flynnibus
Premium Member
Yes, now almost 30 years later. Imagine what Disney could come up with if they actually had a passion for it again.. you know.. when Disney lead industries instead of advertised details as their actual product.
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The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...
- Thread starter WDW1974
- Start date
Yes, now almost 30 years later. Imagine what Disney could come up with if they actually had a passion for it again.. you know.. when Disney lead industries instead of advertised details as their actual product.
AEfx
Well-Known Member
Oh, thank you so much for enlightening us to your world-view...how thoughtful of you to explain all this to us plain folk.
x1000The real take-away here is that you haven't paid much attention to the conversations going on, and are taking on that "I just got out of college, so let me tell you all how the world is because I have a passport" tone that in ten years you will recognize and roll your eyes at, as well, especially when someone drags that out in the middle of a conversation they don't even understand.
No one with a brain thinks WDI are "creatively bankrupt" - they are creatively stymied by budgets and unwillingness of those who hold the purse strings to let them compete. If that's what you get from the posts here, you aren't playing close enough attention. They are capable of so much more than we get, but that's not the conversation that is going on here.
Why is money spent lavishly on the Asian parks? Because largely other entities have money and/or influence involved (like the Government of Hong Kong, or The Oriental Land Company). It's wonderful you have traveled to them all, but you are like the 1% of the 1% of the 1% of folks who go to the stateside Disney parks that will ever experience them. Even of those folks who do travel to France, or Asia, they don't have it on their agenda to go to a Disney park; in their view - why would they go to what they can get here when traveling across the world to a foreign land - I've had folks practically spit at the suggestion of going to a Disney park when you are in the middle of Europe, for example. You might as well say you are going on a world tour of McDonalds.
Inadvertently, though, you have hit upon the crux of the issue that gets many of us so riled up - it's not that they can't, it's that they won't.
Disney is fully capable creatively of making the most astonishing world-class kiss-my--Universal attractions ever seen by man in the states - they just don't.
theRIOT
Active Member
No sir. It would be simply marvelous. Consider it. Seriously.
Oh, I think there have been posters here on this thread that said exactly that - that WDI just can't deliver anymore because they don't have the creative ability. It might not be what you are discussing, or @WDW1974 (if he ever comes back to his thread...), or many others. But I have read it quite a few times over the last weeks.
flynnibus
Premium Member
Oh I think they are creatively 'lost' as well. They seem to prioritize the wrong things and can't correct their own internal torments and ineffeciencies - which screams leadership problems. This adds up to very competent people wandering aimlessly and delievering poorly because they don't have a focus on the RIGHT things.
Disney is building the Macintosh Performa line of attractions... overpriced, misguided, and inferior to what the teams are capable of producing under the correct leadership.
BrianLo
Well-Known Member
Oh, thank you so much for enlightening us to your world-view...how thoughtful of you to explain all this to us plain folk.
The real take-away here is that you haven't paid much attention to the conversations going on, and are taking on that "I just got out of college, so let me tell you all how the world is because I have a passport" tone that in ten years you will recognize and roll your eyes at, as well, especially when someone drags that out in the middle of a conversation they don't even understand.
Sorry, that was really not my intention in the least. I apologize that it came off that way, I really wanted to just summarize all of the things Disney (and Universal for that matter) have achieved despite the state of WDW. My post wasn't actually meant against the points you are making (which I agree with), it more so to the months of chatter that WDI is incapable. It really wasn't targeted to your conversation at all...
Again, I really apologize that it came off that way and see why it did.
That was kind of the point I was trying to make all along, but I clearly lost it along the way in my jabbering. It wasn't inadvertent, but I'm sorry that the delivery was so poor once again.
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MinnieM123
Premium Member
I knew someone would challenge that statement, but, I stand by it. If you can tell one fish from another fish in that same species, I'll take it all back. That's probably why they don't name them. I, obviously, am not an expert nor do I have any real interest in watching fish swim. It seems to me that they just swim back and forth and back and forth. I don't know what, if any, just passed me by a few minutes ago or one that I have never seen before. It's a lot like watching grass grow. I don't see any reason to be all excited because a fish can swim any more then they are jacked up because I can drive a car. They are pretty interesting to watch when you first encounter them, but, the fascination wears off, for me at least, very quickly. After that, if you've seen one fish, you have seen them all. The dolphins (mammals that swim) are fun because they will go fetch a stick (not always), but, the rest don't do anything to entertain me. I do like some of them with tarter sauce though, does that count?
