The Spirited Back Nine ...

[DougK]

It appears you and I are in agreement. A broken window does not justify guests breaking more windows. "Everyone else was speeding" is no reason not pay your speeding ticket. (Although that has been argued, sometimes successfully, in court. )

What I am suggesting is that the overwhelming culprit of this bad behavior is Disney itself. It is the way Disney as a business has been treating its 'guests' in recent years, versus how Disney used to treat its guests.

When I pay $15 for a meal, I have one level of expectation. When I pay $60 for a meal, I have a different level of expectation.

$15 and $60 are not arbitrary numbers. That's how much the price of a meal at Cinderella's Royal Table has increased in the last dozen years. At $60 per plate, doesn't the consumer have a right to demand more, and be upset about it if Disney fails to deliver?

At the hotels, rooms at the Contemporary used to be available for the inflation-adjusted equivalent of about $150-to-$200/night.

Back in the 1970s and 1980s, today's equivalent of $200/night was not cheap and many families had to stretch to afford it but service was outstanding. Year after year, Disney reported occupancy rates of 95% or above. People knew they were getting a great deal.

Heck, it wasn't that long ago (mid-2000s) that I remember getting a room in the Garden Wing of the Contemporary in the spring for about $230/night with no discount.

Today, that same room lists for $436/night.

Disney was famous for its army of comparatively well-paid custodial staff. A CM might receive 30-50% more than they do today, and with better perks. It encouraged harder work since CMs knew they had a plumb job.

High-level managers were there on the front lines every day, leading by example. Today, they hide behind their desks or sit in endless meetings with their heads buried in their smart phones.

The higher pay coupled with more involved management led to the most valuable asset when running an organization: pride of work. Sadly, 'leaders' such as Iger and Rasulo don't understand what a transformational effect this has on a workplace. They think a bunch of PowerPoint slides titled "The Disney Difference" is a substitute for real leadership.

Back in WDW's Golden Age, broken and worn items were replaced immediately. My favorite personal example is what I call the "bench incident".

I was at the central hub at MK in the 1980s with friends and noticed a bench with chipped paint on one arm. We joked about it for the rest of the day. We even took a photo. Wouldn't you know it, we came back the next day and the chip was fixed to the point that we couldn't see where the chip had been! That was the level of maintenance WDW provided to its guests.

Let's consider alcohol. Even after it became available at the parks, alcohol was found only in the restaurants. Guests didn't get sloshed the way they do today because alcohol wasn't "in your face" the way it is today. Guess what? Drunk people tend to behave worse than sober people.

As we read over-and-over, the theme parks have never been so crowded. 'Guests' are waiting in lines that are longer than ever. Guests are spending huge sums only to be treated like cattle.

Meanwhile, Disney's domestic capital expenditure is once again at a record low under Iger and Rasulo. Hey guys, rather than dragging your feet, why not stop spending tens-of-billions lining your own pockets with stock buybacks and start spending on additional capacity, new attractions, and even a 5th Gate to help relieve the overcrowding?

The point is that all these changes, instituted by Disney management in order to squeeze pennies out of their 'guests', have changed the way Disney treats its 'guests', resulting in a cultural shift in the way 'guests' behave at WDW.

Yes, 'guests' might be behaving worse than they did before, but it's largely because Disney has never treated them this badly before.

@ParentsOf4
One of your best posts ever! Can I like this 1000 times? Not "like" because I like what you are saying, but "like" because I agree with what you are saying. All of it. And it makes me both sad and angry that it is all true.

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

@ParentsOf4
One of your best posts ever! Can I like this 1000 times? Not "like" because I like what you are saying, but "like" because I agree with what you are saying. All of it. And it makes me both sad and angry that it is all true.

Can we get it on its own dedicated website and permanently tack it to @ParentsOf4 signature? Better yet, how about all his posts, and hashtag the link to every disney higher-up and board member, every day of the year until someone gets the hint and (hires him, paying him boatloads of money) does something about it?

 

[PhotoDave219]

Ask any CM how many time they've heard "But I'm paying X thousand dollars on this vacation, I need ...".

