The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...

[bhg469]

It is beautiful and the animattonics are amazing but it's a kiddie coaster... It isn't a thrill ride and cannot be compared to DA or even WWoHP... It will lose every time.

I agree it's not a thrill ride but to be fair, thrill rides aren't necessary in either park as long as it's top notch. If 7DMT was 3 times as long but half the speed, it could be a great dark ride and have a lot more capacity, probably would be an instant classic.

 

[Zac Skellington]

They probably are using reply -- the forum software hides quotes of ignored posters messages as well as the original messages themselves. I've viewed source of the page a couple times to confirm when @WDW1974 was responding to jt.

Nope. They were just commenting directly, after the annoying ones' post.

 

[The Crafty Veteran]

Not trying to make this Disney Vs Uni but if Universal gets too far ahead and successful, it will be hard for Disney to play catch up especially when right now they are very stagnant. And Disney really should start with their own IPs and then incorporate others, when you have an arsenal that large of family based films use them before going out and buying more.

Disney is playing catch up to Universal? Who has more theme park market share? Even just in Florida, Universal still feeds off Disney's leftovers.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

Disney is playing catch up to Universal? Who has more theme park market share? Even just in Florida, Universal still feeds off Disney's leftovers.

Inertia.

 

[SJN1279]

BTW, am I the only one who is going to miss Popeye and Sweet Haven if Toon Lagoon turns into Middle Earth?

 

[StageFrenzy]

BTW, am I the only one who is going to miss Popeye and Sweet Haven if Toon Lagoon turns into Middle Earth?

No

 

[Goofyernmost]

true but...

UNI
seems to be closing the gap

True, but it is a very large gap with a long way to go. Universal is a very nice park with many great attractions, however, what everyone seems to miss is that it is getting completely identified as a Harry Potter park. MK will never be referred to as a Seven Dwarfs Mine Train Park. In some ways, the HP logo might be a detriment over time. We'll see!

 

[Quinnmac000]

Disney is playing catch up to Universal? Who has more theme park market share? Even just in Florida, Universal still feeds off Disney's leftovers.

Anything i end up losing something therefore it is a loss; I have to gain that back plus more so thus I am playing catch up. (In how I see it).

 

[the.dreamfinder]

BTW, am I the only one who is going to miss Popeye and Sweet Haven if Toon Lagoon turns into Middle Earth?

Still think they should save LotR for their third gate.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Numbers are irrelevant. Universal Orlando Resort proven that Disney's understanding of the Orlando market was absolutely wrong but Walt Disney World remains operating under those completely disproven understandings. That is not a good sign. Those are the sort of arrogant actions that do lead to down falls that are never easy to reverse. Plenty of titans have fallen and Walt Disney World is not special, it too can fall.

 

[Bairstow]

Disney is playing catch up to Universal?

I wouldn't put it like that.
It depends on what you believe Disney is actually catching up to.
If we're talking about certain trends like merchandise/food/theme integration and general momentum in general, yes, Disney is having to "catch up", though I think "following suit" is probably a better phrase.

Who has more theme park market share? Even just in Florida, Universal still feeds off Disney's leftovers.

Not at all true.
While all Disney parks still lead Universal's raw numbers (or at least, has up until next full calendar year) there have been a number of sources who say that data indicates that a lot of families, especially Brits, have actually been giving Universal a much greater share of their souvenir and merch dollars than they do Disney. Dervish and Banges and Filch's have been getting the first, largest slice of that pie and it's been a license to print money for Universal.

 

[Bairstow]

Numbers are irrelevant. Universal Orlando Resort proven that Disney's understanding of the Orlando market was absolutely wrong but Walt Disney World remains operating under those completely disproven understandings.

What do you mean by this?

 

[GoofGoof]

Anything i end up losing something therefore it is a loss; I have to gain that back plus more so thus I am playing catch up. (In how I see it).

I wouldn't put it like that.
It depends on what you believe Disney is actually catching up to.
If we're talking about certain trends like merchandise/food/theme integration and general momentum in general, yes, Disney is having to "catch up", though I think "following suit" is probably a better phrase.




Not at all true.
While all Disney parks still lead Universal's raw numbers (or at least, has up until next full calendar year) there have been a number of sources who say that data indicates that a lot of families, especially Brits, have actually been giving Universal a much greater share of their souvenir and merch dollars than they do Disney. Dervish and Banges and Filch's have been getting the first, largest slice of that pie and it's been a license to print money for Universal.

WDW is playing catch up with itself and it's own past not Universal. WDW is also playing catch up with several other Disney parks. Universal is enjoying a good run and exploiting markets left untapped by Disney.

 

[wm49rs]

Disney is playing catch up to Universal? Who has more theme park market share? Even just in Florida, Universal still feeds off Disney's leftovers.

Possibly leftover Imagineers, but I'm fairly certain Universal is capable of pulling in their fair share of new visitors....

 

[lazyboy97o]

What do you mean by this?

