The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...

[spacemt354]

All the old rides should've gotten updates. Mission Space has really dropped off in popularity so maybe it would've been best to just update Horizons in the long run. Probably would've been cheaper too. Test Track vs. WoM is a toss up for me. I think it would be best if in a future update (and I mean WAY in the future) they brought back elements of WoM and made the interior a dark ride like JTTCOTE and RSR while keeping the outside high speed loop. Imagination should've gotten a much better update from the get go, there's really no excuse for that one.

Edit: WoL should have just stayed open. Period. Imagine if Body Wars got the same kind of update Star Tours got. Sure the more crisp 3D HD visuals of the interior of the human body could've grossed out some people, but man would it have been cool.

As a student in college studying human physiology/neuroscience, body wars would have been one of my favorite attractions. It's at the top of the list of rides I wish I had ridden.

I rode WoM when I was a child (parents took me on it so I would nap apparently) but I don't remember it so I wish they were still around to ride today. Horizons as well.

If Epcot needed a thrill ride I would take test track over mission space. You're right, MS has really fallen off in terms of popularity, especially since they split the ride in two. That coupled with the few deaths/barf bags provided on the ride I guess turn people off.

Also the Kennedy space center is an hour away. Anything space related at Epcot should be really futuristic IMO, or just simply educational. When 2036 or so roles around, won't the attraction need an update? (Since that's the theoretical year you're going to mars on the ride)

I hope it comes before that and we get an omnimover people eater back. A cosmos pavilion would be spectacular. Or just something about space in general. A planetarium of sorts. That would be really cool.

 

[RSoxNo1]

In my senior year in High School, Senior Skip day happened 3 times all through I didn't skip school any of the 3 times other seniors did. All three times, the seniors went to Six flags matter of fact for thrill rides. That shows how much teenagers love thrill rides despite how misguided the teens were.

I did not go to a full day of classes my senior year of high school. I also remember going to Pizza Hut on many occasions so your point is well taken.

 

[Mike S]

I think what they should have done is firmed up the final scene of Carousel of Progress to set it definitively in the 1980s or 90s, with computers in every home, and TVs with hundreds of channels, instead of the vague attempt to make it 'current' we have now, with a final scene that was supposed to not date easily. They shouldn't have been scared of the last scene looking old, but instead made the ride a definitive tale of the progress of the twentieth century.

Then you go over to Horizons, which should take the story to the future and be an epic, optimistic vision of possible futures, but shouldn't be like the videos at the end of SSE, where half the stuff they talk about we already have, and shouldn't touch near future things like virtual reality, video phones or hypersonic planes, but focus on big picture blue sky stuff, like cities on Mars, colonies under the sea, space commuting... really big stuff with a scientific basis that could happen but isn't likely to in our lifetimes, so nobody could ever say 'been there, done that'.

CoP is dated though. The last scene references "car phones" as if they were still around.

 

[GoofGoof]

As a student in college studying human physiology/neuroscience, body wars would have been one of my favorite attractions. It's at the top of the list of rides I wish I had ridden.

I rode WoM when I was a child (parents took me on it so I would nap apparently) but I don't remember it so I wish they were still around to ride today. Horizons as well.

If Epcot needed a thrill ride I would take test track over mission space. You're right, MS has really fallen off in terms of popularity, especially since they split the ride in two. That coupled with the few deaths/barf bags provided on the ride I guess turn people off.

Also the Kennedy space center is an hour away. Anything space related at Epcot should be really futuristic IMO. When 2036 or so roles around, won't the attraction need an update? (Since that's the theoretical year you're going to mars on the ride)

I hope it comes before that and we get an omnimover people eater back. A cosmos pavilion would be spectacular. Or just something about space in general. A planetarium of sorts. That would be really cool.

Agreed. Test Track still fits into the spirit of EPCOT and was a technically advanced thrill ride. I'm not a big fan of Mission Space because of the barf factor. I would love a space themed dark ride that chronicles the history of space travel and ends with the future, but it is pretty redundant when you have the real thing not far down the road.

