The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...

[WDW1974]

I'm not sure Universal needs a 3rd gate anymore than WDW did when they decided to open the disaster currently known as DHS. I'd rather see Universal stick with two parks that they keep investing in than to see them do what Disney did.

I do not disagree with that at all.

 

[WDW1974]

My condolences to your family.

Nope. It soft opened I think December 19th, 1998. We were there. We heard about the soft openings when we were having dinner with some people from rec.arts.disney.parks. My birthday is Dec 21st and we were there for our honeymoon. We decided to skip dinner at California Grill to wait to ride it on the 21st. If I had a time machine, that would be one thing I would change.

Hey, I was right about the exact date

http://www.ultimaterollercoaster.com/news/archives/1998/news_dec98.shtml

Thanks. My memory on that is hazy ... still sounds late. But I did get to ride it before it opened (pays to have friends in what they view as high places!)

BTW, great birthday. Truly!!!

 

[hopemax]

BTW, great birthday. Truly!!!

Not really, it causes an unusually high attachment to a certain wintery themed movie that is starting to drive people crazy, in women who like "cute" things and whose own childhood was during that Black Cauldron era. But I'm trying to work on that!

 

[GoofGoof]

I admit that American autos are getting better (although defining what is American is sorta crazy when you can buy a Toyota that is 87% built in the USA for instance). ... I hadn't even driven a Ford in years when I rented in SoCal in May and wound up with a brand new (996 miles) Ford Mustang. Understand, when I was young, I loved those cars. I owned three. Top of the line, except the first. They were powerful ... powerful pieces of (blank) and I vowed back in the 90s to never get another Ford product.

And service? Recall, this was a company who for decades used ''Quality is Job 1'' as their ad slogan ... I should have known what I was in for when I brought my first Mustang to the dealer at 15 months because the AC had died. I was told by the service manager that the AC ''is only designed to cool the car to 80 degrees'' and then wanted to charge me $1,200 (yes this was back when American automakers were so confident in the quality of their products that typical warranty was one year or 12,000 miles, whichever came first!) I wanted to pick up a wrench and watch piece of his jaw go flying ... but I simply delivered a few expletives, demanded the keys and left (and paid about $400 to a non-Ford dealer to fix it -- and $400 was a HUGE sum to me at that time!)

There's no doubt they have improved by a HUGE amount now. The car I rented was sweet. And fit and finish, which to US automakers always meant cheap, plastic and crap, was best I have ever seen on a Ford. Loved driving it. But it still didn't feel as solid as it should have ... and I could never see myself buying one again.

When I traded in my Accord I got a Honda CRV. I wanted a small SUV that still got good gas mileage for the winter (especially after last winter). I heard some good things about the Ford SUVs but I couldn't get past my horrible experience with the Ford dealership.

I don't think it matters where they are assembled it's the design that's superior.

 

[cw1982]

Not really, it causes an unusually high attachment to a certain wintery themed movie that is starting to drive people crazy, in women who like "cute" things and whose own childhood was during that Black Cauldron era. But I'm trying to work on that!

Lol... Lol try having a birthday on December 25th.

 

[DisneyDad1977]

We are past that period, unfortunately.

Sorry for your loss Spirit.

 

[Mike S]

I'm not sure Universal needs a 3rd gate anymore than WDW did when they decided to open the disaster currently known as DHS. I'd rather see Universal stick with two parks that they keep investing in than to see them do what Disney did.

If Universal ever wants to get a little closer to Disney's level they probably would need a third park somewhere down the road. I fully agree that they should also continue to invest in the two parks they already have. Either way the rumors about the third park said it's pretty far off from now and we'll be seeing the water park way sooner. Plenty of time to continue adding to the current parks while blue sky designing the third in the background.