Just a hypothetical thought here—given the choice of two options: 1) watching fish, or, 2) watching other animals over at AK—I'd choose watching all the animals on Kilimanjaro Safari. However, that's not to say that viewing all different kinds of fish in a tank doesn't have it's own appeal.
IMO, fish are very interesting to watch. It's not like you get to see all these different types of fish every day, swimming around in these huge water tanks. Also, I actually find that the rhythmic movement of the fish creates a calming, peaceful, break from the other attractions in the parks, and well worth a visit while at WDW.
(P.S.: Your tarter sauce comment was amusing, though!)
I think they're more like kids in a candy store, not sure what big thing they want to do next. They're trying to cram twenty years of development and expansion into five.
It's overlooked that Potter 1.0 wasn't the turning point. It was the catalyst. Potter 1.0 was overseen by Universal's previous ownership. Comcast came in, saw the profits, came to the obvious conclusion (immersive and innovative lands based on properties with a passionate fan base print money!), and have doubled/tripled/quadrupled down on parks and resorts.
Disney's only a factor in the sense that they see an opening in Orlando to be the primary destination and are building the infrastructure necessary to do it. They're not trying to compete with Disney as much as they are using their playbook to build a bigger business. Orlando will be the flagship Universal property, always having a lot more than the sister parks around the world, but exporting/importing as much as possible from them.
They're playing close attention to what works, experimenting at all of their parks and cloning what works the best. To focus on the attendance horse race is to miss the point completely. Their goal is to be the most creative and immersive theme park resort in the world because they think that's the best way to maximize revenue and the power of their brand. And they're right.
The tipping point is not going to be Universal stealing away 2 or 3 days from Disney instead of 1. Splitting a trip between the two Orlando resorts is exorbitantly expensive. No, the tipping point will be when families can look at both Universal and Disney and realize they need to spend a week at only one of them, and more start choosing Universal.
If both resorts stay on their current trajectory with their current philosophies, that will actually happen. Nostalgia and branding won't be enough to save Disney, not if there's a comparable but better and fresher experience down the road that also costs significantly less.
This thread has gone on too long with the Disney versus Universal junk. Disney has been building in Asia while Universal has built in Orlando. Which company made the better decision? If you only looked on this site the answer is clearly Universal.
The problem is that there are not just two theme park companies. While Universal has spent in Orlando, Merlin has continued to expand all over the world and Six Flags has come out of their we 2008 financial problems and bankruptcy. They are now back and will be building around 10 new theme parks in China and maybe the company that actually builds in Dubai. Their expansion will more than double their worldwide attendance to we'll over 50 million. The other questions I have is with their new partner in China will they be able to get a few Pandas for the Jackson Safari? Will they finally have the size to leverage dark ride development into their parks? If the can then with the DC rights they could give Disney and Universal problems.
Now back to the theme park rankings. What is more likely to happen? Universal passing number 2 ranked Merlin? Number 4 ranked Oct park passing number 3 ranked Universal? And finally can number 5 ranked Six Flags Pass Universal? How about this. China companies have been buying out American companies so isn't it obvious that Oct Park will buy an American theme park company and pass Universal anyway? Yes. Once that happens there will be more mergers. The problem for Disney and Comcast is due to anti trust they can't buy any other American theme park company. Disney is too big and Comcast can't because of the cable ownership and broadcasting and other IP issues. So in ten years what will the theme park rankings look like? Number 1 will still be Disney but the to Disney Parks will be in China and Japan and Disney will be Building in India and Brazil. Number 2 will still be Merlin and they will still be expanding all over the world. Number 3 will be Oct Park and they will own an American theme park company most likely Sea World. Number 4 will be Six Flags after their worldwide expansion which will continue. Number 5 Universal but the will be drawing 30 million in Orlando double their current Orlando attendance. Remember the theme park industry is a business and it's worldwide and while Orlando will still be the number 1 location overall in 10 years it's importance will continue to drop, so who has made the better investments over the last few years Universal or Disney? Wall Street knows the answer, Disney because they invested in China in a big way and Universal didn't.
The problem is that there are not just two theme park companies. While Universal has spent in Orlando, Merlin has continued to expand all over the world and Six Flags has come out of their we 2008 financial problems and bankruptcy. They are now back and will be building around 10 new theme parks in China and maybe the company that actually builds in Dubai. Their expansion will more than double their worldwide attendance to we'll over 50 million. The other questions I have is with their new partner in China will they be able to get a few Pandas for the Jackson Safari? Will they finally have the size to leverage dark ride development into their parks? If the can then with the DC rights they could give Disney and Universal problems.
