebrate tradition, culture, and put 'right' above profits. No one eats fermented fish because it's tasty

 

[jakeman]

Norwegians aren't generally sellouts like Americans are. They still celebrate tradition, culture, and put 'right' above profits. No one eats fermented fish because it's tasty

Someone should tell these guys that:

http://www.norwaypost.com/index.php...91-fraud-discovered-in-norwegian-aid-projects

http://www.thelocal.no/20131202/norway-plans-worlds-largest-viking-theme-park

 

[Mike S]

Someone should tell these guys that:

http://www.norwaypost.com/index.php...91-fraud-discovered-in-norwegian-aid-projects

http://www.thelocal.no/20131202/norway-plans-worlds-largest-viking-theme-park

That Viking theme park actually sounds pretty cool.

 

[dupac]

Anyone with a Scandinavian studies degree who can explain to us what the Norwegians are thinking?

 

[Dragon-Radar]

Globally, Disney spends a ton of cash on maintenance, with the largest amount going to WDW.

The question is whether Disney spends enough.

Recalling what CFO Jay Rasulo said about investments in 2011:

“Five years ago or so we used to be pretty demonstrative about $1 billion number being an ongoing level without special projects added to it.

"You have to remember though that in those five years in the capital projects that we have put in the ground, which each have their own growth strategy, each is filling in different parts of the portfolio, when they are back on board they all need ongoing FF&E and maintenance capital to keep them going.​

"So I would say that that $1 billion number is low.”​

With baseline capex at $1B back in 2006 along with inflation and the additional projects brought online since 2006, today’s Furniture, Fixtures and Equipment (FF&E) may very well be over $2B. Most of today's "investments" consist of basic maintenance, not "special projects". Whether $2B is enough for maintenance depends on what you think about quality at the parks.

Looking more closely at 2013, total company investments (which includes FF&E) were $2.8B. With FF&E approaching $2B, total annual revenue at $45B, and P&R revenue at $14B, it's apparent that the budget for all "special projects" (e.g. Pandora) being shared across all company segments is comparatively small. In 2013, Disney spent 6% of total revenue and 20% of P&R revenue on "investments", most of that simply on maintenance.

For comparison, in 1974 with company revenue at $430M and Parks & Resorts (P&R) revenue at $280M, total investments were $67M, 16% of company revenue and 24% of P&R revenue. The 1970s were a difficult period for Disney, with an energy crisis severely impacting travel, and they had cut back tremendously on investments in an effort to keep the company afloat.

In 1983, the year after Epcot opened, Disney invested heavily in P&R. Corporately, there was a sense that WDW was the Disney brothers final legacy and a real commitment to seeing it turned into a complete resort. Until Eisner joined in 1984, Disney effectively had become a theme park company. With company revenue at $1.3B and Parks & Resorts (P&R) revenue at $1.0B, total investments were $418M, 32% of company revenue and 42% of P&R revenue.

In 1994, Disney was in the middle of the "Disney Decade". With company revenue at $10.1B and Parks & Resorts (P&R) revenue at $3.5B, total investments were $2.9B, 29% of company revenue and 83% of P&R revenue.

In 2004, P&R still was suffering from a post-9/11 economy. (Things began to improve at the parks with the introduction of the less expensive Magic Your Way ticket and Disney's Magical Express in 2005.) With company revenue at $30.8B and Parks & Resorts (P&R) revenue at $7.8B, total investments were $1.4B, 5% of company revenue and 18% of P&R revenue.

(In case anyone wonders why I picked these years, I wanted to do 10-year increments but don't have complete data for every year. These years are approximately 10 years apart.)

As has always been true ever since DLR opened in 1955, the lion's share of investments have been in P&R. For example, in 2013, Disney spent $1.14B domestically plus another $970M internationally in P&R, for a total of $2.11B. (Recall that total investments for the year were $2.8B.) The resorts really are tremendous physical assets requiring constant capital.

What sticks out is the jump in total revenue after Eisner joined in 1984. When Eisner was brought on board, Disney's only successful segment was P&R. After that, the company as a whole began firing on all cylinders. Eisner (along with significant contributions from others) really did lead the effort to save Disney.

Still, Eisner invested heavily in the theme parks. Under Eisner, there were several years when annual investments exceeded $5B. This was in absolute dollars. In inflation-adjusted dollars, this was over $8B. Those of us who saw WDW expand tremendously during the "Disney Decade" know that a lot was spent in Orlando.

Just imagine what could be happening at WDW today if Disney was investing closer to $8B annually.

What also sticks out is that P&R investments have plummeted. Prior to 9/11, Disney was not afraid to spend big at the theme parks. Understandably, P&R investments collapsed in the post-9/11 economy, when travel and all vacation destinations were adversely impacted. However, it appears corporate attitudes never changed as the economy recovered.

When it comes to P&R investments, Disney's current senior executive management still operates like it's 2002.

Were they spending (adjusted for inflation) more than what Universal is spending today in Orlando?

 

[flynnibus]

Someone should tell these guys that:

http://www.norwaypost.com/index.php...91-fraud-discovered-in-norwegian-aid-projects

http://www.thelocal.no/20131202/norway-plans-worlds-largest-viking-theme-park

I suggest you re-read the first article to understand where it says the fraud is happening

As for the second one.. I never said the Norweigans weren't capitalists. I have no idea why you think the idea of building a tourist attraction that celebrates Norsk history means they are sell-outs or anything.

Not that I ever expect you to be there.. but if you ever goto Norway's capital.. I suggest visiting http://www.norskfolkemuseum.no/en/

 

[FigmentJedi]

Anyone with a Scandinavian studies degree who can explain to us what the Norwegians are thinking?

"Why doesn't Disney make more Scrooge and Donald Duck animated projects?"

Seriously, that whole Scandinavian group of countries loves them some cartoon ducks. That Life and Times of Scrooge McDuck concept album that came out of Finland has been a huge success in Europe (and honestly, the album itself would make for a pretty sweet Disney movie score), but Disney America just doesn't realize the potential that lies in doing more with Scrooge.

 

[jakeman]

I suggest you re-read the first article to understand where it says the fraud is happening

As for the second one.. I never said the Norweigans weren't capitalists. I have no idea why you think the idea of building a tourist attraction that celebrates Norsk history means they are sell-outs or anything.

Then what is a sellout to you? Because I think building a theme park around your culture fits that definition pretty well.

Also, they are using Frozen, with it's vaguely Norwegian stereotypes to promote their country. How is that not selling out?
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-27469638
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-27469638

Not that I ever expect you to be there.. but if you ever goto Norway's capital.. I suggest visiting http://www.norskfolkemuseum.no/en/

I'll just assume that you are being helpful and aren't trying to get into a foreign travel peeing contest.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Foreigners do have funny toilets though

 

[jakeman]

Foreigners do have funny toilets though

And really low water fountains in the bathroom.

 

[FigmentJedi]

Then what is a sellout to you? Because I think building a theme park around your culture fits that definition pretty well.

Also, they are using Frozen, with it's vaguely Norwegian stereotypes to promote their country. How is that not selling out?
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-27469638

I'll just assume that you are being helpful and aren't trying to get into a foreign travel peeing contest.

That article you linked just mentioned that they're doing the same thing Scotland did with Brave. Which is also funny because that Scottish Brave campaign ended up getting backlash from a small Scottish CG animation studio angry that their crappy looking movie Sir Billi was snubbed in favor of the big budget, actually good looking film.



I find it amazing and sad that this is now Sean Connery's last movie.