It leads to the "commando" mentality, as well, and guest metrics built solely on the number of attractions experienced in a given day.

That metric is somewhere between 8-9 to quantify a full day of fun.

 

[GoofGoof]

I hate to admit it, but I remember finding Epcot boring when I was a kid (back in the '80s). My sisters and I liked the Imagination ride and the Mexico boat ride, but would complain that the rest was "too much like school" (our way of saying that we wanted more Mickey and less science) and ask to go back to MK. It wasn't until I was older that Epcot really grew on me and became my favorite park. Now I could spend the whole day just wandering around World Showcase.

To that end, I can understand the inclination to put more characters in the park and add more rides like Test Track, even if they dilute the original theme and it's not what I would prefer as an adult.

To each their own. There are also many people that find MK boring. They want rides that spin them until they vomit or giant steel roller coasters and could care less about theme, ride plots/stories or AA figures.

I enjoyed visiting museums, the zoo and historic sites as a kid too. I knew plenty of kids that hated those types of school trips. To me the pavilions at EPCOT were like interactive museum exhibits that both taught you but entertained as well. Getting the combination of rides and the exhibits made it even better.

 

[John]

It appears you and I are in agreement. A broken window does not justify guests breaking more windows. "Everyone else was speeding" is no reason not pay your speeding ticket. (Although that has been argued, sometimes successfully, in court. )

What I am suggesting is that the overwhelming culprit of this bad behavior at WDW is Disney itself. It is the way Disney as a business has been treating its 'guests' in recent years, versus how Disney used to treat its guests.

When I pay $15 for a meal, I have one level of expectation. When I pay $60 for a meal, I have a different level of expectation.

$15 and $60 are not arbitrary numbers. That's how much the price of a meal at Cinderella's Royal Table has increased in the last dozen years. At $60 per plate, doesn't the consumer have a right to demand more, and be upset about it if Disney fails to deliver?

At the hotels, rooms at the Contemporary used to be available for the inflation-adjusted equivalent of about $150-to-$200/night.

Back in the 1970s and 1980s, today's equivalent of $200/night was not cheap and many families had to stretch to afford it but service was outstanding. Year after year, Disney reported occupancy rates of 95% or above. People knew they were getting a great deal.

Heck, it wasn't that long ago (mid-2000s) that I remember getting a room in the Garden Wing of the Contemporary in the spring for about $230/night with no discount.

Today, that same room lists for $436/night.

Disney was famous for its army of comparatively well-paid custodial staff. A CM might receive 30-50% more than they do today, and with better perks. It encouraged harder work since CMs knew they had a plumb job.

High-level managers were there on the front lines every day, leading by example. Today, they hide behind their desks or sit in endless meetings with their heads buried in their smart phones.

The higher pay coupled with more involved management led to the most valuable asset when running an organization: pride of work. Sadly, 'leaders' such as Iger and Rasulo don't understand what a transformational effect this has on a workplace. They think a bunch of PowerPoint slides titled "The Disney Difference" is a substitute for real leadership.

Back in WDW's Golden Age, broken and worn items were replaced immediately. My favorite personal example is what I call the "bench incident".

I was at the central hub at MK in the 1980s with friends and noticed a bench with chipped paint on one arm. We joked about it for the rest of the day. We even took a photo. Wouldn't you know it, we came back the next day and the chip was fixed to the point that we couldn't see where the chip had been! That was the level of maintenance WDW provided to its guests.

Let's consider alcohol. Even after it became available at the parks, alcohol was found only in the restaurants. Guests didn't get sloshed the way they do today because alcohol wasn't "in your face" the way it is today. Guess what? Drunk people tend to behave worse than sober people.

As we read over-and-over, the theme parks have never been so crowded. 'Guests' are waiting in lines that are longer than ever. Guests are spending huge sums only to be treated like cattle.

Meanwhile, Disney's domestic capital expenditure is once again at a record low under Iger and Rasulo. Hey guys, rather than dragging your feet, why not stop spending tens-of-billions lining your own pockets with stock buybacks and start spending on additional capacity, new attractions, and even a 5th Gate to help relieve the overcrowding?