Now back to the theme park rankings. What is more likely to happen? Universal passing number 2 ranked Merlin? Number 4 ranked Oct park passing number 3 ranked Universal? And finally can number 5 ranked Six Flags Pass Universal? How about this. China companies have been buying out American companies so isn't it obvious that Oct Park will buy an American theme park company and pass Universal anyway? Yes. Once that happens there will be more mergers. The problem for Disney and Comcast is due to anti trust they can't buy any other American theme park company. Disney is too big and Comcast can't because of the cable ownership and broadcasting and other IP issues. So in ten years what will the theme park rankings look like? Number 1 will still be Disney but the to Disney Parks will be in China and Japan and Disney will be Building in India and Brazil. Number 2 will still be Merlin and they will still be expanding all over the world. Number 3 will be Oct Park and they will own an American theme park company most likely Sea World. Number 4 will be Six Flags after their worldwide expansion which will continue. Number 5 Universal but the will be drawing 30 million in Orlando double their current Orlando attendance. Remember the theme park industry is a business and it's worldwide and while Orlando will still be the number 1 location overall in 10 years it's importance will continue to drop, so who has made the better investments over the last few years Universal or Disney? Wall Street knows the answer, Disney because they invested in China in a big way and Universal didn't.
manutdfan1
Active Member
That's already happened for me. I love WDW as a whole to this day more than I love UOR (however things are slowly becoming more even), BUT for a young college graduate like me, it's much cheaper to go on a trip with my friends to UOR. In the end, the savings from going to UOR outweigh my love for Disney, especially now that Universal is more comparable. Harry Potter was my generation's IP. I feel comfortable saying that. Right now, I'm just going to pick a long weekend in UOR over a long weekend at WDW. Last year, I spent 2 days at UOR and 1 day at the MK. With Diagon Alley opening this summer, I'm spending all 3 days at Uni, AND it will be a cheaper trip. It just makes sense.
Nubs70
Well-Known Member
So now you're an expert in anti trust litigation?
wm49rs
A naughty bit o' crumpet
And here I was thinking all of this prattle would avoid the Disney vs. Universal debate. Can't imagine where that idea came from....
SherlockWayne
Active Member
I agree completely. WDI is not giving in kind for what they receive. Every designer received obstructions of all types, including financial. The trick is to be creative and to wow with what you have. Expensive does knot equal quality, creative vision and skillful execution does. WDI needs an overhaul, badly. They need to get back to their roots and redevelop the mindset of a smaller company eager to prove itself. Until they do this, their attractions will just be ok for a masterpiece price.
Castle Cake Apologist
Well-Known Member
I'm a few pages late (who isn't in these threads?) but I just wanted to thank you for sharing this, Martin. It was so fascinating to read.
Too bad much of New Tomorrowland didn't necessarily happen as planned. Plectu would have replaced CoP, yes?
Sidenote: I thought the initial Avatar announcement was vague, but I think the description of "New 3-D Musical Movie" takes the cake.
crispy
Well-Known Member
UOR vs. WDW is an apples-to-apples comparison. UOR v. everything WDI has done or may do over a 13 year period - not so much.
What Disney has done worldwide to what universal has done worldwide is apples to apples. Comparing Orlando alone is not because Disney looking at the world and not just Orlando. In any case they both are still growing in Orlando. This should not be a case of my company is better than your company. They right now are going after different markets. What is important for Orlando is total growth and not which one is growing more at any given time.
John
Well-Known Member
Really? only if your WDW. Uni very much cares about growth. Their market share is growing at an alarming rate. They care very much. WDI thought the market was mature and decided to go another way. How many times has this been said? Do you just choose to ignore simple facts?
If Disney is capable of operating so many theme parks, they're certainly capable of maintaining and improving them. Universal is clearly upgrading and expanding all of its parks at a rapid pace. Disney is doing great things around the world, which makes it all the more baffling why they aren't bringing some of those innovations to what is supposed to be their flagship resort. It's almost as if they're only interested in developing attractions if someone else is footing the bill, as is the case in their international parks.
Taking years upon years to do expansions at existing resorts is inexcusable and quite frankly, embarrassing to watch as a longtime fan of WDW.
LithiumBill
Well-Known Member
Did Spirit take a faux 1% July Vacation!?