 

[spacemt354]

CoP is dated though. The last scene references "car phones" as if they were still around.

It's more like "there's a great big beautiful yesterday"

 

[BrerJon]

CoP is dated though. The last scene references "car phones" as if they were still around.

That's my point though, the last scene needs redoing... it was trying to be 'modern', but just looks like an early 90s best guess at a near future. It needs instead to be as firmly rooted in the past as the previous scenes, make it specific to the 90s so it's intentionally dated, like the first scenes, and tells the concluding part of a 20th century story, instead of trying to be 'the present' and just looking neglected.

 

[spacemt354]

Agreed. Test Track still fits into the spirit of EPCOT and was a technically advanced thrill ride. I'm not a big fan of Mission Space because of the barf factor. I would love a space themed dark ride that chronicles the history of space travel and ends with the future, but it is pretty redundant when you have the real thing not far down the road.

I agree. KSC really doesn't help anything space related at Epcot.

Space mountain works because it's futuristic to the point of fantasy. For space to work thematically into Epcot, it has to be realistic in a sense that it could happen in the near future. But then again you run the risk of being closely assimilated with a center and hour away. It's a tug of rope.

I think space is a critical part of the future world concept, but it really has to be a pavilion that's either dedicated to teaching about the origins of space (like a planetarium) or something akin to the new film interstellar. A ride traveling through worm holes, other dimensions, etc.

 

[BrerJon]

Agreed. Test Track still fits into the spirit of EPCOT and was a technically advanced thrill ride. I'm not a big fan of Mission Space because of the barf factor. I would love a space themed dark ride that chronicles the history of space travel and ends with the future, but it is pretty redundant when you have the real thing not far down the road.

Mission:Space is a product of that cynical TDO attempt to get everyone to stay on property. DAK was built when crowds started flocking to Busch Gardens, Mission:Space was an attempt to stop them drifting to KSC, Pleasure Island was built to stop them going to Church Street, and now we have Disney Springs to head off the competition from the malls.

It doesn't matter if the Disney version isn't quite as good as the real thing, it just needs to be good 'enough' that if family members want to do different things, the Disney versions are compromises that can keep everyone happy.

 

[BrerJon]

That's my point though, the last scene needs redoing... it was trying to be 'modern', but just looks like an early 90s best guess at a near future. It needs instead to be as firmly rooted in the past as the previous scenes, make it specific to the 90s so it's intentionally dated, like the first scenes, and tells the concluding part of a 20th century story, instead of trying to be 'the present' and just looking neglected.

You really should have three phases... CoP is progress in the past, then you have constantly updated exhibits in Communicore giving a taste of the near future, then finally Horizons takes you into the far off, blue sky, epic future (but rooted in science) concepts.

 

[GoofGoof]

Mission:Space is a product of that cynical TDO attempt to get everyone to stay on property. DAK was built when crowds started flocking to Busch Gardens, Mission:Space was an attempt to stop them drifting to KSC, Pleasure Island was built to stop them going to Church Street, and now we have Disney Springs to head off the competition from the malls.

It doesn't matter if the Disney version isn't quite as good as the real thing, it just needs to be good 'enough' that if family members want to do different things, the Disney versions are compromises that can keep everyone happy.

In that case it's a good thing nobody opened a popular gentleman's club down the road or Chef Mickey's could have gotten an unfortunate makeover

 

[Captain Neo]

So it seems like a huge NO BRAINER that if Pixar's Inside Out does phenom at the box office that Cranium Command and the Metlife pavilion will return anchored to that film

 

[BrerJon]

So it seems like a huge NO BRAINER that if Pixar's Inside Out does phenom at the box office that Cranium Command and the Metlife pavilion will return anchored to that film

Hmm, as much as I'm against characters in Epcot, would I prefer a character based Wonders of Life to a Festival Center? I think I would - is it hypocritical to be OK with a character overlay in one area but not another? Or does it just not seem bad because Wonders of Life always had characters in it anyway? It's a tough one.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Hmm, as much as I'm against characters in Epcot, would I prefer a character based Wonders of Life to a Festival Center? I think I would - is it hypocritical to be OK with a character overlay in one area but not another? Or does it just not seem bad because Wonders of Life always had characters in it anyway? It's a tough one.

