The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...

Runnin'Gator

Active Member
If if were you and 100 other people.. yes. But it's you and 20k other people. You don't line 20k people up next to each other. They line you up in 'corals' which are big holding areas and release corals in waves. It's supposed to be fastest people up front so the crowd stretches out.. but when you put slow people up front.. you have the back of the crowd running into the front of the crowd... and hence the problem.

Imagine trying to run down main street on a crowded MK day.. dodging around people. Now do that for MILES and do it in something you are trying to run your best time in.



Run.. and then have someone just stop right in front of you. Run and twist your ankle trying to dodge people. Watch what happens when someone trips in a crowd of 100 people and with 5,000 people running up behind them. Watch what happens when people trip on curbs, different surfaces, etc.

Since people have no frame of reference. Here's a photo to give you some perspective. This is the Army Ten Miler in 2006 at Mile Marker 5. 5 MILES into the race.. and look at how thick the crowd is still

View attachment 56506

Look out to the right to where the photo drops off.. yes.. that is still a solid mass of people as far as you can see. It goes on like this for ages. This is not 'sprint 10 minutes and you are in the clear'.



'would suffice' :rolleyes: - take a look at a real race and understand the magnitude of what we are talking about here.
And don't forget that a lot of these races either start in the dark or are run completely in the dark. It's difficult to have to watch your footing while running in and out of walkers. During the first Tower of Terror 10 miler I had to run in the grass coming out of the studios just to avoid all of the walkers who had lined up in Corral B.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Thats rather disturbing. Given some of the places you've been, I'm not horribly shocked.... just a tad unnerving.

It used to bother me. Greatly. And I went thru proper channels and all that legal crap that gets you nowhere and makes you feel even more paranoid. But I've come to accept the fact that I am important ... because, really, who would waste their time, money and effort if I were of no consequence? It keeps me warm on these cold 79 degree nights!
 

Bolna

Well-Known Member
On the racing issue, one thing that keeps me wondering is how much of a problem is it that people are more or less told by The RunDisney running guru (forgot the name) to not run the whole race, but to do a run/walk interval thing? This is something that I never saw people do at my races here in Germany and I think it makes it problematic as you might have the same people passing you over and over again when they are in their running interval and the fall behind you when they walk.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
On the racing issue, one thing that keeps me wondering is how much of a problem is it that people are more or less told by The RunDisney running guru (forgot the name) to not run the whole race, but to do a run/walk interval thing? This is something that I never saw people do at my races here in Germany and I think it makes it problematic as you might have the same people passing you over and over again when they are in their running interval and the fall behind you when they walk.

That, I believe, is a relatively new development ... I also tend to believe it is because the races have begun attracting a much more novice (ie. have no business running) crowd. And people dropping dead or stroking out on the course or just causing a bunch of serious runners to go down in a pile isn't going to be good for RunDisney's PR and bottom line.

But instead of weeding these folks out, Disney is coddling them ... sorta like mentally feeble Lifestylers.
 

TalkingHead

Well-Known Member
LeBron is an all-time great. I don't know how to compare him to Jordan, who struggled for years to get past the Pistons and only did when he had a great team around him. That sorta sounds like LeBron who was the entire team in Cleveland.

I don't really get the hate for the Heat. They went out and put together an amazing team that has been to the finals four years in a row (something that the Spurs have never done) and have won twice. Pat Riley is a class act and he built the organization that way.

I certainly agree that the Eastern Conference is weaker than the West, so Miami didn't really face a decent team until Indiana. But that doesn't negate or diminish their greatness.

"Not one, not two, not..." Well, yeah, actually, it was two.

All the talk about LeBron needing more help -- well, he got plenty of help in Miami, and it resulted in two O'Brien trophies. That's good, but -- face it, the one last year would've been the Spurs' if it wasn't for Ray Allen. Not that I think San Antonio cares that much at the moment.

You don't get the hate for the Heat? Take off the hometown glasses, man! I actually liked the Heat just fine before James and Bosh joined up, but the branding of this team has been intolerable, thanks largely to the ESPN machine.

And then there's the Heat fanbase which, for a large metro area, has got to be one of the worst in the NBA. The fans streaming out last year at the end of regulation in Game 6, only to turn around and try to get back in the building for OT. I realize that wasn't everyone, but...ehh...not a good look.

