The Spirited Back Nine ...

[AEfx]

Because, as McDonald's is now finding out, too many items on the menu is a bad thing. At WDW they discovered that too many restaurants is also a bad thing. The idea is to maximize profits while offering a reasonably healthy menu. I specifically chose Mickey D's for this comparison because that's a good comparable for the general quality of food offered at WDW. Mickey D's has realized that four different versions of the Quarter Pounder is too many. Now, you're going to have just one Quarter Pounder.

That's just not what is really happening, that USA Today article I believe you are going from didn't have all it's facts right (and ignored some of the ones it actually did get right). A couple of years ago they made the different QP's with different toppings different menu items, they didn't sell well. They took the most popular choice and plussed it up, it's now the Bacon Club something or other (that you can get with chicken or a QP that adds Big Mac sauce) that has been hugely successful (I admit, it's pretty darn good). That isn't going anywhere, they simply aren't putting it in the QP category even though that's essentially what it is.

And, as the article actually pointed out but didn't connect apparently, McDonalds is rolling out their "customize your burger" thing - in 2,000 stores to start (far more than their average test which is usually only in a few cities, which shows an intention to go forward with it) which will basically duplicate what was available before with the different QP's - but keep it as one menu item. It's the overall physical amount of individual menu items that is being reduced, but the options will essentially remain because you will then be able to create them - so in fact, folks will end up with more options when all is said and done.

In any case, too many menu items at McDonalds doesn't correlate at all to too many restaurant choices at WDW - you would be hard pressed to find anyone who would say they wanted less choice at WDW or would find it confusing in the same way that an overly large single menu presents. That's what leads folks off-site who don't trap themselves there.

WDW had way too many restaurants that were selling nothing more than variations of the same menu items so they closed those redundant eateries.

Really? I can get a taco salad somewhere else? Man, please tell me where!

I think folks have realized that when you have giant turkey legs, churros and fresh fruit available at the carts, the restaurants are not needed for an epicurean experience. Sitting down while eating is over rated.

Some people complain about the long wait in the standby queues but if you buy some cart food and eat it in the queue you're killing two birds with one stone and maximizing your time in the parks.

While undoubtedly those turkey legs are popular, I think there are an awful lot of folks (myself included) that think they are pretty disgusting even to look at, much less eat, and even among those that like them, I doubt they want to eat them every meal of their visit. I wish I knew what Disney had against hot dogs - a traditional stand food - they probably don't want to deal with toppings.

I also think you'd be in the severe minority about not wanting to be able to sit down and eat - not only because walking and eating isn't great for digestion, but also because it's one of the few times you can really take a break and sit down and relax in some air conditioning for a few minutes, reconnect, etc. It's fine once in awhile, or for a snack, but it's simply not what the norm of what folks want in a meal.


We all know what the real reason is - they want people to schedule their now ridiculously priced character meals, six months ahead of time. I never used to complain about WDW food prices, coming from the North East they seemed pretty reasonable compared to what we pay at home, but prices on a lot of these meals have nearly doubled in the last decade or so for barely OK buffet or pre-plated food.

 

[AEfx]

Well, I owned for many years, and sold at a break-even price. So there was no net investment cost outside of lost capital appreciation. My only costs were the fees, part of which were tax deductible.

By my math, I paid about $200 a night for on-site suite accommodations over the length of my ownership (18 years). I sold because I felt the upkeep was starting to wane. I also received free park tickets for the first 4 or five years. It also ensured I took annual vacations, which is a side benefit.

So I'm having a hard time seeing how this was a bad deal, unless of course I'm "very bad at math".

It's simple - you bought in a couple of decades ago. People who buy in now will not have nearly that same experience. It's a whole different ballgame now.

 

[ford91exploder]

For someone fitting the right profile, it's possible to reach the DVC break-even point reasonably quickly.

If someone visits WDW every year, always stays at the Grand Floridian when Disney does not offer room-only discounts, and pays cash for their VGF purchase, it should take less than 10 years to reach the break-even point.

However, those who might fit this financial profile represent a relatively narrow segment of all WDW visitors.

Instead, let's consider someone with the same financial means but who is willing to "downgrade" to the Yacht & Beach Club and stay when Disney offers its common 30% Deluxe Resort discount. For this person, the , break-even point is more than 20 years.

Now let's consider perhaps a more typical profile; someone without tens-of-thousands of dollars sitting in the bank, with good (but not great) credit, and willing to stay at any Deluxe Resort. Let's say they put 10% down and finance over 10 years. For them, they never will reach the break-even point before they membership expires.

Do you think Disney explains it like that to anyone?

Probably not, You will hit breakeven faster if you do multiple trips per year as well, I do a lot of travelling in my case enough so wife has a 'buddy pass' so airfare cost is basically a non-issue.