The point is that all these changes, instituted by Disney management in order to squeeze pennies out of their 'guests', have changed the way Disney treats its 'guests', resulting in a cultural shift in the way 'guests' behave at WDW.

Yes, 'guests' might be behaving worse than they did before, but it's largely because Disney has never treated them this badly before.

Seriously, there is nothing left to say.....Whenever the words Doom and Gloom come up. Just copy and paste this. The culture has changed. Management culture, guest culture....in that order, its no big secret that it will only change when the management changes. Disney is not interested in being the leader anymore...at least not in the hospitality business. They only want to be the leader in the money making business. Which is fine.....but it is possible to do both.

 

[tirian]

Conversely, how many kids (and adults!) have been dragged through Epcot because they thought it was boring, and wanted to go to the park with the rides, especially in the early days?

I do get the point, and classic Epcot dark rides being lost puts a hole in my soul. But while in many ways I'm receptive to it myself (or I wouldn't be here), I just look at AK as a good example of what happens when too much emphasis is put on style and theme and message, and not enough on rides/attractions.

That's why I think all all that stuff is great - but secondary, because you can have the most profound conceptual ideas known to man woven in there, but what gets folks through the gate to see that stuff is exciting rides and attractions, not the other way around. As I said above, I do agree that they tend to be what appeals to those who become long-term fans, but we are not typical of guests (as I'm sure almost all of us can attest to getting "that look" when folks find out that you do or have visited WDW frequently, they don't understand the appeal in going even annually).

Of course, in a perfect world, I am sure everyone agrees - we want the best of both, which is what Disney used to do - and what they will hopefully do again.



I believe it's on the extras disc in the Film Collection Blu-ray Box set of the TNG films. Of course, it's just the video portions, but there is also a good doc about the place and it's closing. Talking about this and the BTTF one has me thinking I'll have to dig them out this week and watch them again. It's also got me wondering if the Aliens one (there is a simulator ride - I rode it once at the Empire State Building but I believe it's been cloned elsewhere) is on that set - there are 60 hours of extras on those, I have yet to comb that deeply through.

Of course, we also have the Sleeping Beauty walk-through one on that disc, and the original TLM ride on the TLM DVD (not sure if that made it to the Blu, haven't thought to check yet).

It would be very interesting to compile a list of the officially released ride-throughs like that. I'd like to see more of that - like the Batman/Justice League simulators that they do overseas at places like the WB park that we'll never see here stateside released on some of the Animated Batman discs.

I am totally gunning for Star Tours 1.0 though on the next Star Wars set...just seems too obvious to not include, plus it would be a nice sale pitch for it when it's being sold in the parks to folks that don't realize they could order it on their phone from Amazon and have it waiting at home when they get back, for half the price of what Disney will probably charge on site as they usually charge MSRP.



EDIT: Yup, just checked, the Aliens one is on that set as well. I'm going to have fun today watching all these in a row LOL. Apparently it was also in SF, though I very definitely saw it in NYC at the ESB.

"Aliens: Ride at the Speed of Fright (SD, 8:16): Video footage from the iWerks Entertainment attraction at Fisherman's Wharf in San Francisco."

Few extras were carried to the new Sleeping Beauty Blu-Ray. The galleries, castle walkthrough, and short films are gone. This is a disgusting example of how the Diamond Collection series has removed bonus features for no reason.

 

[tirian]

To each their own. There are also many people that find MK boring. They want rides that spin them until they vomit or giant steel roller coasters and could care less about theme, ride plots/stories or AA figures.

I enjoyed visiting museums, the zoo and historic sites as a kid too. I knew plenty of kids that hated those types of school trips. To me the pavilions at EPCOT were like interactive museum exhibits that both taught you but entertained as well. Getting the combination of rides and the exhibits made it even better.

Many people tell me they loved EPCOT Center as kids. Its modern reputation as a boring place seems to be mostly an Internet myth.