The problem with Festival Center is the same problem with Odyssey. They make too much money in their current function as special events places.

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

Characters in Epcot isn't the WORST thing ever - but they should be used to actually teach something in an entertaining way, as opposed to just recapping the film (I'm looking at you Nemo). If Inside Out can be used to create an Epcot-worthy experience, then go balls out and get it done.

This is something I wonder about with WDI. They're able to create new rides in the Disney classic mode (like Mystic Manor) but then something like Mermaid is spit out and it's like - what happened?

 

[Mike S]

Hmm, as much as I'm against characters in Epcot, would I prefer a character based Wonders of Life to a Festival Center? I think I would - is it hypocritical to be OK with a character overlay in one area but not another? Or does it just not seem bad because Wonders of Life always had characters in it anyway? It's a tough one.

To me there are two character IP's that could fit pretty well in EPCOT, coincidentally both from Pixar. Inside Out as an obvious choice for a revamped Wonders of Life and maybe that movie about the Day of the Dead going in Mexico replacing Gran Fiesta Tour. Would have to see a solid concept of the movie on that last one first though but it could potentially work.

 

[WDW1974]

Spirited Musing on Robert A. Iger AKA The Weatherman's Refusal To Leave:

(I posted this in the thread focusing on this news, but also wanted my opinion here as I doubt very much that I will be going back and forth on that thread very long.) So:

So, it just seems like the bad news keeps coming, doesn't it?

There had been chatter over the last six months that Iger wanted to stay longer (and likely stay out of the political arena) and that mixed with the BoD's strong desire to not make Jay Rasulo or Tom Staggs the next CEO coupled with the fact SDL may well not open until even later in 2016 (one RUMOR, but highplaced one, says summer 2016 is the current goal) put the nails into this one.

Wall Street loves the guy, which above any other reason I, or anyone else, could possibly give should be reason enough for any semi-intelligent human being to get that he isn't good for the company in any long term sense.

I don't care all that much about his acquisitions even if I think they all are smart financially (again, sorry to the Marvel fanbois,, but the BRANDS don't mesh well together at all ... hence all those DLR surveys like the one I took and wrote about on the Seventh Heaven thread).

I look at the fundamentals ... the foundation of each and every division. And, no, they are not strong looking long term.

From ABC to the Studios to P&R, I can point to the problems his leadership (or lack of vision) has caused that will dog this company well into the 20s.

Micro-spotting, WDW has NEVER in its history been run as poorly and with a lack of vision and respect for its history than it has been under Robert A. Iger. At 43 years old, it doesn't look like a fit Floridian who runs five days a week and has a healthy diet and looks closer to 29, but instead looks like a semi-recovering meth addict who lives in a Clermont trailer park and looks more like a weathered 64.

Again, I am sure the apologists have been out in force for this one. That is to be expected.

 

[Phil12]

Horizons didn't just deal with the future but technology, which is still relevant. It also had a great opening about the predicted future from the past. Their future speculation was not dead wrong, but is still trying to be reached. Richard Branson and Virgin would have been the perfect sponsor as the ride touches on everything Branson is investing in, including underwater living... We are not living in space. Nor are we living in underwater cities. The predicted future was not wrong, but very much correct as we're just now scratching the surface of bringing these things to reality with commercial space travel and living and working in space.

A Horizons in space attraction would be incredible, with a more interactive experience and 3D elements in those giant IMAX screens could have been fantastic.

People were fascinated with the idea proposed by Horizons that there might be undersea colonies one day. Yet they overlook the fact that building any structures under the sea would destroy any and all sea life for miles in all directions. That fact is conveniently absent from Horizons predictions.