I'll be happy when they go back to being a basketball team and not the Big Three Brand.
 

Runnin'Gator

Active Member
On the racing issue, one thing that keeps me wondering is how much of a problem is it that people are more or less told by The RunDisney running guru (forgot the name) to not run the whole race, but to do a run/walk interval thing? This is something that I never saw people do at my races here in Germany and I think it makes it problematic as you might have the same people passing you over and over again when they are in their running interval and the fall behind you when they walk.
Galloway does encourage the run/walk method. They generally tend to stay to the right side of the road and not get in anyone's way. But like Ariel said there are a lot of bottlenecks in the parks that can be tricky, especially for the shorter runs and half marathons. The whole idea behind it is to keep your legs fresher. I'm not going to argue with Galloway because he knows what he's talking about much more than I do, but it's not for me. I prefer to suffer my way through the whole course if possible.

I'm not sure if it's been said, but the walkers try to push up into the first few corrals because it gives them extra time to complete the course. The time for sweeping doesn't start until the last person crosses the start line. If you can work your way up, you may only need to run a 17 or 18 minute mile to avoid the sweepers. Shoot, a 16 minute mile is a brisk walk.
 

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
I still wonder why these races are not done in escalated format.

Example, people with experience on 10k's run first..
then the ones who are casual, then the newcomers.. then the walkers just for fun ones.
 

TalkingHead

Well-Known Member
And this is the whole issue I have with Social Media today. Andy can take shots at me in the Twitverse in public about my schtick and whether it is funny, and all these passive aggressive twits join in. Sean used to have no issues with me (used to post here as Hokie Skipper before he joined in a mutiny years ago and left), but now he is a podcaster (who also tweets approximately once every 73 seconds while working for a defense contractor, remember what I have said about all those post 9/11 jobs being great?) and wants attention for his online venture. Then, there's good old dead Card Walker (who seems to appear when another member of that clique disappears from Twitter, I am sure that is mere coincidence just like when Clark Kent vanishes and the man in tights and a cape appears ...yep) who seems to have some issue with me. ... None of these folks want to actually chat with me or you or us. But they sure love taking shots EVEN WHEN YOU PRAISE THEM!

As far as I can tell, the Twitverse is good for sarcastic one-liners, one- or two-sentence debates, pictures of the meal you had at the park for dinner on Tuesday night, and hyperventilating reviews ("Blah blah blah is THE. WORST." "Blah blah blah is THE. BEST." "My wallet hates me for buying one of everything in Diagon." "Exposed queue is poison to my eyes." "Man can live on Butterbeer alone." And so on.)

There's no attempt to have a fully-developed conversation; the format doesn't allow it.

But it sure as hell is good for subtweeting and talking (stuff) about people.
 

Bolna

Well-Known Member
I still wonder why these races are not done in escalated format.

Example, people with experience on 10k's run first..
then the ones who are casual, then the newcomers.. then the walkers just for fun ones.

That's what they try to do. But people cheat on what they tell Disney about what their experience is. And as @Runnin'Gator said there is a huge incentive especially for the really slow people to cheat. Also, I think that while for many other races your 10k time is a good indicator as to what your half marathon time will be, that's not the case when so many of your participants only started running any distance half a year ago. I can see many people keeping up quite well for the first 12km and then being totally exhausted and only able to walk and hence making it problematic for runners that are slower but keep their speed constant throughout the race.
 

Runnin'Gator

Active Member
That's what they try to do. But people cheat on what they tell Disney about what their experience is. And as @Runnin'Gator said there is a huge incentive especially for the really slow people to cheat. Also, I think that while for many other races your 10k time is a good indicator as to what your half marathon time will be, that's not the case when so many of your participants only started running any distance half a year ago. I can see many people keeping up quite well for the first 12km and then being totally exhausted and only able to walk and hence making it problematic for runners that are slower but keep their speed constant throughout the race.
Some of the other runners might be able to speak to this better than I can, but I think at some point the time you submit has nothing to do with which corral you're placed in. The Elite runners will be placed at the very front, and you're not running with them unless you're verified. I want to say A through D or E (for the halfs) is based on your submitted time, but I'm not sure about anything after that. I ran the Wine and Dine with three friends and they were scattered all over the place -- and it didn't seem to be based on their times.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
"Not one, not two, not..." Well, yeah, actually, it was two.

