The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...

71jason

Well-Known Member
Why did they buy it then?

When they bought WnW, it wasn't quite so down-market yet; the continuing erosion of north I-Drive (only halted in the past 3 years) and the opening of Aquatica really did a number on it. Also I suspect many of the rides can be moved easily and repurposed elsewhere.
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
See this is why when I become head of the Walt Disney Company, I'm hiring you as my number two.
After thinking about it a bit further, it occurred to me what needs to happen at WDW.

WDW needs to build.

Some historical perspective is needed to justify this simple statement.

WDW’s business was on shaky ground prior to 9/11 due to deteriorating economic conditions. After increasing by double-digits for 6 consecutive years, P&R revenue increased by only 2.9% in fiscal year 2001. (Note that Disney’s fiscal year ends in September.)

As a direct result of 9/11, P&R revenue decreased by 7.7% in 2002 and decreased another 0.8% in 2003.

P&R investments were immediately impacted. They went from over 20% of P&R revenue in 2001 to under 10% in 2002.

A lot of what’s counted as “investing activities” is basic maintenance; Furniture, Fixtures, & Equipment (FF&E) in the business world vernacular. Essentially, what happened after 9/11 was that most special projects were cancelled and capital expenditures were limited to basic maintenance. Disney cut P&R budgets to the bone.

Those who remember the time might recall WDW closing some hotel buildings and even entire hotels. WDW went into survival mode.

Now, in that financial environment, P&R investments as a percentage of revenue cratered at 9.0% in 2003 before rebounding to 15.9% in Eisner’s last fiscal year (2005).

Yet Iger managed to average 9.6% during his first 4 years as CEO. From Wall Street’s perspective, “under 10%” became the new norm.

When the number increased to 23% in 2011 and 2012, Wall Street was concerned. Eisner and Rasulo frequently were asked, “When are you going to reduce P&R investments?”

In 2013 and the first half of 2014, the number was down to about 15%. Taking into consideration the large financial commitment to Shanghai Disneyland, domestic P&R investing activities currently are at post-9/11 levels.

Yet for Eisner’s tenure prior to 9/11, P&R investments as a percentage of revenue averaged over 26%.

Iger, Rasulo, and Wall Street think that investing 15% is sufficient. However, historically, it’s an incredibly low number for Disney.

What Iger & Rasulo have done is establish a new low standard for P&R investments that Wall Street has become accustomed to.

For the last 3 years, theme park revenue growth primarily has been through higher prices. With the notable exception of Cars Land, this is what Disney reports quarter after quarter.

“Perpetual price increase” is not a viable long-term business strategy. Not surprisingly, customers expect to receive more when they are asked to pay more. Disney’s price increases are turning away a growing segment of their core market.

WDW’s business over the last few years has been propped up by a significant increase in attendance from Brazil and Argentina. The problem is: WDW has saturated that market.

Median income for guests from those two countries exceeds $100K. That places those visiting WDW in the top 2-to-3% of incomes in their respective countries. There simply aren’t enough people left in those countries who can afford WDW vacations. That market has peaked.

WDW needs to look for new sources to grow revenue. That means North America and Europe. Long-term, simply charging more only drives those markets away. Long-term, trying to squeeze pennies out of them through MyMagic+ on prices that already are up 25% over the last 3 years is simply going to be ineffective.

Rather than continuing to raise prices, Disney needs to add value back into a WDW vacation. That means either lowering prices or adding content.

There was an economic boom at WDW in the mid-2000s due to creative pricing. Disney offered some really good room discounts, added Disney's Magic Express (DME), and created the less-expensive Magic Your Way (MYW) base ticket. Disney added value back into a WDW vacation.

Still, getting most senior executives to reduce prices is like asking them to sacrifice their first-born children. That leaves corporate Disney with earning money the old-fashioned way: investing.

Plain and simple, Disney needs to invest in WDW at levels more in keeping with what they once did; levels that resulted in consistent double-digit growth.

WDW needs to build.