 

[wendysmom]

So sorry for your loss..I lost my best friend a few years back, and weight was ultimately to blame. Always thought she was going to start losing. So hard. =(

 

[twebber55]

If Universal ever wants to get a little closer to Disney's level they probably would need a third park somewhere down the road. I fully agree that they should also invest in and continue adding to their current parks. Either way the rumors about the third park said it's pretty far off from now and we'll be seeing the water park way sooner. Plenty of time to continue adding to the current parks while blue sky designing the third in the background.

agree
length of stay would go up quite a bit

 

[PeterAlt]

Beastly Kingdom didn't get built because Disney's Parks & Resorts domestic capex reached Eisner's all-time high of 31% in 1998. Eisner was spending money like the proverbial drunken sailor and yet theme park purists like Jim Hill were clamoring for more.

Since WDW opened in 1971, the only time capex ever has been higher was in fiscal years 1981 and 1982. (You remember, that little old thing called EPCOT. ) Iger has never come close to 31% domestic capex.

Jill Hill called it "the Walt Disney Company's recent cost cutting craze" but 31% was unsustainable. A realistic number would have been closer to 17%.

Eisner was under tremendous pressure to cut spending yet he already had committed to DCA.

Meanwhile, financial expectations were sky-high for DAK. DAK did not meet them, not even close. If Jim Hill wanted more built, he should have gone door-to-door telling everyone he could to go visit WDW and spend money.

By the time Jim Hill published his piece on December 31, 2000, Parks & Resorts revenue was already flatlining and, by the end of 2001, would absolutely crater.

I understand where Jim Hill is coming from but, like so many armchair quarterbacks, he has no appreciation of the business side of what it's like to have spending go throw the roof while those with no business sense think that throwing in a couple of hundred million more should be no big deal, all because Jim Hill wanted Beastly Kingdom.

Thanks for another great post! A few comments and questions in random order...

1. I wonder if the same could be said about Micechat constant praise for Disney's decision to spend what they have spent on DCA 2.0 and constant beating of the drum that the DCA 2.0 investment must be followed by more investment. Hence, their disapproval of MM+ and their claim that that investment has delayed or cancelled some planned capex spending projects for DLR. From how I read your post, it looks like Miceage is pulling the same thing Jim Hill did. In fact, after my recent visit there, I can say with confidence that of the six domestic parks, EC is in need of the most capex, followed by AK (in order to make it a full day park), HS (to add to it), MK (to upgrade and add), and ranking in fifth and sixth place in terms of needing capex are the two DLR parks: DCA first because there's still not enough to see there and DL last because there's more than enough to see and do there and most of its attractions have been upgraded and restored (Tomorrowland could use new attractions and Splash Mountain could be upgraded). My point is the bulk of capex should (for now) go to Florida.

2. What has capex peaked at so far under Iger and when?

3. An important factor Eisner, I assume, overlooked when clamping down own capex in 1998 is the fact that a good expensive attraction can boost guest attendance both short term and long term. Just look at MK's Splash Mountain and HS's TZToT as examples. I bet attendance at those parks would have been consistently lower on a year to year basis had these attractions (or other quality E tickets in its place) not have been built. Remember, in all of EuroDisney's early problems, they still found a way to finance Space Mountain. After Space Mountain opened, attendance numbers shot up and have been consistent. My point is AK's numbers would not be down had Eisner financed an E-ticket attraction for it. The money could have come from any number of projects, such as delaying construction of WWoS or Blizzard Beach, or AKL, or Pop Century. Those projects I listed, though revenue producers, were not urgently needed at the time. A great deal was being spent in AK ($900 million) and an E-ticket follow-up project was needed in order to protect that investment for both short and long term. I give him credit, though, he did approve EE later on.

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

@WDW1974 So sorry to hear of your ill family member. You and yours will be in my thoughts.

And I agree with your comment on how disney shouldn't make it so easy to "eat around the world" and gain, gain, gain. I was looking back through my WDW photos on my lunch break today and realized that almost every one of them taken on a path, walkway, main gate, and hotel have an ECV either occupied or sitting outside an area (main culprits were the tangled toilets) and it's...very troubling.