Disney had come to the conclusion that the Orlando market was about as big as it would get. As such they moved away from trying to attraction more people to Orlando to getting more people who already planned to come to stay on property and getting people to spend more. Universal Orlando Resort was able to grow the Orlando market in a way Disney thought impossible. This shift has been compounded by a rather long standing strategy of creating growth through cuts, so just as Disney is trying to get people to spend more they're reducing the pace of new offerings and reducing existing offerings.

What this growth in the Orlando market has also proven is that Universal Orlando Resort is not dependent on Walt Disney World. It can attract people on its own.

 

[bhg469]

Disney had come to the conclusion that the Orlando market was about as big as it would get. As such they moved away from trying to attraction more people to Orlando to getting more people who already planned to come to stay on property and getting people to spend more. Universal Orlando Resort was able to grow the Orlando market in a way Disney thought impossible. This shift has been compounded by a rather long standing strategy of creating growth through cuts, so just as Disney is trying to get people to spend more they're reducing the pace of new offerings and reducing existing offerings.

What this growth in the Orlando market has also proven is that Universal Orlando Resort is not dependent on Walt Disney World. It can attract people on its own.

At the very least they can attract the locals and with their very reasonable annual pass they can keep them coming back. They are keeping attractions fresh though, so all they really need is to keep cutting into more of the week that people spend there.

 

[WDW1974]

Numbers are irrelevant. Universal Orlando Resort proven that Disney's understanding of the Orlando market was absolutely wrong but Walt Disney World remains operating under those completely disproven understandings. That is not a good sign. Those are the sort of arrogant actions that do lead to down falls that are never easy to reverse. Plenty of titans have fallen and Walt Disney World is not special, it too can fall.

History (especially the past two decades) is littered with HUGE names in American business that either don't exist at all anymore or exist in a tiny form compared to past greatness.

I am always amused when people just ignorantly assume that WDW is forever. It isn't.

Disney, under Iger, views O-Town as a mature market, hence NGE, which was designed to get more $$$ out of existing guests. Much like DVC is also designed to get more from the chronics, the addicts etc. ... That line of thinking is so wrong in so many ways. Yet that is what Iger, Rasulo and Staggs have sold the BoD and Wall Street on. One might surmise that with UNI growing its business so organically that those parties are going to start demanding answers louder and louder.

 

[WDW1974]

Oh, I sorta waded thru the last 20 pages or so, so I really can't comment on what was said right now.

I did notice some comments about the new rooms at the Grand Flo. They certainly are nicer than any room at a Hampton Inn, but they have gone from a very genteel Victorian feel to ... well ... Vegas circa 2009-2011. Those rooms are very much like what were put in to top Strip resorts about five years ago. Yes, as usual, Disney is on the cutting edge of trends (much like the RFID locks!)

I don't really dislike them. I don't really like them either.

The one issue I have with them is placing them on pedestals. That is cheap and done, so housekeepers don't have to clean under the beds (anyone who stays at WDW resorts knows that Mousekeepers never clean under the beds ... nothing like folks food and trash from six months ago under your MAGICal bed!). It also can save on carpeting, although I am not sure that this is the case here. But putting them up is a motel model, not a 4 or 5 star resort one.

 

[jdmdisney99]

History (especially the past two decades) is littered with HUGE names in American business that either don't exist at all anymore or exist in a tiny form compared to past greatness.

One peculiarly close to Disney is a perfect example...Kodak.

 

[WDW1974]

Let's talk about BRANDING since it is something I know plenty about.

I see folks having the typical WDW vs. UNI debate that will go on forever. The one thing that Disney's Pixie Dust addicts love playing on is this idea that Disney's parks are 'family parks' while UNI's only appeal to teens and 20-somethings. I am not going to defend UNI. I think the idea that they are not family parks is BS, although I certainly can understand why some families will have a pull toward Disney.

My issue is that WDW has moved away from attractions that are good for largely all ages. They segregate now with what they build, so you have attractions that are either too robust for many (Mission Space would be a great example, the 30-second thrill of RnRC would be another) or too targeted at girls under 10 (pretty much everything else). No, everyone couldn't ride everything in the 70s, 80s and 90s, but far more could experience things together. Sure, some would simply be afraid of the relatively mild Space Mountain, but most reasonable children and adults weren't (my Spirited grandfather rode right well into his 80s -- although he preferred BTMRR!)

Whenever people talk about Disney being 'for families' I just wonder 'whose family"? ... I recall my father's reaction on riding the Little Mermaid for the first time in 2012 ''it's fine if you're a seven-year-old girl'' ...

I'd love if Disney truly made attractions for families again. But the reality is, beyond things like KS at DAK and film-based attractions like PhilharMagic and Soarin, they sorta stopped doing that a long, long time ago. ... No, I don't want to meet Sofia The First or sit on the floor and watch kids dance with Jake and the Neverland Pirates, while an arrested development 31-year-old fanboi tries to explain why I should be enjoying this as much as I did the original Journey Into Imagination.