Oh, and getting a little more creative with pricing and adding value into the onsite hotels wouldn’t hurt either. :)
 
Last edited:

flynnibus

Premium Member
But the tickets aren't bundled. Yes, that "Florida Pass" or whatever it's called is out there, but it's not advertised by Universal in anyway.

FlexPass.. It's right there on USF's opening ticket page
https://www.universalorlando.com/Theme-Park-Tickets/General-Admission.aspx

The transportation is also advertised right on USF's page on transportation/hotels.

Again.. it's all about what is the incremental gain vs the outlay required? Why expand into an already saturated market you already play in through your partnership with a leader in the market?

It would be extremely expensive and distracting to build something that tries to compete on the open market as a stand-alone entity.. so that leaves 'resort perk'.. something they arguably already offer a significant portion of. Can they do more and better with their own? Of course... but at what ROI vs what they have now??
 

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
LeBron is an all-time great. I don't know how to compare him to Jordan, who struggled for years to get past the Pistons and only did when he had a great team around him. That sorta sounds like LeBron who was the entire team in Cleveland.

I don't really get the hate for the Heat. They went out and put together an amazing team that has been to the finals four years in a row (something that the Spurs have never done) and have won twice. Pat Riley is a class act and he built the organization that way.

I certainly agree that the Eastern Conference is weaker than the West, so Miami didn't really face a decent team until Indiana. But that doesn't negate or diminish their greatness.
in Jordan's defence.. he had to face more complete teams with lots of stars.. a lot of them on their prime.
 

gmajew

Premium Member
LeBron is an all-time great. I don't know how to compare him to Jordan, who struggled for years to get past the Pistons and only did when he had a great team around him. That sorta sounds like LeBron who was the entire team in Cleveland.

I don't really get the hate for the Heat. They went out and put together an amazing team that has been to the finals four years in a row (something that the Spurs have never done) and have won twice. Pat Riley is a class act and he built the organization that way.

I certainly agree that the Eastern Conference is weaker than the West, so Miami didn't really face a decent team until Indiana. But that doesn't negate or diminish their greatness.


Lebron and Jordan are two of the greatest basketball players of all time for many different reasons though. i grow up watching Jordan and living in Chicago he was and will be the best ever for me. But I am not stupid enough to say Lebron stinks or is not great. He is a physical freak and what he has done in his time in the NBA is outstanding he is a blast to watch. People need to get over his PR team screw up on the "decision" and respect the man for his on court talent. Just like the spurs what a great great organization. To do what they have over 16years is crazy!
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
After thinking about it a bit further, it occurred to me what needs to happen at WDW.

WDW needs to build.

Some historical perspective is needed to explain this simple statement.

WDW’s business was on shaky ground prior to 9/11 due to deteriorating economic conditions. After increasing by double-digits for 6 consecutive years, P&R revenue increased by only 2.9% in fiscal year 2001. (Note that Disney’s fiscal year ends in September.)

As a direct result of 9/11, P&R revenue decreased by 7.7% in 2002 and decreased another 0.8% in 2003.

P&R investments were immediately impacted. They went from over 20% of P&R revenue in 2001 to under 10% in 2002.

A lot of what’s counted as “investing activities” is basic maintenance; Furniture, Fixtures, & Equipment (FF&E) in the business world vernacular. Essentially, what happened after 9/11 was that most special projects were cancelled and capital expenditures were limited to basic maintenance. Disney cut P&R budgets to the bone.

Those who remember the time might recall WDW closing some hotel buildings and even entire hotels. WDW went into survival mode.

Now, in that financial environment, P&R investments as a percentage of revenue cratered at 9.0% in 2003 before rebounding to 15.9% in Eisner’s last fiscal year (2005).

Yet Iger managed to average 9.6% during his first 4 years as CEO. From Wall Street’s perspective, “under 10%” became the new norm.

When the number increased to 23% in 2011 and 2012, Wall Street was concerned. Eisner and Rasulo frequently were asked, “When are you going to reduce P&R investments?”

In 2013 and the first half of 2014, the number was down to about 15%. Taking into consideration the large financial commitment to Shanghai Disneyland, domestic P&R investing activities currently are at post-9/11 levels.