 

[ThemeParkJunkee]

WDW1974, I appreciate you taking the time to come back and comment through such a difficult time for your family. You are in my thoughts. Remember always that you are appreciated here and many are thinking of you as you go through your troubles. I, for one, am grateful for your humor, insight and irreverent commentary.

 

[Darth Sidious]

@WDW1974 Any thoughts on Eisner pimping Netflix's Bojack Horseman so publicly? (Or him saying a certain former US Vice President was Doctor Strangelove masquerading as "#PrincessAurora"? *popcorn* )

Well, it is his production company.

 

[Rteetz]

I wen on Jim Hills website for fun. Found a new article posted about two alternate sites that could've been where Disneyland is. At the end he says the Toy Story lot may be starting construction soon to become a massive multilevel parking garage and then other lots would be freed up to become the long rumored 3rd gate...

 

[Mike S]

I wen on Jim Hills website for fun. Found a new article posted about two alternate sites that could've been where Disneyland is. At the end he says the Toy Story lot may be starting construction soon to become a massive multilevel parking garage and then other lots would be freed up to become the long rumored 3rd gate...

I wonder which will happen first, Universal Orlando's or Disneyland's?

 

[Gabe1]

And just go back a couple weeks, which is like 100 pages + in this thread and you'll see how screwed up USB-A or whatever connectors can get due to people jamming connectors in backwards. USB C in the future, lightning today, don't have this problem.
http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/the-spirited-seventh-heaven.884731/page-705#post-6281582
image courtesy of @Gabe1

First credit where credit is due, the photo's belong as originally credited to touring plans skubersky

I understand the pro's of lightening, but that has nothing to do with that discussion. That charging station is just over a year old and it should be operational to support Disney's DME. My point of the post way back when was Disney not having a maintenance schedule for making sure their equipment was in good working order, which it was not, 12 broken, 0 operational. IMO Disney's operations model should not be relent on guests to go to Guest Services to report nothing in their recharging station is operational and that all units are broken. When Disney install systems like this they should have a maintenance system in place to make sure the system is remains operational. It should be part of that departments job description and duties. As I said that kinda stuff drives me nuts, they advertise it on their maps yet don't bother to keep operational. Even more important now that they removed the trial charging lockers. All of this should have been imagineered into the DME before it was launched.

 

[Darth Sidious]

Spirit in sorry to hear about your personal family matters. I hope better times head your way and that you know many of us send our condolences.

 

[lazyboy97o]

First credit where credit is due, the photo's belong as originally credited to touring plans skubersky

I understand the pro's of lightening, but that has nothing to do with that discussion. That charging station is just over a year old and it should be operational to support Disney's DME. My point of the post way back when was Disney not having a maintenance schedule for making sure their equipment was in good working order, which it was not, 12 broken, 0 operational. IMO Disney's operations model should not be relent on guests to go to Guest Services to report nothing in their recharging station is operational and that all units are broken. When Disney install systems like this they should have a maintenance system in place to make sure the system is remains operational. It should be part of that departments job description and duties. As I said that kinda stuff drives me nuts, they advertise it on their maps yet don't bother to keep operational. Even more important now that they removed the trial charging lockers. All of this should have been imagineered into the DME before it was launched.

Nobody was disagreeing that Disney needs to be proactive and check their equipment. @ABQ was just using that to illustrate how quickly USB-A can be destroyed but that the Lightning-esque USB-C should be more durable in the face of such usage. They'll still need to be properly monitored and replaced, but do offer the promise of lasting longer under such rough use.

 

[misterID]

Spirited Musings:

I will likely be away from these MAGICal waters for the foreseeable future due to a family health crisis.

Why I hate social media? Read this:

http://www.adweek.com/adfreak/guys-...verything-thats-wrong-911-brand-tweets-160060

Did you notice that there are about five threads here talking about Apple toys now? Do you think that would be the case if Disney was doing exciting things in Florida?