 

[tirian]

I hate to admit it, but I remember finding Epcot boring when I was a kid (back in the '80s). My sisters and I liked the Imagination ride and the Mexico boat ride, but would complain that the rest was "too much like school" (our way of saying that we wanted more Mickey and less science) and ask to go back to MK. It wasn't until I was older that Epcot really grew on me and became my favorite park. Now I could spend the whole day just wandering around World Showcase.

To that end, I can understand the inclination to put more characters in the park and add more rides like Test Track, even if they dilute the original theme and it's not what I would prefer as an adult.

But it's okay not to target everything to children.

 

[WDW1974]

Spirited Monday Musings:

So, I leave the thread Wednesday night and it has jumped from 26 pages to 54? I doubt I'll be catching up on all those posts.

Just in case you believe in 'Turkey Before Tree' or any such archaic notion, please realize that Christmas (or the 'holidays' as WDW wants to call them) begins this week ... like now ... even if you're still polishing off the candy from Halloween, even if you still haven't put those decorations away.

Kudos to @WDWFigment for some truly great blog posts on the Asian parks at Halloween.

Speaking of Asia, got a more detailed note on the projects headed to TDR in the years to come. Small World, indeed, has structural issues that made relocating the attraction much easier to swallow. The artwork isn't final anymore than the MK's was. While the Beast's Castle is seen, one would be mistaken to jump to the conclusion that BoG is headed there. ... And Frozen fans ... well, they'll be getting their money's worth (and more!) at TDS.

The more I think about Diagon Alley, the more impressed I was with it. The more I think about Gringotts, the less impressed I become.

Fires like last night's little adventure on Mine Train Mountain wouldn't be happening IF WDW did what DLR and TDR regularly do: namely cancel pyro shows in windy and poor conditions.

An interesting preview of Disney's annual earnings:
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/what-to-look-for-in-disney-earnings-2014-11-03

As Disney fanbois with initials like JT get excited by the impending opening of a parking garage, I thought this story on one of the new eateries at TSSTBFKaDD was interesting and telling about doing business with the rodent: http://www.scottjosephorlando.com/index.php/news/2698-morimoto-in-name-only

And this is an update on who might be moving into the most hyped Lifestyle center in Florida: http://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/...y-springs-retailers-lead-disney-docs-for.html

So, all the local bloggers and Lifestylers got to see Big Hero 6 for free in a preview? Shocking ... right? I bet they all loved it and think it will be huge.

Networks seem afraid to cancel shows this season, which actually is a good thing ... unlike say ... Agents of CRAP. (I'm sorry, I just can't help but laugh at Marvel fanbois ... where were they a decade ago?)

Look for WDW to make it tougher for CMs to actually use their maingates in the near future (you know, the big benefit that makes eating Dog Chow OK because you get to work for Disney!)

Still not confirmed but 99% sure that the Ozzy and Sharon Lightacular will not be shown in 2015, at least not in current form.

Finally, Happy B-Day to @Lee ... the best hillbilly pal a Spirit could ever have. You, my friend, are MAGICal!!!

 

[lazyboy97o]

Just in case you believe in 'Turkey Before Tree' or any such archaic notion, please realize that Christmas (or the 'holidays' as WDW wants to call them) begins this week ... like now ... even if you're still polishing off the candy from Halloween, even if you still haven't put those decorations away.

Christmas had already began last week while I was out at some malls.

 

[WDW1974]

A very dangerous question to answer indeed! LOL

Several factors r involved but mainly she won't fly over an ocean...that doesn't mean me and the kids won't make it there someday, but that isn't likely to happen until they are all probably teenagers, which wouldn't be for at least 10-12 years or so!

I think that's a weak reason. Why does it matter whether a plane flies over mountains, plains, cities or oceans? I do get why some people think they are safer over land ... but it's just as dumb as thinking you are safer on the ground than in the air.

Americans need to travel more. They might then understand what is truly wrong here and what is right.

 

[tirian]

There's something to be said about nostalgia. That's what Horizons was all about, right? A nostalgic look at visions of the future. I guess this theme has taken on the whole of EC.

Only the first half of Horizons was nostalgic. Beginning with the IMAX screens, the second half was a serious look at the future.