Yet for Eisner’s tenure prior to 9/11, P&R investments as a percentage of revenue averaged over 26%.

Iger, Rasulo, and Wall Street think that investing 15% is sufficient. However, historically, it’s an incredibly low number for Disney.

What Iger & Rasulo have done is establish a new low standard for P&R investments that Wall Street has become accustomed to.

For the last 3 years, theme park revenue growth primarily has been through higher prices. With the notable exception of Cars Land, this is what Disney reports quarter after quarter.

“Perpetual price increase” is not a viable long-term business strategy. Not surprisingly, customers expect to receive more when they are asked to pay more. Disney’s price increases are turning away a growing segment of their core market.

WDW’s business over the last few years has been propped up by a significant increase in attendance from Brazil and Argentina. The problem is: WDW has saturated that market.

Median income for guests from those two countries exceeds $100K. That places those visiting WDW in the top 2-to-3% of incomes in their respective countries. There simply aren’t enough people left in those countries who can afford WDW vacations. That market has peaked.

WDW needs to look for new sources to grow revenue. That means North America and Europe. Long-term, simply charging more only drives those markets away. Long-term, trying to squeeze pennies out of them through MyMagic+ on prices that already are up 25% over the last 3 years is simply going to be ineffective.

Rather than continuing to raise prices, Disney needs to add value back into a WDW vacation. That means either lowering prices or adding content.

There was an ecnomic boom at WDW in the mid-2000s due to creative pricing. Disney offered some really good room discounts, added Disney's Magic Express (DME), and created the less-expensive Magic Your Way (MYW) base ticket. Disney added value back into a WDW vacation.

Still, getting most senior executives to reduce prices is like asking them to sacrifice their first-born children. That leaves corporate Disney with earning money the old-fashioned way: investing.

Plain and simple, Disney needs to invest in WDW at the levels more in keeping with what it once did; levels that resulted in consistent double-digit growth.

WDW needs to build.

Oh, and getting a little more creative with pricing and adding value into the onsite hotels wouldn’t hurt either. :)

We all agree with that... you just have the business vernacular and are able to give cause to why this should happen.

You have to give guests a reason to keep coming back. You have to keep it fresh.
 

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
The finisher medal debate can get really intense...and I can't adequately explain why but Disney's policy of giving them to everyone makes me pretty angry. Admittedly somewhat irrationally so. Maybe it's because I don't consider myself a natural runner and have to work my butt off all year to get in marathon shape (20-mile run in NE Ohio winter, yeehaw!), so earning that medal really means something to me. Maybe it's because runDisney specifically calls them FINISHER medals and not PARTICIPATION medals. To me that means crossing the finish line is the way to get the medal. If not, why not just give them out at the expo? In my opinion, if you finish you earn the medal - for participating you get the shirt.! :)


they could just clearly display the "Participant medal" rank for those who participate..
then a better medal with the "Finisher medal" to those who finish the race.

then of course.. better medals considering their ranks and time "New record" "1st Place" ..etc..
 

Witchy Chick

Well-Known Member
To get you started I have it on high authority 68 MK benches, ripped out of the park by the Iger team, are stored by the parade float barns behind Splash.

That's the storage area that guests are shown on the backstage KttK tour? I think I've been there before. I'm on it!! Or should we go with "green" benches -- made of recycled plastics? Tax break, good PR. It might be worth thinking about. Especially if we are installing A LOT of benches. :D

I'm not a runner; have no direct experience. But this whole running discussion has me convinced that this is just another example of Disney's Walmarting of WDW. Just grabbing as many "easy" dollars as fast as they can, long term consequences be damned. Which means the runners can huff and puff all they want, but things are unlikely to improve until there is a philosophical change at Disney.