I was a bit shocked to see the Paramount Pictures theme park in Spain is going forward to the point that land has been cleared and construction is supposed to begin shortly (and, apparently, the UK park isn't dead yet either). They say the Murcia park will open in 2016, but I find that very hard to believe.

A major component in the park (a 100% licensed deal) will be Star Trek (which I'm sure you know I am much more fond of than George Lucas Iger's Star Wars). A lot of the UNI fanbois have been aTwitter about Star Trek coming to UNI in O-Town and all I can say is ''Not yet,'' at least according to my insiders who have been right just about 100% of the time. Of course, ST could appear overseas (there's a development in Jordan, the Red Sea Astarium that has a Star Trek area including a film being produced by Bad Robot moving forward) and at UNI in the USA.

As CBS debuts Thursday Night Football tonight (is there a thing as too much?), one most wonder how the NFL Commish, who is blatantly lying about the Ray Rice domestic abuse, keeps his job. Where have you gone Paul Tagliabue?

A friend checked out the Newport Bay Club at DLP and reports good things about the top to bottom redo ... an actual rebuilding of the resort. Trust me, you have never seen any Disney resort anywhere look as bad as this place had been.

Hey Marvel Fanbois, did you note that Spidey himself attacked Sony this week for their cutting what he felt were crucial parts of Spidey 2 this year? I still haven't seen that film. Looks like a good inflight film.

Friends out west report that Duffy is being marginalized at DLR and ''will almost certainly'' fade away in the next year.

I may well not be around, but when @wdwmagic puts news out on the next upcharge events for Christmas season at WDW (at least two parks right now look like a done deal), please think of me in your hearts (or pants)!

Tropical rains in Florida, now? Yep. It's September ... summer isn't over for almost two more months.

Who would have thought that nicest Wendy's in the world just got built on the site of a ghetto unit outside the world famous Sawgrass Mills Outlet Mall (and Spa!) in lovely and very corrupt Sunrise, Fl.?

Hey, I can't make news up about WDW ... talk is slow ... I muse so long as I breathe.

Ah, so terrible, man. My condolences and hope everything works out for you.

BTW, the FP+ really helps the Disney guest who's shaved off days for UNI and you're not spending those extra days in the park anymore.

 

[PeterAlt]

The below chart is something I posted earlier on this thread and should give you an idea of how capital expenditure (capex) is tied to projects at WDW.

There are a few points to keep in mind.

This chart is heavily weighed towards what happened at WDW. DCL is included but only DLR's biggest ticket items are included.

Similarly, this chart does not specify WDW hotels. From 1990 to 1994, Disney added over 9,000 rooms as well as the infrastructure to support the guests in those rooms. After that rush, WDW hotels were added at a steadier pace.

The cost of some projects were spread out over years, depending on how they were funded.

One final point to consider is that MyMagic+ had heavy operating expenditure (opex) startup costs, much more so than the typical brick & mortar project. A large chunk of its cost is not reflected in capex. How much MyMagic+ "cost" depends on how the question is asked.

View attachment 64620

So, basically, we are where we were during Eisner's all time low in spending (not adjusted for inflation?). In that point of view, the only way to go now is up.

With no new projects announced for WDW, capex for the next few years is to be divided between Avatar (and the new upgrades and shows for AK) and Disney Springs. That amounts to what? Around $150 million for 2015 (assuming Avatar is $800 million)? That is indeed a lot more than DLR (which has no project commitments for that FY) and yet the lowest capex spending ever in both Iger's and Eisner's years in office (assuming the capex number in percentage converted to actual dollar amounts is higher than my estimated FY 2015 dollar amount number). My estimate also assumes no project being announced for that FY, which most likely will not be the case, if Star Wars and other projects are announced.

Basically, 2015 is a crossroads turning point for the company. Either it will regress to the pre-Eisner days or it could bask in the glory reminiscent of that golden era. I'm inclined to think it will do the right thing, but I'm feeling uneasy about it the years begin to pass.