Desert farming requires water and the proposal shown in Horizons depicts huge tower pumps lifting water from underground aquifers. Of course they fail to mention that pumping water from deep aquifers (and/or long distances) is cost prohibitive. The folks in California would have plenty of water from the Mojave Desert if cost were not a factor.

And of course the space station idea holds promise and might one day be a possibility for the average family. We might even have space station prisons and send our most heinous criminals into space to serve their sentences.

It's interesting how nostalgia builds things up over the years. As you walked into the Horizons pavilion a phrase was written along the wall: "If we can dream it, we can do it". Over the years that same phrase has routinely been attributed to Walt Disney. In fact, the phrase came from a 1982 GE recruiting pamphlet. But since it sounded like something Walt would say, people think Walt Disney said it. Yet there is no evidence that Walt Disney ever said such a thing. But I understand how people look to the past with exaggerated memories of how great things were back in the good old days.

 

[Longhairbear]

WDW1974, a question for you. I think you've alluded to things about Golden Oaks, and George K., that are perhaps off kilter, or regrettable. I may have wrongly read into what you have mentioned previously. Can you say more, or am I the one off kilter?

 

[misterID]

People were fascinated with the idea proposed by Horizons that there might be undersea colonies one day. Yet they overlook the fact that building any structures under the sea would destroy any and all sea life for miles in all directions. That fact is conveniently absent from Horizons predictions.

Desert farming requires water and the proposal shown in Horizons depicts huge tower pumps lifting water from underground aquifers. Of course they fail to mention that pumping water from deep aquifers (and/or long distances) is cost prohibitive. The folks in California would have plenty of water from the Mojave Desert if cost were not a factor.

And of course the space station idea holds promise and might one day be a possibility for the average family. We might even have space station prisons and send our most heinous criminals into space to serve their sentences.

It's interesting how nostalgia builds things up over the years. As you walked into the Horizons pavilion a phrase was written along the wall: "If we can dream it, we can do it". Over the years that same phrase has routinely been attributed to Walt Disney. In fact, the phrase came from a 1982 GE recruiting pamphlet. But since it sounded like something Walt would say, people think Walt Disney said it. Yet there is no evidence that Walt Disney ever said such a thing. But I understand how people look to the past with exaggerated memories of how great things were back in the good old days.

You're overlooking the fact that the point of Horizons was that we can figure these things out -- in the future -- that we have the capability of doing it. You might like this: http://www.makingitincalifornia.com/documents/Capturing an Industry - Ocean Infrastructure.pdf

And yeah, Nostalgia is great. I mean, look at all that wonderful merch WDW is pimping of these rides. Did you know Horizons was supposed to be a Space Pavilion? A really cool one with a dark ride where you actually participated in a space walk, controling your vehicle? I believe it was even pitched with M:S at one time. hat's what I would like to see, a real space pavilion.

The problem with Festival Center is the same problem with Odyssey. They make too much money in their current function as special events places.

Yep, I've heard this many times. You would think they would just build a place for these conventions and whatever, instead of using the corpse of a pavilion that could actually be put to good use in... you know, a theme park?

 

[PhotoDave219]

You're overlooking the fact that the point of Horizons was that we can figure these things out -- in the future -- that we have the capability of doing it. You might like this: http://www.makingitincalifornia.com/documents/Capturing an Industry - Ocean Infrastructure.pdf

And yeah, Nostalgia is great. I mean, look at all that wonderful merch WDW is pimping of these rides. Did you know Horizons was supposed to be a Space Pavilion? A really cool one with a dark ride where you actually participated in a space walk, controling your vehicle? I believe it was even pitched with M:S at one time. hat's what I would like to see, a real space pavilion.

Yep, I've heard this many times. You would think they would just build a place for these conventions and whatever, instead of using the corpse of a pavilion that could actually be put to good use in... you know, a theme park?

No, I'm not overlooking them.

Corporate is