Absolutely. I'm not sure of the history on the runDisney races, but I think they started with only half and full marathons at WDW and DLR. Here is the current list of races:

WDW Marathon Weekend (January)
  • full marathon, half marathon, the "Goofy" (running both the half and full, back-to-back days), 10K, 5K (there are two 5Ks now -- the regular one at WWoS Complex and the "new" one run on Castaway Cay), the "Dopey" challenge (running 5K/10K/half/full on four consecutive days)

WDW Princess Half-Marathon Weekend (February)
  • Princess half marathon, Enchanted 10K, Glass Slipper challenge (running both the 10K and the half, back-to-back days), Royal Family 5K

WDW Expedition Everest Challenge (May)
  • 5K Obstacle Course/Scavenger Hunt

WDW Tower of Terror 10 miler (October)
  • 10 mile Trail Run, 5K Trail Run (trail run = various terrains, grass/pavement/sand)

WDW Wine and Dine Weekend (November)
  • half-marathon and 5K Jingle Jungle

DLR Star Wars Half-Marathon Weekend (new race, starting January 2015)
  • half marathon, 10K, "Rebel Challenge" (running the 10K and half on back-to-back days). 5K

DLR Tinkerbell Half-Marathon Weekend (May)
  • Half marathon, 10K, 5K

DLR Half-Marathon Weekend (August)
  • half marathon, 10K, Dumbo Double Dare (running the 10K and half on back-to-back days), 5K

DLR Avengers Half-Marathon Weekend (new race, starting November 2014)
  • half marathon, 5K

There are also "Coast to Coast" medals awarded for running halfs at both WDW and DLR. (DLR can only accommodate half marathons due to the size of the parks; the half courses run outside the parks throughout Anaheim also.)
 

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
Like I said "being a tool to help build up the resort image"

But UNI already partners with Aquatica.. and WetnWild.. including the Orlando Flex Ticket and free shuttle service from their hotels to the water parks.

Sure building a local water park would improve the 'unified image' - but at what return? Is the return there to spend all that cap and opex to try to be better than Aquatica?
I was under the impression Wet N Wild goes away once the new waterpark opens.
 

Soarin' Over Pgh

Well-Known Member
Don't let those guests sit around. Keep moving.


Until they drop dead from heat exhaustion, then send in Maleficient's crow and the rowdy crew of bad guys from Robin Hood to pick their corpses clean of cash.

Hearing the stories of the benches removed and literally sitting in storage while they are sorely needed in parks is really disheartening.

I guess Disney doesn't understand that some people would buy MORE in terms of food and beverage if they had a place to sit- and even better, a place to sit in the shade and recharge... then go strong and end the day in the giftshops. Instead we get to buy a $15 piece of crap water blowing fan thing and you can sit on the toilet, because that's in the shade and eff you if you want something better than that.

So.:greedy: Much. :greedy: Money.:greedy: Grabbing. :greedy:
 

seascape

Well-Known Member
Until they drop dead from heat exhaustion, then send in Maleficient's crow and the rowdy crew of bad guys from Robin Hood to pick their corpses clean of cash.

Hearing the stories of the benches removed and literally sitting in storage while they are sorely needed in parks is really disheartening.

I guess Disney doesn't understand that some people would buy MORE in terms of food and beverage if they had a place to sit- and even better, a place to sit in the shade and recharge... then go strong and end the day in the giftshops. Instead we get to buy a $15 piece of crap water blowing fan thing and you can sit on the toilet, because that's in the shade and eff you if you want something better than that.

So.:greedy: Much. :greedy: Money.:greedy: Grabbing. :greedy:
I agree with the seats. If they had more especially in the store for the husband's to sit at and talk to the other husband's who are waiting while their wives shop. In fact if they had a bar in some of the stores they'd make even more.
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
LMA is on the way out too. It is just a question of when, not if. ... Remember when you used that line repeatedly for years on end about TSFKaDD? Eventually, you have to be right. Well, this will end much quicker.

Would not be disappointed to see that corner of the studios reimagined.

Yeah DTD/PI went as I expected.

Happy to know I will eventually be right about that 5th gate too. I once predicted a twin park with DAK that would be based on the '7 seas'. Looking forward to that. Although that might have to wait for a Marvel based park. Heh.
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
After thinking about it a bit further, it occurred to me what needs to happen at WDW.

WDW needs to build.

Some historical perspective is needed to explain this simple statement.