If you only do 5-7 days/yr you will NEVER break even and your breakeven point is strongly determined by point cost. I can sell all my points for a small profit at this point so other than opportunity cost financially it's a wash.

However for a NEW DVC member at GF/Poly/BLT I dont see how they will EVER break even between point cost and member fees.

 

[GoofGoof]

Really? I can get a taco salad somewhere else? Man, please tell me where!

Pecos Bills had the taco salad with the toppings bar thing and is right next to Totuga.

 

[GoofGoof]

For someone fitting the right profile, it's possible to reach the DVC break-even point reasonably quickly.

If someone visits WDW every year, always stays at the Grand Floridian when Disney does not offer room-only discounts, and pays cash for their VGF purchase, it should take less than 10 years to reach the break-even point.

However, those who might fit this financial profile represent a relatively narrow segment of all WDW visitors.

Instead, let's consider someone with the same financial means but who is willing to "downgrade" to the Yacht & Beach Club and stay when Disney offers its common 30% Deluxe Resort discount. For this person, the break-even point is more than 20 years.

Now let's consider perhaps a more typical profile; someone without tens-of-thousands of dollars sitting in the bank, with good (but not great) credit, and willing to stay at any Deluxe Resort. Let's say they put 10% down and finance over 10 years. For them, they never will reach the break-even point before they membership expires.

Do you think Disney explains it like that to anyone?

They also don't mention that resale can save you thousands.

 

[GrandRoyale]

DVC is meant for those who take trips often. It's also made to encourage people to visit the parks more often. For those that go frequently or those that want the option to go frequently, it's a good deal. Too expensive? Maybe, but not by a lot considering what you get (the villas are beautiful and convenient, and not having to worry about availability as much as others is a big benefit). People who own timeshares aren't "bad at math", people who belittle others for how they spend their money are just bad at being socially acceptable. The folks who buy into DVC and don't break even...they bought into a sales pitch, that's all. But everyone has ample opportunity to make it worthwhile so long as they use it as intended (that is, frequently).

 

[golden james]

I'm from the UK, we are looking at buying into gf dvc. Due to our life and work commitments the only time we can vacation isjanuary. For us to by gf dvc foe 2 weeks every jan for the next allotted yeas would cost me 35k gbp.

This jan we are going to gf for the same 2 weeks and it's costing with flights 7-8gbp. So for us it makes sence to buy and we will well get our money's worth out of dvc

 

[NearTheEars]

Well I sold the "nothing" and got my money back. So it's a bit more complex than you paint it.

I kept it as long as I felt it was a value. When it no longer appeared so, I sold it and got out. Sort of like the stock market, which depends on good management of companies, and may or may not be a winning proposition.

This is just a question:

What would have happened to your investment if WDW went out of business? (Yes I know, not likely)

I assume it's covered I the contract, but just wondering since you don't physically own the property, just points.

 

[GoofGoof]

This is just a question:

What would have happened to your investment if WDW went out of business? (Yes I know, not likely)

I assume it's covered I the contract, but just wondering since you don't physically own the property, just points.

When you buy into DVC you get a deed which lists a fractional share of a specific room in a specific resort. Legally not much different than any deeded timeshare property except your deed reverts back to Disney at the time of expiry.

 

[BernardandBianca]

Well, I owned for many years, and sold at a break-even price. So there was no net investment cost outside of lost capital appreciation. My only costs were the fees, part of which were tax deductible.

By my math, I paid about $200 a night for on-site suite accommodations over the length of my ownership (18 years). I sold because I felt the upkeep was starting to wane. I also received free park tickets for the first 4 or five years. It also ensured I took annual vacations, which is a side benefit.

So I'm having a hard time seeing how this was a bad deal, unless of course I'm "very bad at math".

Real numbers, at least as best as my memory allows.

We bought in the second year of Old Key West, paid $42/point for 150 points (minimum purchase). Bought another 200 points a couple of years later. Got LOS passes for everyone in our party, until 1999. Paid approx. $500/year maintenance fees for the 150, about $1100/year for the 350 points.

We felt we got our money's worth through 2000. Then things went to ****. No park passes. Maintenance fees became outrageous. We moved to Florida, close enough that we didn't need to stay overnight. We were using the points for cruises, so that we didn't lose them. (Prior to becoming aware/there being a rental market.) So we sold them. Got $75/point, factoring in closing costs. So we made money on the deal, and we made out on the purchase itself -- did the calculation in 1999, and figured out we saved money on our trips. BUT, the big benefit was the park passes. Those are what made it worthwhile, and what made the transaction pay off.

But keep in mind, a stay for a week at OKW in September cost something like 70 points, so with our original 150 points, we could stay for 2 weeks (with park passes). Which is what we did. Going forward, OKW couldn't change the overall point allocations, but they could (and did) raise maintenance fees, so that the benefit of owning became less and less.

So while I really really enjoyed being a member at Old Key West, it just didn't make sense financially for us.
And at the prices they want for Bay Lake Towers, Grand Floridian Villas, and what we've heard for the Poly Villas, those just do not compute financially. Save the money from the purchase, and allocate it to renting at your hotel of preference, which is actually what you are doing with a DVC "buy-in".

 

[the.dreamfinder]

LONG LIVE IGER THE ACQUIRER!!!

Photo Credit: @slashfilm

 

[bhg469]

LONG LIVE IGER THE ACQUIRER!!!
View attachment 77757
Photo Credit: @slashfilm

Oh.. he did? Too bad he didn't really do any of his own innovations.

 

[AEfx]

Pecos Bills had the taco salad with the toppings bar thing and is right next to Totuga.

Hehe, I know - I was replying to the "everything all had the same food everywhere so it doesn't matter if they are closed" thing. Since Pecos is one of the ones closed most of the time, and since everything is so generic and available anywhere, I was wondering/being sarcastic about where else I could get that.

 

[GoofGoof]

Hehe, I know - I was replying to the "everything all had the same food everywhere so it doesn't matter if they are closed" thing. Since Pecos is one of the ones closed most of the time, and since everything is so generic and available anywhere, I was wondering/being sarcastic about where else I could get that.

I didn't know Pecos was seasonal too. Both Tortuga Tavern and Pecos Bill have the taco salad. Tortuga is definitely seasonal.

 

[Phil12]

While undoubtedly those turkey legs are popular, I think there are an awful lot of folks (myself included) that think they are pretty disgusting even to look at, much less eat, and even among those that like them, I doubt they want to eat them every meal of their visit. I wish I knew what Disney had against hot dogs - a traditional stand food - they probably don't want to deal with toppings.

I also think you'd be in the severe minority about not wanting to be able to sit down and eat - not only because walking and eating isn't great for digestion, but also because it's one of the few times you can really take a break and sit down and relax in some air conditioning for a few minutes, reconnect, etc. It's fine once in awhile, or for a snack, but it's simply not what the norm of what folks want in a meal.

It's obvious to that you just want to discriminate against people like me.

 

[AEfx]

I didn't know Pecos was seasonal too. Both Tortuga Tavern and Pecos Bill have the taco salad. Tortuga is definitely seasonal.

That's totally my bad. I didn't realize that Pecos had added it. It's been awhile since I went there, didn't realized it wasn't a carbon copy of Tomorrowland Terrance's burger section anymore (though with Bacon, which is why I always went to Pecos when I could since TT didn't have bacon for the burgers last I had checked). I thought that Tortuga was the only place that had it.

 

[Mike S]

I didn't know Pecos was seasonal too. Both Tortuga Tavern and Pecos Bill have the taco salad. Tortuga is definitely seasonal.

I'm pretty sure Pecos isn't seasonal. It and Cosmic Rays are the QS restaurants that are always open, right?

 

[GoofGoof]

That's totally my bad. I didn't realize that Pecos had added it. It's been awhile since I went there, didn't realized it wasn't a carbon copy of Tomorrowland Terrance's burger section anymore (though with Bacon, which is why I always went to Pecos when I could since TT didn't have bacon for the burgers last I had checked). I thought that Tortuga was the only place that had it.

We found it by accident last year. The taco salad is my son's favorite thing to get but it was November so Tortuga was closed when we walked up. He wasn't too happy about it, but luckily a CM told me they had it at Pecos Bills too.

 

[AEfx]

It's obvious to that you just want to discriminate against people like me.

LOL, hey, I love meat on a stick as much as any guy. I know a lot of folks feel the same about hot dogs as I feel about Turkey legs, which was an alternate suggestion of mine. But if they were pork or beef on a stick, or at least had some variety - I'd be much more amenable to it. But those legs of turkey just do nothing for me as someone who really only eats turkey once a year, and only really likes it when it's got some cranberry sauce (jellied, not the fancy kind with junk in it LOL) and some mashed potatoes and stuffing to go along. And the thought of sitting on a curb in the heat and munching on one turns my stomach, LOL. And I'm a guy who can eat a burger for breakfast.

I'd be a lot better with the "buy something at a cart" stuff if again, there was any variety there. And it's hilarious that I am one complaining about variety - who is so predictable and unadventurous with food that when I go out to eat with friends they make a game of (very accurately) predicting what I'm going to pick off of the menu. I'm generally one of those "hey just feed me tourist food and I'm great" folks. But at this point, with prices going up so and variety going down so, and after years of saying "hey, the sit-downs aren't that bad priced" and now seeing it can be $40 for a okay at best buffet at CP, it's hitting a threshold of how low they can go.

 

[AEfx]

I'm pretty sure Pecos isn't seasonal. It and Cosmic Rays are the QS restaurants that are always open, right?

Yes, I was confusing Pecos and Tortuga, as well as had no idea that Pecos had added the taco salad.