 

[tirian]

I think that's a weak reason. Why does it matter whether a plane flies over mountains, plains, cities or oceans? I do get why some people think they are safer over land ... but it's just as dumb as thinking you are safer on the ground than in the air.

Americans need to travel more. They might then understand what is truly wrong here and what is right.

I can't believe you're suggesting there's a better way to run a country than with career politicians and a Wall-Street-controlled economy.

 

[WDW1974]

Christmas had already began last week while I was out at some malls.

It's just plain sad ... I recall almost a decade ago walking into a Macy's on Labor Day Weekend and they were setting up their Christmas section. I'm sorry, but I'm thinking about Thanksgiving and what it will bring.

I'm just thrilled beyond words for all the lifestylers and bloggers and folks closing out the EPCOT International Drinking Fest will be able to 'celebrate Christmas' over Veteran's Day Weekend. Shouldn't the Spirit of Christmas be in our hearts every day of the year?

 

[WDW1974]

I can't believe you're suggesting there's a better way to run a country than with career politicians and a Wall-Street-controlled economy.

I have to be careful about expressing anything that might remotely upset anyone who thinks that we are the best nation on earth and we do everything better than everyone else in every way. Oh, and we aren't pansy socialists who believe in actually helping people ... you know, like Jesus wanted.

#Greedisgood #Notgivingyoumy$$$ #Diditallmyself

 

[BrianLo]

Speaking of Asia, got a more detailed note on the projects headed to TDR in the years to come. Small World, indeed, has structural issues that made relocating the attraction much easier to swallow. The artwork isn't final anymore than the MK's was. While the Beast's Castle is seen, one would be mistaken to jump to the conclusion that BoG is headed there. ... And Frozen fans ... well, they'll be getting their money's worth (and more!) at TDS.

Thanks for the continued updates. I noted you had sneakily edited some of that info into your original post a few days back.

You say no BoG is headed there, which makes sense, but I'm having a hard time understanding if you are implying that extends to B&TB as a whole? The other logical option would be pushing it aside for Tangled...

 

[WDW1974]

Wonder where the Marvel Experience falls? West of the Mississippi...

It has NOTHING to do with anything. The contract is for theme park rights, not traveling stage shows.

The Marvel Experience show will be playing in SoFl in Sunrise and Miami later this month.

 

[TeriofTerror]

It's just plain sad ... I recall almost a decade ago walking into a Macy's on Labor Day Weekend and they were setting up their Christmas section. I'm sorry, but I'm thinking about Thanksgiving and what it will bring.

I'm just thrilled beyond words for all the lifestylers and bloggers and folks closing out the EPCOT International Drinking Fest will be able to 'celebrate Christmas' over Veteran's Day Weekend. Shouldn't the Spirit of Christmas be in our hearts every day of the year?

I don't take holidays too seriously... except for Thanksgiving. I spend months experimenting on new recipes, weeks planning, and a solid week cooking. I usually take the whole week off work to devote to my culinary endeavors. I love Thanksgiving, and that fat man in red needs to back the hell off. I'll get to my Christmas baking soon enough, but first let me enjoy Thanksgiving!

 

[ProfSavage]

I don't take holidays too seriously... except for Thanksgiving. I spend months experimenting on new recipes, weeks planning, and a solid week cooking. I usually take the whole week off work to devote to my culinary endeavors. I love Thanksgiving, and that fat man in red needs to back the hell off. I'll get to my Christmas baking soon enough, but first let me enjoy Thanksgiving!

MARRY ME!

I thought I was the only one who took Thanksgiving that seriously...

 

[WDW1974]

Thanks for the continued updates. I noted you had sneakily edited some of that info into your original post a few days back.

You say no BoG is headed there, which makes sense, but I'm having a hard time understanding if you are implying that extends to B&TB as a whole? The other logical option would be pushing it aside for Tangled...

I try and not be sneaky about any editing, beyond changing a typo like spelling something wrong or the like. Much better than when stuff just disappears and I'm wondering if I even said something or not.

When I go back and add an edit, I make it clear why it's being edited.

Beauty and the Beast absolutely will be represented in the expanded Fantasyland in Tokyo.