WDW’s business was on shaky ground prior to 9/11 due to deteriorating economic conditions. After increasing by double-digits for 6 consecutive years, P&R revenue increased by only 2.9% in fiscal year 2001. (Note that Disney’s fiscal year ends in September.)

As a direct result of 9/11, P&R revenue decreased by 7.7% in 2002 and decreased another 0.8% in 2003.

P&R investments were immediately impacted. They went from over 20% of P&R revenue in 2001 to under 10% in 2002.

A lot of what’s counted as “investing activities” is basic maintenance; Furniture, Fixtures, & Equipment (FF&E) in the business world vernacular. Essentially, what happened after 9/11 was that most special projects were cancelled and capital expenditures were limited to basic maintenance. Disney cut P&R budgets to the bone.

Those who remember the time might recall WDW closing some hotel buildings and even entire hotels. WDW went into survival mode.

Now, in that financial environment, P&R investments as a percentage of revenue cratered at 9.0% in 2003 before rebounding to 15.9% in Eisner’s last fiscal year (2005).

Yet Iger managed to average 9.6% during his first 4 years as CEO. From Wall Street’s perspective, “under 10%” became the new norm.

When the number increased to 23% in 2011 and 2012, Wall Street was concerned. Eisner and Rasulo frequently were asked, “When are you going to reduce P&R investments?”

In 2013 and the first half of 2014, the number was down to about 15%. Taking into consideration the large financial commitment to Shanghai Disneyland, domestic P&R investing activities currently are at post-9/11 levels.

Yet for Eisner’s tenure prior to 9/11, P&R investments as a percentage of revenue averaged over 26%.

Iger, Rasulo, and Wall Street think that investing 15% is sufficient. However, historically, it’s an incredibly low number for Disney.

What Iger & Rasulo have done is establish a new low standard for P&R investments that Wall Street has become accustomed to.

For the last 3 years, theme park revenue growth primarily has been through higher prices. With the notable exception of Cars Land, this is what Disney reports quarter after quarter.

“Perpetual price increase” is not a viable long-term business strategy. Not surprisingly, customers expect to receive more when they are asked to pay more. Disney’s price increases are turning away a growing segment of their core market.

WDW’s business over the last few years has been propped up by a significant increase in attendance from Brazil and Argentina. The problem is: WDW has saturated that market.

Median income for guests from those two countries exceeds $100K. That places those visiting WDW in the top 2-to-3% of incomes in their respective countries. There simply aren’t enough people left in those countries who can afford WDW vacations. That market has peaked.

WDW needs to look for new sources to grow revenue. That means North America and Europe. Long-term, simply charging more only drives those markets away. Long-term, trying to squeeze pennies out of them through MyMagic+ on prices that already are up 25% over the last 3 years is simply going to be ineffective.

Rather than continuing to raise prices, Disney needs to add value back into a WDW vacation. That means either lowering prices or adding content.

There was an ecnomic boom at WDW in the mid-2000s due to creative pricing. Disney offered some really good room discounts, added Disney's Magic Express (DME), and created the less-expensive Magic Your Way (MYW) base ticket. Disney added value back into a WDW vacation.

Still, getting most senior executives to reduce prices is like asking them to sacrifice their first-born children. That leaves corporate Disney with earning money the old-fashioned way: investing.

Plain and simple, Disney needs to invest in WDW at the levels more in keeping with what it once did; levels that resulted in consistent double-digit growth.

WDW needs to build.

Oh, and getting a little more creative with pricing and adding value into the onsite hotels wouldn’t hurt either. :)

You do amazing research but you act as though Disney is not connected to the rest of the economy which is underperforming and has been for a long time. Until that changes expect more of the same.
 

FigmentFreak

Well-Known Member
Can we have someone in charge of doling out personal responsibility as well?

Me Me. I want to be in charge of personal responsibility.

I see myself doing the Cher in Moonstruck slapping people and yelling "Snap Out of It!" When they are caught being irresponsible.

And to keep it Disney I'd do it with the big White Mickey hand on, with a cut out where my hand could make actual contact with their face.
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom