The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...

[WDW1974]

I think there is no doubt that Universal could really disrupt the water park market in the area. I think many guests will only visit one water park per trip, and something entirely new with cutting edge water attractions may be the winner. Of course, they will always have to contend with so many Disney visitors having one of Disney's water parks included in their ticket. That could be hard to beat. Either way, something coming from Universal might finally push Disney into adding something to the water parks. They are way overdue for something new.

There is considerable room for water park growth in O-Town, both with Disney and UNI and anyone who wanted to move in and spend serious $$$. Especially this time of year, BB, TL, AQ and WaW have no trouble filling up. Disney has been on again, off again on adding another water park since before they let RC sit out and rot. UNI has plans in this area as well.

 

[WDW1974]

None of Disney's money paid for the expansion of Tokyo Disneyland into the Tokyo Disney Resort. Disney instead profited from the massive spending because the Oriental Land Company must hire Walt Disney Imagineering and built and operate to standards now disregarded by Disney themselves. So while The Walt Disney Company was hacking away at Disney's California Adventure and not intervening in the guaranteed boondoggle that has been the Walt Disney Studios Park, they were saying that in Japan there needed to be more so that it could live up to Disney's standards. If it was their money, Disney would say that Tokyo DisneySEA is an unwise proposition and its maintenance budget unnecessary.

Pay special attention to the last sentence, which I bolded for your reading convenience.

 

[jdmdisney99]

Just wondering today...does anyone know when/if the film rights to the "Percy Jackson & the Olympians" book series will expire? I was just thinking, if Disney could get those rights they would have endless opportunities. Think 20 years down the road. It could be the new Harry Potter (the films released thus far have not been good at all) if they were faithful. I also thought that it would be a perfect competitor to the Hogwarts Express. Build Camp Half-Blood at DHS and then build a Greek myth area at either Epcot or a new adventure park and connect them with some sort of transport (perhaps the Furies' taxi). It would be popular, though it may come too late to capitalize on the books' major popularity.

 

[WDW1974]

I truly believe they are allowing this news to try and steal the uni thunder.. it does make sense and I am looking forward to my next florida work trip exclusively for that park.

They aren't allowing it. I have no doubt that they are responsible for feeding it. ... I almost sense a desperation in the notes I am getting.

If someone has proof, then now's the time to hand it over.

You don't like me because I am big and scary and carry a big schtick (that was for you Andy!)? Fine ... I don't need any of the attention, send it on to @Lee or @marni1971 ... folks who also have sterling reps for being honorable. Believe me, you won't hurt my feelings one bit. But, seriously, cut the crap. I think I'm going to change Jimmy's tonight!

 

[bhg469]

In your experience, which park allows info to leak more often and more freely?

 

[RSoxNo1]

The Wizzarding World Of Harry Potter in 2010 and Cars Land in 2012 both proved that the current economy is more than ready to provide a strong return on investment if the right product is built.

Heck, if you believe TEA's numbers, the New Fantasyland helped increase the Magic Kingdom's attendance by 6% while all the other parks were languishing at under 2%.

If you build it, people will come.

This is why if Frozen 2 is coming you do more than reskin Maelstorm, you give it a dedicated section in Fantasyland. My pipe dream of moving it's a small world isn't happening, but perhaps taking out Pinocchio's Village Haus is an easier solution, that opens up a backstage area. Option 2 could be getting rid of the meet and greet tents. Option 3 could be sacrificing the Speedway. Option 4 could be putting it in DHS. While moving it's a small world is still my preferred option, I would accept anywhere in Fantasyland. Put in a high capacity family friendly D/E-ticket dark ride, have a Donkey-esque Olaf Meet and Greet, and an Anna and Elsa meet and greet area with at least 3 rooms.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Both moves were as risk free as these things get. They now move so slowly and carefully in this economy. Can't say I blame them. Eisner did not have to deal with as many complex issues. I only mention him because you often compare the dynamics WDW faces today to what WDW faced 20-25 years ago. Everything has changed dramatically. Shrinking middle class, greatly increased competition and a stagnant economy all are limiting factors that have to be considered. IMO.