All the talk about LeBron needing more help -- well, he got plenty of help in Miami, and it resulted in two O'Brien trophies. That's good, but -- face it, the one last year would've been the Spurs' if it wasn't for Ray Allen. Not that I think San Antonio cares that much at the moment.

Yes, he did. And the first year they struggled mightily to mesh as a team. And still made the Finals, only to lose to a Dallas team stoked for revenge (you may recall Miami's first NBA title came at the expense of the Mavs).

LeBron was great last year both regular season and playoffs. So what if Ray Allen hit the shot that led to that title. That's why he was signed. You gonna blame LeBron for it.

You don't get the hate for the Heat? Take off the hometown glasses, man! I actually liked the Heat just fine before James and Bosh joined up, but the branding of this team has been intolerable, thanks largely to the ESPN machine.

Sounds like you have an issue with ESPN. Take that up with Disney. I think the way the team was marketed -- and leBron's ridiculous decision show -- shouldn't be a reason to hate a team or diminish its accomplishments. They are on an absolute great run (this series included). And knowing Riles, I'd bet he'll grab Carmello and some spare part off a team's salary capped junk heap. In other words, I wouldn't expect Miami to be anywhere but the top for the next few years.

And then there's the Heat fanbase which, for a large metro area, has got to be one of the worst in the NBA. The fans streaming out last year at the end of regulation in Game 6, only to turn around and try to get back in the building for OT. I realize that wasn't everyone, but...ehh...not a good look.

I'll be happy when they go back to being a basketball team and not the Big Three Brand.

Miami sports fans suck. Period. Take that from someone who grew up here and watched the Miami Dolphins (back when they were of note) get blacked out on local TV because they couldn't sell out and then listen to folks talk about why everyone had so much to do (beaches, golf courses, local events, even the O-Town theme parks) and couldn't go to eight regular season football games. I watched it as UM was a dynasty and they still would have 40,000 fans unless they were playing FSU (the Gators were, and are, afraid to play them) or a Top 10 foe. ... Heat, Marlins, Panthers etc ... all same tale. Miami isn't a good sports town. But it does have one helluva NBA franchise. And I'd bet that anyone not in San Antonio right now would swap their entire roster for it.
 

spacemt354

Chili's
LeBron is an all-time great. I don't know how to compare him to Jordan, who struggled for years to get past the Pistons and only did when he had a great team around him. That sorta sounds like LeBron who was the entire team in Cleveland.

I don't really get the hate for the Heat. They went out and put together an amazing team that has been to the finals four years in a row (something that the Spurs have never done) and have won twice. Pat Riley is a class act and he built the organization that way.

I certainly agree that the Eastern Conference is weaker than the West, so Miami didn't really face a decent team until Indiana. But that doesn't negate or diminish their greatness.
LeBron is an all-time great, but to compare to Jordan is an insult to Jordan.

Lebron is 2-3 in the finals (with 2 of the losses coming with Miami. Jordan was 6-0 in the finals with 6 MVPs. And to be honest if he didn't retire in his prime, they could have won 7 or 8.

Jordan also made his teammates better. He would rip them in post-game press conferences if they didn't perform and would yell at them mid-game if he didn't see something he liked. He was their unquestioned leader and motivation. That's something that isn't in LeBron's character. He left the game with 5 mins left and got coddled on the bench.

He isn't the only reason they lost the finals, but to be defeated like this just shows there is a lack of a team leader who motivated his teammates to perform at a higher level when it matters most. Miami looked gassed and tired. Yeah they made it to 4 finals which is quite and achievement, but to be honest I view the spurs getting to 2 straight finals out west as a better accomplishment. The most competition Miami had in the east was a old celtics team in 2012 and the pacers in 2013/14. If you put those teams up against teams in the west, they wouldn't get out of the first round. Heck remember the spurs went to 7 games this year against the mavericks in the first round. It shows that while Miami is a great team, the lack of competition and a motivational leader is what makes them fall short in my eyes.

And LeBron vs Jordan is a comparison Lebron created himself when he wore 23 and called himself the chosen one. Well, the excuse was he didn't have a team in Cleveland. Now he's lost 2/4 times with a team he wanted. What's the excuse now? Bringing in Carmelo is not going to help what this team really needs... Good defenders, a point guard, and a TEAM mentality.
 
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