Harry Potter paid for itself very quickly, but this was a gamble on Universal's part. They also lucked into it because Disney botched the negotiation. They were so desperate for the hail mary that was Harry Potter they were willing to acquiesce to pretty much every demand.

Regarding Cars Land, the cost alone made it far from a slam dunk. Yes, it's a huge IP, but they spent a crap load of money on that ($600mm+) and it was anchored by a single attraction that reportedly cost $340 million.

 

[ChrisFL]

So is the talk of Universal's third gate just about the water park....not a regular theme park?

 

[RSoxNo1]

The Street's view usually doesn't get much past the most recent news cycle.

WWOHP was inexpensive and a huge success.

Transformers was inexpensive and a success.

They expect Diagon Alley to be inexpensive and a huge success.

Right now, The Street would love Universal to build more but that will sour the first time Uni stumbles. (And Uni will stumble; all companies do.)

Conversely, for Iger, "What Wall Street thinks" has become as limiting a factor as "What would Walt do?" was for the pre-Eisner generation.

Comcast and TWDC are huge conglomerates. They need to focus on smart business strategies; not on what Wall Street (or Walt) thinks.

I know the investment in Diagon Alley was substantial relative to the initial Potter investment. Having said that, I agree they're turning into Pixar where for some reason, the public is rooting for a failure so they can make the "first flop" story. It sounds like that may be King Kong from early reports, but I suspect they will still be riding the Phase 2 wave for that to be a problem.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Be honest, you would love to see Elsa shoot her bra into the crowd while singing "Let It Go". (Or "Let Them Go"as the case may be)

That's why you go see the redundantly titled, Frozen on Ice.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I think a similar argument can be made about the Animal Kingdom from an aesthetically pleasing standpoint. It is no where near as complete as DisneySea though.

 

[PhotoDave219]

OK, I interrupt this Happy Jason Surrell is Gone Day with something that's on my mind: namely Star Wars Land as it has come to be known in the fan community.

Look, I get it. I get that UNI is showcasing Diagon Alley and Potter 2.0 to the press this week. I get that Jimmy Fallon is taping the Tonight Show in O-Town in June because it matters that much to Comcast. I get that UNI is so twitchy about any info being leaked (even TM previews) that they have gotten nasty with multiple folks. I get that Disney is desperate for attention this week and has nothing to *****, nothing to draw the attention away from where it rightly belongs.

But understand this: I won't be used by The Mouse.

All this convenient chatter about SW and about things happening at TPFKaTD-MGMS, all the notes in my in-boxes, the phone messages. Cut the BS.

I won't put my cred on the line, I won't help Disney draw eyes UNLESS someone here (who is reading, not necessarily posting) gives me proof beyond the pale that shows something SW related is happening at WDW before 2018 or 2019. You worried about your job(s)? That's laughable. The only ones losing jobs at Disney, right now, seem to be folks who screw around with fans on the Internet when they should be paying attention to their spouses and newborns. No one is going to get fired for leaking something to me when I have a 100% track record in protecting sources and where info comes from.

But again, enough of the BS. Nothing is happening on the SW front beyond 4-5 years from now UNLESS you have proof and you're willing to give it to me. Otherwise, I am not aiding Disney in trying to steal a little online thunder from UNI as they prepare to open the most important theme park product to hit O-Town this century.

Don't bother me unless you've got proof that you are willing to cough up. Go play with the Twits and the Social Media Whores and BRAND advocates instead.

A little trust does go a long way. Think about it.

I feel a little foolish jumping the gun on shooting down these rumors, but its what I can prove right now.

I have trustable sources saying "Not Yet" while new people saying either "Its proposed in the new budget" or "Indy will close at the same time LMA will." (and for those of you who passed on that info, notice I'm not quoting you)... No i dunno who to believe. And I'm pretty ed off about it to the point where I'm not caring because I wont be used either.

Star Wars is inevitable. I dunno when, but it will happen.

 

[bhg469]

Harry Potter paid for itself very quickly, but this was a gamble on Universal's part. They also lucked into it because Disney botched the negotiation. They were so desperate for the hail mary that was Harry Potter they were willing to acquiesce to pretty much every demand.

Regarding Cars Land, the cost alone made it far from a slam dunk. Yes, it's a huge IP, but they spent a crap load of money on that ($600mm+) and it was anchored by a single attraction that reportedly cost $340 million.

I don't really see potter as a gambler though. It was a hugely popular IP and as long as it wasn't cheaply done it was going to be a big draw.

Just like star wars is a no Brainer and will draw even bigger numbers but the question remains if they will do it right or not.

 

[Mike S]

This is why if Frozen 2 is coming you do more than reskin Maelstorm, you give it a dedicated section in Fantasyland. My pipe dream of moving it's a small world isn't happening, but perhaps taking out Pinocchio's Village Haus is an easier solution, that opens up a backstage area. Option 2 could be getting rid of the meet and greet tents. Option 3 could be sacrificing the Speedway. Option 4 could be putting it in DHS. While moving it's a small world is still my preferred option, I would accept anywhere in Fantasyland. Put in a high capacity family friendly D/E-ticket dark ride, have a Donkey-esque Olaf Meet and Greet, and an Anna and Elsa meet and greet area with at least 3 rooms.

I think Frozen is big enough to have some kind of presence in all four parks. Ride and A&E M&G in MK, stage show in DHS, princess meal and the current exhibit in Epcot, and a Kristoff and living character Sven M&G in AK.

 

[PhotoDave219]

I think Frozen is big enough to have some kind of presence in all four parks. Ride and A&E M&G in MK, stage show in DHS, princess meal and the current exhibit in Epcot, and a Kristoff and living character Sven M&G in AK.

Or a Sven restaurant in DAK. Reindeer ribs!

 

[RSoxNo1]

I don't really see potter as a gambler though. It was a hugelyrics popular IP and as long as it wasn't cheaply done it was going to be a big draw.

Just like star wars is a no Brainer and will draw even bigger numbers but the question remains if they will do it right or not.

Harry Potter was the second time an entire intellectual property was set to drive a land. The previous time was Jurassic Park and it wasn't as successful. Yes, it is a great IP, but there certainly was risk.

 

[Darth Sidious]

Both moves were as risk free as these things get. They now move so slowly and carefully in this economy. Can't say I blame them. Eisner did not have to deal with as many complex issues. I only mention him because you often compare the dynamics WDW faces today to what WDW faced 20-25 years ago. Everything has changed dramatically. Shrinking middle class, greatly increased competition and a stagnant economy all are limiting factors that have to be considered. IMO.

There are parts of dealing with China that if fully disclosed would end in a court room or on CNN in an ethics debate. To deal with a powerful communist country you have to do as they say, especially when they are the majority sharehder. This could mean bribery, and no I'm not saying that's happening with Disney. It likely isn't but China is not risk free, you can harm your brand even which we all know how brand obsessed companies are today.

 

[Mike S]

Star Wars was the second time an entire intellectual property was set to drive a land. The previous time was Jurassic Park and it wasn't as successful. Yes, it is a great IP, but there certainly was risk.

Hopefully Jurassic World is successful and brings an update to the land.

 

[TalkingHead]

If the shots of Diagon Alley on the Tonight Show are any indication, it's going to look incredible at night.

I found it interesting that Fallon specifically mentioned riding the Hulk coaster -- they made sure to get a Marvel mention in there.

And I was a little surprised that the Ollivanders sketch played on the wand...uh..."euphemism." Wonder if JKR or WB had to sign off on that.

Some great PR for UNI. Fallon said something like, "I've seen the future of theme parks and it's Diagon Alley." Let the hype train roll on.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Hopefully Jurassic World is successful and brings an update to the land.

Hopefully, also I corrected my original post. It should have read Harry Potter was the 2nd IP based land, not Star Wars.